The Agony of Buying New Skates

[MsConduct55 0]

I bought my skates at a LHS. I was screwed over by looking at the sizing charts and was wearing a size 7D when I first started. When I was sized, I found I wore a size 5D. First one was Nike and second was Bauer 8090. I paid $149 and it included baking and sharpening. My husband, who doesn't play hockey, bought his Vapor VIIIs from the same shop. We have both been happy. This doesn't mean we may look for my next pair online. (Nearest shop doesn't have much on display) Its harder when you don't live in a hockey hotbed, when you are in Florida. However, I may go to other proshops when I have a tournament (maybe go to Brandon or Estero). My LHS carries no Easton skates at all and only had one RBK skate. I just remember seeing lots of Bauers.

BTW, I would pay up to $25 dollars for fitting, if I wasn't buying the skates at my LHS.

[beerleaguecaptain 999]

It's a big difference in terms of speed but I get better turning and the balance point is better for me. Good luck in Poland!!! Your living the dream Keep it up!!!

glad you got used to the shorter blade. idk but skating on 272 now compared to 280 seems like a world of difference.

and im in warsaw now. im going to be going to school out here and trying to further my hockey career :)

cant hurt to try right? :)

[beerleaguecaptain 999]

My only problem with the shorter Bauer steel vs the CCM is that I get less glide and I'm a tad slower.

Why don't you go shallower...like 9/16" or 5/8" That might help....did wonders for my game

I'd love to but I actually skate with a 3/8. I'm not that good and need to feel the edges digging in. I tried going to a 1/2 and was really uncomfortable and kept losing my edge.

since you said mike. would this happen to be at the rip off of a store in iceland? the only thing they know how to do right in their is sharpen, otherwise you'll be paying extra for no reason at all.

I don't think it's too cool to trash a store like that. Yes, they do a great job sharpening... Mike happens to be a friend and IMO the best sharpener on LI. Regarding the prices, I have found them to be pretty competitive and they have some of the better stock on LI. I have bought sticks priced below the web and the skates were just about the same. If you buy onlinbe you deal with all of the other headaches we have discussed and you also need to pay to get the skates baked. Mike also happens to really know his stuff and gives great, honest advice. Also, the other stores on LI are not really priced that much differently. I know, I've shoipped in every one of them!!! We don't have too many good shops here.

[TJM254 0]

what store did you go to?

Sports Plus, the pro shop in Iceland (NHP). Mike is the best!

i here ya man. been through 3 pairs of bauers in a 9. ( i wear an 10.5/11 shoe). i decide to get fitted at the lhs....bauer size 8 he tells me. i go ya right. he brings them out and my foot slips right in toes jst brushing the cap.

im still not 100 % used to the shorter blade but im glad i switched

I was shocked that I liked the shorter, more rockered blade. One time I had my CCM profiled and the guy was supposed to put a 10' and instead did a 9'. I skated on it that game and felt like I was falling backwards all the time. My guess is that he did a crappy job profiling and put the balance point too far front or something. My only problem with the shorter Bauer steel vs the CCM is that I get less glide and I'm a tad slower. Since I wasn't exactly greased lightning before I figure it doesn't matter much.

BTW - moving to Poland???? Military??

That's crazy i go to the same pro shop...

Mike definitely knows his stuff, I can't remember if he helped me with my pair of XXV's last year but he has helped me with other stuff in the past...

[Chadd 916]

$10 is perfectly reasonable. We're going to a fitting fee it's just a matter of getting something for your time and the only people that have any issue with it are people who weren't going to buy anyway.

It's only worthwhile if the shop has every brand you're interested in trying. In my area each shop only has one or two brands and only a couple models of each brand so you would spend $40 or $50 in order to try on all of the various brands and models in your price range.

[beerleaguecaptain 999]

That's crazy i go to the same pro shop...

Mike definitely knows his stuff, I can't remember if he helped me with my pair of XXV's last year but he has helped me with other stuff in the past...

Hah... we've probably run into each other or played against each other!!!!

[Griff 2]

$10 is perfectly reasonable. We're going to a fitting fee it's just a matter of getting something for your time and the only people that have any issue with it are people who weren't going to buy anyway.

It's only worthwhile if the shop has every brand you're interested in trying. In my area each shop only has one or two brands and only a couple models of each brand so you would spend $40 or $50 in order to try on all of the various brands and models in your price range.

I can't see the justification of a fitting fee if a store only carries one or two brands. I'm off in hockey's hinterland but we still carry 6 different lines of skates, 2 each for easton and bauer and the ccm line and rbk line. While we don't carry the whole line in any of them between current model and leftover skates I can usually offer anyone at least 4 or 5 different skates in their size in the fall so I feel a fitting fee is ok and as I stated above if I don't have the right skate I'll waive the fee.

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

Exactly - it would have to be a full-service shop that can pull this off.

[dmancam72 0]

Your right I should have said out front about the cross-border. My son plays in Canada because it is over 4 hours away for the same level of hockey. At 4.25 a gallon for gas, I am still saving money by purchasing online. And I did state from the start that it was "unfortunate" that I try sizes on. This happens once a year. And only skates because he has the biggest feet and it's hard to judge whether or not he needs to go 1 or 2 sizes higher without checking first. But I do make purchases to offset the trial usage. Like going into a store and using the restroom, I ALWAYS purchase something to offset the use of the facility. Unlike most people.

I do, however, use No-Icing Sports faithfully for blade sharpening, and contouring and extra sets of blades because Bob is the best. A small shop that it the most friendly and helpful shop on earth. That is the LHS that needs our business not the chains.

Then why don't you see Bob to buy skates? He bitches enough on here about people shopping him.

Let me ask you this -

If that store had a fitting fee, would you do it? This has no bearing on you personally, it's just one of those things, you say you're in a rough spot because of the lack of stores, would you pay the store to fit your son properly even if you weren't buying from them?

Bob's store is 8 hours away, 1 way driving. I go to Bob by mail order for blades and such.

And for paying a fitting fee lets compare.

Mission skates at the store I would have to go to to purchase= $699.99 Canadian, converted to US dollar goes up to $709.87 plus %15 hsd comes to $816.35 with no $10.00 fitting fee.

Driving 16 hour round trip to Bob skates 399.99+ 115.00 gas, 20.00 meal for 2 (gotta eat sometime)=$534.99 before tax and a VERY long day.

$10.00 fitting fee+$399.99+4.95 handling=$414.94

Looks like yes, I would pay a fitting fee.

[Ogie Oglethorpe 14]

I had the same problem with the easton's, by the way (only with the Synnergy's 1300 and 1500). Lace bite too.

[hockeysc23 0]

Your right I should have said out front about the cross-border. My son plays in Canada because it is over 4 hours away for the same level of hockey. At 4.25 a gallon for gas, I am still saving money by purchasing online. And I did state from the start that it was "unfortunate" that I try sizes on. This happens once a year. And only skates because he has the biggest feet and it's hard to judge whether or not he needs to go 1 or 2 sizes higher without checking first. But I do make purchases to offset the trial usage. Like going into a store and using the restroom, I ALWAYS purchase something to offset the use of the facility. Unlike most people.

I do, however, use No-Icing Sports faithfully for blade sharpening, and contouring and extra sets of blades because Bob is the best. A small shop that it the most friendly and helpful shop on earth. That is the LHS that needs our business not the chains.

Then why don't you see Bob to buy skates? He bitches enough on here about people shopping him.

Let me ask you this -

If that store had a fitting fee, would you do it? This has no bearing on you personally, it's just one of those things, you say you're in a rough spot because of the lack of stores, would you pay the store to fit your son properly even if you weren't buying from them?

Bob's store is 8 hours away, 1 way driving. I go to Bob by mail order for blades and such.

And for paying a fitting fee lets compare.

Mission skates at the store I would have to go to to purchase= $699.99 Canadian, converted to US dollar goes up to $709.87 plus %15 hsd comes to $816.35 with no $10.00 fitting fee.

Driving 16 hour round trip to Bob skates 399.99+ 115.00 gas, 20.00 meal for 2 (gotta eat sometime)=$534.99 before tax and a VERY long day.

$10.00 fitting fee+$399.99+4.95 handling=$414.94

Looks like yes, I would pay a fitting fee.

It seems pretty obviously you don't either own your small business, work for one, or your parents do.

If everyone used the mindset you did (oh I am just one customer what harm could it do) soon there will be no LHS or other small businesses for people to get their information and ability to try on gear for free.

My parents owned a camera store. Countless times customers would come in ask tons of questions, play around with the camera and leave. Only to show up a couple weeks later trying to be accessories or ask for repair #'s for the camera that they didn't buy from my parents.

The profit margin on small businesses is razor thin thanks to online stores. The least you could do is compensate the store for using their service and products. Also the information, free sharpenings, fittings and the like usually pay for the difference themselves.

The single mother, only trying to provide for her son is a nice story but how about the parent that owns a store trying to provide for their family?

[sogaduch 0]

Second, the only LHS is a large chain store called Source for Sports which is in Canada because that is the closest store to where we live. They, in fact, are the ones who put all the "Mom and Pop" hockey shops out of business, not me. They are a large chain store who also sells baseball, lacrosse, and other sporting equipment so they are not in jeopardy of 1 person like myself who grabs a pair of skates off the shelf, puts my son's foot it in and feels for gap and then proceeds to purchase small things like tape, neckguards, or other necessities. When asked if I need help from the staff, I always reply no thank you, I'm just checking for sizes, and they go wait on someone else. They do not buy or sell used gear of any kind so getting used is no option in that way.

Just wanted to clarify Source for Sports is not a Large chain store its a buying group made up of hundreds of independent hockey stores across canada and we all joined up as a group to fend off from the big box stores like National, Rousseau/Hockey life by having our own lines of products(SMU) aswell as online stores too. Just wanted to clarify thats all and let you know that the stores not chain stores and we all have individual owners.

[dmancam72 0]

But see I am not referring to small family owned businesses that I would use 100%. If I had that option we wouldn't even be having this discussion. We're talking about a large chain store who has CEO's that wear suits that cost more than my car. The employess work for hourly wages not commissions. I know what you are saying and I agree with you, a small store that depends on sales to stay alive and have trouble competing with large stores that have more stock to choose from is hard enough. Walmart took care of that right here where I live. I just live at the end of the earth and have so many options to choose from and that's that. I have to live with it.

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

Sean's right - SFS is a buying group, not a chain.

[eric42434224 1]

But see I am not referring to small family owned businesses that I would use 100%. If I had that option we wouldn't even be having this discussion. We're talking about a large chain store who has CEO's that wear suits that cost more than my car. The employess work for hourly wages not commissions. I know what you are saying and I agree with you, a small store that depends on sales to stay alive and have trouble competing with large stores that have more stock to choose from is hard enough. Walmart took care of that right here where I live. I just live at the end of the earth and have so many options to choose from and that's that. I have to live with it.

You really should do your homework. You are using this description of the company to justify your actions, when it seems you know little to nothing about the structure, management, ownership, and operations of the company. You are going to do what you want to do, or feel you need to do, regardless of what we say here....that is obvious. What you should tyr to do in the future, is learn the facts before using assumptions to justify your actions. It is a slippery slope from justifying actions against a company using false assumptions, to justifying actions against people using false assumptions. I empathize with your situation, and the issues with travel/money/time vs. your desire to provide for your son the best equipment possible. However, you should also take into consideration that we do not live in a vacuum, and that our actions have consequenses, for yourself and others. To be a great human being, it takes a lot of work, and is a never ending endeavor....and in this case, you should be aware the ramifications your decisions have on others, and be sure that your reasons for your actions arent just made up in your head for the sole purpose of justifying them to yourself. Making up reasons to justify actions is a behavoir at the core of some of the most horrific behavoir in history. You obviously arent Hitler here or anything, but understand the danger in the justification behavoir you exhibit.

Sean's right - SFS is a buying group, not a chain.

Exaclty. There are like a co-op of Farmers banding together to get the most value for their business and product. All are small business owners with families....the farmers, and the sports store owners. I doubt they wear suits that are worth more that anyones car....except maybe the junker I had in college.

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

That was a bit too much.

She's not a horrible human being and I don't think anyone on here should judge her.

I searched by her zip code and she's right, there's no LHSs in her area and a bunch across the border. She's in a tough spot. Do I agree with what she's doing and how she carries on about it? No. But do I understand her situation? Yes.

[eric42434224 1]

That was a bit too much.

She's not a horrible human being and I don't think anyone on here should judge her.

I searched by her zip code and she's right, there's no LHSs in her area and a bunch across the border. She's in a tough spot. Do I agree with what she's doing and how she carries on about it? No. But do I understand her situation? Yes.

No, No, No....you misunderstand. I was by no means calling her a horrible human being. In fact, I empathize with her financial/travel/time issues.

My only point was to be honest with yourself in that your decisions have effects outside of just yourself, and to make sure you arent just making negative things up about someone or something to justify your actions.

We have all, and continue everyday, to do things like this. My point is that we should at least strive to be better, and take these points into consideration....not just when being a consumer, but when being a friend, spouse, team mate, etc.

Again, not trying to say she is horrible, and likely she is probably very nice. This discussion just brings up some of these points that I think about (like the incorrect assumtions about the hockey store, or incorrect assumptions made about people of certain ethnic backgrounds....which a loved one of mine is currently having an issue with).

BUT...probably too deep a subject for a hockey forum, so I respectfully digress and bow out.

[Andoy 5]

Just wanted to say that my LHS is a SFS store (jbyun works there). Now i'm not saying that I haven't purchased equipment online (never skates though), but my experience of buying skates there everytime has always been pleasant. Skates might be a bit more expensive, but the service you get in return far outweighs the costs. Not once did they charge me for any service done to my skates (aside from adding shims) like punching, baking, stretching and I understand that most shops charge extra for that.

I understand why some people go thru online retailers to get stuff (no LHS nearby, international orders and what not) and those are pretty valid reasons.

What I don't understand is people with great LHS around them ordering one95s online to save some money...and then baking them at home, melting/burning the holders/skate and then trying to get a warranty claim on them.

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

Yeah, but she's getting the double-whammy as she's buying across the border.

That was a bit too much.

She's not a horrible human being and I don't think anyone on here should judge her.

I searched by her zip code and she's right, there's no LHSs in her area and a bunch across the border. She's in a tough spot. Do I agree with what she's doing and how she carries on about it? No. But do I understand her situation? Yes.

No, No, No....you misunderstand. I was by no means calling her a horrible human being. In fact, I empathize with her financial/travel/time issues.

My only point was to be honest with yourself in that your decisions have effects outside of just yourself, and to make sure you arent just making negative things up about someone or something to justify your actions.

We have all, and continue everyday, to do things like this. My point is that we should at least strive to be better, and take these points into consideration....not just when being a consumer, but when being a friend, spouse, team mate, etc.

Again, not trying to say she is horrible, and likely she is probably very nice. This discussion just brings up some of these points that I think about (like the incorrect assumtions about the hockey store, or incorrect assumptions made about people of certain ethnic backgrounds....which a loved one of mine is currently having an issue with).

BUT...probably too deep a subject for a hockey forum, so I respectfully digress and bow out.

I get what you're saying, just sounded a bit patronizing.

[vectoranalysisgo 3]

I just went through the same thing- two years ago I bought used Bauers (XI's) in a size 7, because they felt right in the store.. skated on them for over a year and then decided to get new ones.. the guy in the shop measured my foot as a 6.5, so I went down a half size, tried on the same exact pair/model/year/etc (because they happened to have some left in stock at a nice sale price) and they felt nice, so I bought them. Shortly thereafter, I noticed my naturally large heel bumps started to grow, and 6 months later I decide I've got a serious case of Haglund's and need to invest in some skates and a proper fitting..

So today I went into a shop convinced I wouldn't leave with Bauer Vapors, and after spending over an hour trying several brands and sizes, couldn't stand anything but the Vapors.. but a size 6! Seems I'd been "comfortable" in the too-large sizes because they allowed my feet to slide forward and relieve the pressure on my bone spurs but I really needed to get a proper size 6 and have them punched/stretched in just the right spot.. which is what I did... so I walked out with my third pair of Bauers (XXV this time), a whole size smaller than my originals, with some great custom punching..

I will chime in to say, however, that the issue of shopping stores and ordering online can be so touchy- I don't see how anyone can judge too harshly. To intentionally use a salesperson's time with no intention of buying doesn't seem like a terrible thing to do- provided that you're up front with the salesperson about it- and if you're asked to pay a fee for the fitting, then that seems entirely appropriate because you've received a valuable service. But assuming that's the situation, how can you blame someone who simply can't afford to purchase from a local shop but needs the equipment? We'd all prefer they support small business, but- there are a lot of instances where we have to choose between what we think would be ideal and what we can actually afford or want to pay extra for (like more expensive organic foods or etc..?)

I live in Pittsburgh but happened to be visiting family in Massachusetts this week and intentionally planned to visit a shop here to buy new skates, even though there are two smaller local shops near my home in Pittsburgh.. because I knew I'd get better service and have access to a larger selection. Is it shitty of me to have supported the Massachusetts small business than my local Pittsburgh businesses?

Regardless, I think for people who would consider shopping online just for cheaper prices- I will always argue that, once you factor in sharpening, radius profiling, baking, etc etc (which would likely be free or discounted at a shop and an extra cost if you buy online), it rarely seems like a better deal than you'd find in a smaller local shop.

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

Good post.

[boganz45 0]

12D Nike Shox, AirMax 360, Adidas Samba, Superstar, Asics Gel Kayano.

9.5D CCM Vector 10 SE Ice and Inline.

Believe it.

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

...which is why when they say "half a size down from your SHOE size" it doesn't mean sneakers, which people wear comfortably.

I wear a 13 sneaker, a 12 dress shoe and a 10.5 skate.

[Jeff 0]

But see I am not referring to small family owned businesses that I would use 100%. If I had that option we wouldn't even be having this discussion. We're talking about a large chain store who has CEO's that wear suits that cost more than my car. The employess work for hourly wages not commissions. I know what you are saying and I agree with you, a small store that depends on sales to stay alive and have trouble competing with large stores that have more stock to choose from is hard enough. Walmart took care of that right here where I live. I just live at the end of the earth and have so many options to choose from and that's that. I have to live with it.

You really should do your homework. You are using this description of the company to justify your actions, when it seems you know little to nothing about the structure, management, ownership, and operations of the company. You are going to do what you want to do, or feel you need to do, regardless of what we say here....that is obvious. What you should tyr to do in the future, is learn the facts before using assumptions to justify your actions. It is a slippery slope from justifying actions against a company using false assumptions, to justifying actions against people using false assumptions. I empathize with your situation, and the issues with travel/money/time vs. your desire to provide for your son the best equipment possible. However, you should also take into consideration that we do not live in a vacuum, and that our actions have consequenses, for yourself and others. To be a great human being, it takes a lot of work, and is a never ending endeavor....and in this case, you should be aware the ramifications your decisions have on others, and be sure that your reasons for your actions arent just made up in your head for the sole purpose of justifying them to yourself. Making up reasons to justify actions is a behavoir at the core of some of the most horrific behavoir in history. You obviously arent Hitler here or anything, but understand the danger in the justification behavoir you exhibit.

Sean's right - SFS is a buying group, not a chain.

Exaclty. There are like a co-op of Farmers banding together to get the most value for their business and product. All are small business owners with families....the farmers, and the sports store owners. I doubt they wear suits that are worth more that anyones car....except maybe the junker I had in college.

Dude, get over yourself. Enough with the condescending attitude. Didn't you recently post about buying Eastons on ebay and possibly returning them to your LHS for a different size in order to save money? Oh, it's ok because you have spent a couple $$$ there before, know the store manager and are going to buy him a 12-pack and Taco Bell. What about that business owner and the shipping fees, restocking/etc. fees he is going to have to pay should the manager do the deal for you? And check out Godwin's law while you are at it...

Back on topic, I wear a 13 in Nikes, 11.5 or 12 in dress shoes, and 9.5/10 in NBH skates. I would pay up to $20 for a fitting if the place had a full selection and I knew I was going to buy elsewhere.

[epstud74 24]

I just went through the same thing- two years ago I bought used Bauers (XI's) in a size 7, because they felt right in the store.. skated on them for over a year and then decided to get new ones.. the guy in the shop measured my foot as a 6.5, so I went down a half size, tried on the same exact pair/model/year/etc (because they happened to have some left in stock at a nice sale price) and they felt nice, so I bought them. Shortly thereafter, I noticed my naturally large heel bumps started to grow, and 6 months later I decide I've got a serious case of Haglund's and need to invest in some skates and a proper fitting..

So today I went into a shop convinced I wouldn't leave with Bauer Vapors, and after spending over an hour trying several brands and sizes, couldn't stand anything but the Vapors.. but a size 6! Seems I'd been "comfortable" in the too-large sizes because they allowed my feet to slide forward and relieve the pressure on my bone spurs but I really needed to get a proper size 6 and have them punched/stretched in just the right spot.. which is what I did... so I walked out with my third pair of Bauers (XXV this time), a whole size smaller than my originals, with some great custom punching..

I will chime in to say, however, that the issue of shopping stores and ordering online can be so touchy- I don't see how anyone can judge too harshly. To intentionally use a salesperson's time with no intention of buying doesn't seem like a terrible thing to do- provided that you're up front with the salesperson about it- and if you're asked to pay a fee for the fitting, then that seems entirely appropriate because you've received a valuable service. But assuming that's the situation, how can you blame someone who simply can't afford to purchase from a local shop but needs the equipment? We'd all prefer they support small business, but- there are a lot of instances where we have to choose between what we think would be ideal and what we can actually afford or want to pay extra for (like more expensive organic foods or etc..?)

I live in Pittsburgh but happened to be visiting family in Massachusetts this week and intentionally planned to visit a shop here to buy new skates, even though there are two smaller local shops near my home in Pittsburgh.. because I knew I'd get better service and have access to a larger selection. Is it shitty of me to have supported the Massachusetts small business than my local Pittsburgh businesses?

Regardless, I think for people who would consider shopping online just for cheaper prices- I will always argue that, once you factor in sharpening, radius profiling, baking, etc etc (which would likely be free or discounted at a shop and an extra cost if you buy online), it rarely seems like a better deal than you'd find in a smaller local shop.

The only reason I can find for shopping online is to get an item you really need that isnt readily available anyplace local..If you already know it works for you or fits you..Many times you're more than likely to pay MORE online than at your LHS. I bought a pair of Jofa 9025 elbows for $15 a month ago..they're selling for at least $30 online plus shipping..Plus it is nice to build a relationship with the owners and employees of your LHS and the more you shop there, the more they'll do for you in many cases..I'm lucky there are places like HockeyGiant within 25 minutes of me along with local hockey shops, but I'd only go to HG to get a sale priced stick (which they often dont have in stock) or a practice jersey etc..

But see I am not referring to small family owned businesses that I would use 100%. If I had that option we wouldn't even be having this discussion. We're talking about a large chain store who has CEO's that wear suits that cost more than my car. The employess work for hourly wages not commissions. I know what you are saying and I agree with you, a small store that depends on sales to stay alive and have trouble competing with large stores that have more stock to choose from is hard enough. Walmart took care of that right here where I live. I just live at the end of the earth and have so many options to choose from and that's that. I have to live with it.

You really should do your homework. You are using this description of the company to justify your actions, when it seems you know little to nothing about the structure, management, ownership, and operations of the company. You are going to do what you want to do, or feel you need to do, regardless of what we say here....that is obvious. What you should tyr to do in the future, is learn the facts before using assumptions to justify your actions. It is a slippery slope from justifying actions against a company using false assumptions, to justifying actions against people using false assumptions. I empathize with your situation, and the issues with travel/money/time vs. your desire to provide for your son the best equipment possible. However, you should also take into consideration that we do not live in a vacuum, and that our actions have consequenses, for yourself and others. To be a great human being, it takes a lot of work, and is a never ending endeavor....and in this case, you should be aware the ramifications your decisions have on others, and be sure that your reasons for your actions arent just made up in your head for the sole purpose of justifying them to yourself. Making up reasons to justify actions is a behavoir at the core of some of the most horrific behavoir in history. You obviously arent Hitler here or anything, but understand the danger in the justification behavoir you exhibit.

Sean's right - SFS is a buying group, not a chain.

Exaclty. There are like a co-op of Farmers banding together to get the most value for their business and product. All are small business owners with families....the farmers, and the sports store owners. I doubt they wear suits that are worth more that anyones car....except maybe the junker I had in college.

Dude, get over yourself. Enough with the condescending attitude. Didn't you recently post about buying Eastons on ebay and possibly returning them to your LHS for a different size in order to save money? Oh, it's ok because you have spent a couple $$$ there before, know the store manager and are going to buy him a 12-pack and Taco Bell. What about that business owner and the shipping fees, restocking/etc. fees he is going to have to pay should the manager do the deal for you? And check out Godwin's law while you are at it...

Back on topic, I wear a 13 in Nikes, 11.5 or 12 in dress shoes, and 9.5/10 in NBH skates. I would pay up to $20 for a fitting if the place had a full selection and I knew I was going to buy elsewhere.

Nikes fit narrow, especially their Shox running shoes. I'm willing to bet you're a 13 because you cannot find a 11.5-12 wide at the store..