Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[kr580 2]

4 hours ago, JR Boucicaut said:

The common offerings are: 90/50, 90/75, 100/50, 100/75.  Get the 95 variants to bridge the gap (95/50. 95/75)

I use Ruby myself.  

Eh, it all depends if you're sharpening kid's skates.  For now, the U-12 is fine.

Not really.  I've had that machine for what, 10 years, without any problems to speak of.  I'm going to most likely upgrade at some point to a full portable or a single head.  

Thanks JR. I know a lot of the parents in our youth organization so I would get a lot of business from them if I ever opened the door. Sounds like maybe if it's not too much more it'd be worth it to future-proof myself a bit?

1 hour ago, koresh38 said:

Kr580, 95/70 is quite popular too. From my small experience (kids and my teammates) FBVs are not for everyone. Had to buy 9/16, 5/8, 3/4. Keep it in mind if you want "side sharpening business"  

Ruby is my favorite. Buy one extra for training purposes. My first two finished in no time-). When you get a grip the wheels will hold for longer.

Upgraded X-14 holder is more versatile if you ask me. But I do not understand much in them so no help on this one.

You will need an edge level, honing stone and Fine Shine. (I just bought the Accessory kit - was cheaper than buying separately). They also have Black magic honing stone for coated steel but I have not tried it yet. Again, you might need it for some clients (I use leather one at the moment).

Have my X-02 for a year now. Like it more and more. Enough for my requirements (3-5 pairs a day max). 

 

I would definitely get some ROH spinners for sure. I was definitely going to get the accessory kit. I'd get all the stuff in there anyway I'd assume so might as well save some bucks. And yes, I'd make a leather hone for the black/mirror runner varieties. Thanks for the help!

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

13 minutes ago, kr580 said:

Thanks JR. I know a lot of the parents in our youth organization so I would get a lot of business from them if I ever opened the door. Sounds like maybe if it's not too much more it'd be worth it to future-proof myself a bit?

The X-02 will definitely be able to handle your volume on a hardware standpoint - it's a strong machine.

[kr580 2]

11 minutes ago, JR Boucicaut said:

The X-02 will definitely be able to handle your volume on a hardware standpoint - it's a strong machine.

Sorry, I meant the holder, the X-14. Didn't specify, my bad. It looks like the MSRP is just $50 more.

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

If just that, sure.  Especially dealing with a youth org chances are you want to cover all of your bases.

[sbecks72986 51]

On 4/19/2019 at 11:27 AM, koresh38 said:

Also anyone tried The Black Magic Hand Hone from Blackstone. Is it suitable for coated Step steel? Is it worth the money?

https://blackstonesport.com/en/product/black-magic

If you email step steel you can get their rubber hone that’s meant for black steel, I have it if I remover correctly it’s about same price may have been a couple bucks cheaper

[sbecks72986 51]

On 2/5/2018 at 8:26 PM, koresh38 said:

Chiefs, in theory yes. But talking to the professional sharpener who is doing FBV for ages. He advises vice versa do the Pitch knob and do not touch the others when you calibrated them. Works for me much better than adjusting the sides.  

I would never touch the pitch knob for FBV especially. FBV is putting a specific shape in the steel adjusting the pitch knob is actually altering the shape by pitching the angle of the entire blade. ROH prob wouldn’t be as big a deal bc it’s one consistent shape. For FBV you should have blade perfectly perpendicular to wheel and only be adjusting the height up and down of the front and back of blade, whoever told you they only use the pitch knob for FBV i would never let them do my skates. That’s why I do my own bc there’s too many people that think they know what their doing and don’t.

[koresh38 10]

19 minutes ago, sbecks72986 said:

I would never touch the pitch knob for FBV especially. FBV is putting a specific shape in the steel adjusting the pitch knob is actually altering the shape by pitching the angle of the entire blade. ROH prob wouldn’t be as big a deal bc it’s one consistent shape. For FBV you should have blade perfectly perpendicular to wheel and only be adjusting the height up and down of the front and back of blade, whoever told you they only use the pitch knob for FBV i would never let them do my skates. That’s why I do my own bc there’s too many people that think they know what their doing and don’t.

I thought the pitch knob for altering the angle and putting the blade perfectly perpendicular to have the edges even. I do not know any other option to adjust it. May be it is ok if you sharpen only one pair of skates all the time but I have different skates every day and it is impossible to use only front and back adjustments.  May be more experienced users can comment on this but I do not agree with you on this one.

[kr580 2]

Couple more questions while I'm thinking about it:

1. The pitch knob I imagine tilts the blade up or down at an angle, breaking the blade's coplanarness (word?) from the wheel. Does this need to be adjusted when raising or lowering the side knobs, or does the pitch angle stay the same no matter the height of the side knobs? I'm coming from a Blademaster with just the left/right height adjustment rods so this is a little foreign to me.

2. How do you deal with replacing crossgrinding jobs without the vertical crossgrinding wheel. Say I get someone's skates that are way off level or have big missing chunks that need to be ground away, is there a certain method for truing them up reliably? Do you just make sure they're clamped level and go at it until the edges are ground away to be level?

Edit: 3. Are there any radiusing options for the X02? Does the Shaper System fit the X02? 

Edited October 3, 2019 by kr580

[sbecks72986 51]

On 10/2/2019 at 9:29 PM, koresh38 said:

I thought the pitch knob for altering the angle and putting the blade perfectly perpendicular to have the edges even. I do not know any other option to adjust it. May be it is ok if you sharpen only one pair of skates all the time but I have different skates every day and it is impossible to use only front and back adjustments.  May be more experienced users can comment on this but I do not agree with you on this one.

If the holder is set to be perpendicular to wheel you never need to adjust it. The edges are adjusted for evenness by raising or lowering the height of the blade. If you’re doing FBV and you adjust the pitch you don’t just raise or lower the height you’re moving the inside and outside edges closer or further from the wheel has nothing to do with height. This is extreme example but just imagine the holder being on a 45 degree angle in relation to grinding wheel would that make the proper FBV shape on the blade, it would not, the flat part wouldn’t even be flat it would be pitched, that’s why unless somethings wrong with your machine and grinding wheel you shouldn’t touch the pitch, that’s why it says in manual that holder comes perpendicular to wheel and shouldn’t be touched. 

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

I’ve spoken directly to Blackstone about the pitch knob and they themselves say there are times where it is inevitable that you have to move the pitch knob, even when the machine is operating properly.  They do suggest you adjust it as infrequently as possible though.  In my personal experience I have had to adjust the pitch knob in the past depending on skate and holder alignment.

[VegasHockey 1280]

2 hours ago, shoot_the_goalie said:

I’ve spoken directly to Blackstone about the pitch knob and they themselves say there are times where it is inevitable that you have to move the pitch knob, even when the machine is operating properly.  They do suggest you adjust it as infrequently as possible though.  In my personal experience I have had to adjust the pitch knob in the past depending on skate and holder alignment.

I think the entire time I have been shaprening skates I have only had to adjust the pitch knob when someone else screwed with it and messed up the pitch. Otherwise I nvever needed to touch it.

[shoot_the_goalie 281]

I do not adjust the pitch knob very often.  Pretty rare actually.  However, I do remember needing to do it on a skate which I suspected either the blade or the holder was misaligned.

[koresh38 10]

On 10/5/2019 at 4:20 PM, sbecks72986 said:

If the holder is set to be perpendicular to wheel you never need to adjust it. The edges are adjusted for evenness by raising or lowering the height of the blade. If you’re doing FBV and you adjust the pitch you don’t just raise or lower the height you’re moving the inside and outside edges closer or further from the wheel has nothing to do with height. This is extreme example but just imagine the holder being on a 45 degree angle in relation to grinding wheel would that make the proper FBV shape on the blade, it would not, the flat part wouldn’t even be flat it would be pitched, that’s why unless somethings wrong with your machine and grinding wheel you shouldn’t touch the pitch, that’s why it says in manual that holder comes perpendicular to wheel and shouldn’t be touched. 

After your rather brave and straightforward statement I investigated the matter further and found “Wissota 3-D Skate Holder” manual. It is a shame Blackstone does not have similar (or I am not aware of it). It is approx. 10 pages thick so I quote just the parts I found useful to our discussion.

1.      The holder should be set up to the “crown” of a radius shape. This is not the middle of the grinding wheel but the centre of the custom shape as it appears on the grinding wheel.  (we do not discuss the set up here so I skip this part).

2.      Now word by word: “Skate blades are vary in thickness. Imagine a table saw set to a cut 4” in half. If you put a 5” board into a saw set up to cut 4” you will be off. Once you are set up, the same thing will happen to your skate holder if you now put in thicker or thinner blades. Goalie blades are thicker than player skates, and figure blades are thicker than goalie. Some figure blades have a normal figure blade mounted into a really thick chassis. Even blades of the same style and brand can vary due to manufacturing tolerance.

For traditional radius shapes only (turning tilt dial only).

To correct a high top edge , turn ONLY the rear tilt dial upward….

For Non traditional (Flat bottom) shapes (turning three dials equally)

To correct a high top edge, turn ALL THREE DIALS DOWN EQUALLY…”

3.      Then in most common errors part:

“Once I get my skate holder to produce a perfect skate I should leave it set that way”

This statement is false!

The reason this statement is false is that skates vary in thickness much more than you would expect. Variations in thickness occur between different brands. I have micrometered one brand at 123! Even if you stay with one brand, manufacturing tolerances can vary widely.”

End of quote.

 Also from my experience and experience of others you should consider the weight of the boot (which can vary hugely) and the sharpening dust which has the bad habit of gathering in all inconvenient parts of the machine and the holder.  

Just out of the interest, how many skates do you do in one day? What is your experience in sharpening?

Edited October 6, 2019 by koresh38

[koresh38 10]

On 4/20/2019 at 3:03 PM, JR Boucicaut said:

Perfect.  So what you want to do is set some steel on there, clamp it, then carve a notch on top of the bolt.  (I always have mine at 6 o'clock)  

So now, all you have to do is unclamp and slide the boot or steel out.  You won't have to mess with that bolt at that point.

Now if you have to do some goal skates, turn the bolt clockwise to accommodate the 4mm steel - chances are the notch will be either at 9 o'clock or 12 o'clock - then you'll be able to clamp.  Adjust your holder, then reset it all when you're done.

Thank you! It was only today when I had a chance to try it with goalie blades. Worked out well. The only thing had to do 25-30 clicks clockwise. And as per my message above tilt three dials now...

Edited October 12, 2019 by koresh38

[OpenIceHit42 2]

I’ve been skating on a 100/50 FBV for the past 3-1/2 and my local Pure Hockey has gone to the Pro Sharp and removed their Blackstone machine; any recommendations on something comparable?

[JR Boucicaut 3797]

31 minutes ago, OpenIceHit42 said:

I’ve been skating on a 100/50 FBV for the past 3-1/2 and my local Pure Hockey has gone to the Pro Sharp and removed their Blackstone machine; any recommendations on something comparable?

Not really if all they're offering is standard cuts.  

You can go see Greg and Jeff over at Total Game Plan Sports - they're former Total Hockey guys over in St. Charles; they have a Blackstone machine.  Tell them I sent ya.

Or you can send them to me.  Refugees welcome.

[dravenass 0]

Hi,

does anyone have any spinners or wheels for an x01 they don’t want or need anymore?  If so please lmk.  I just bought a used one and could use some accessories since.  Thanks!

[asgoodasdead 74]

On 10/16/2019 at 9:40 AM, OpenIceHit42 said:

I’ve been skating on a 100/50 FBV for the past 3-1/2 and my local Pure Hockey has gone to the Pro Sharp and removed their Blackstone machine; any recommendations on something comparable?

i hope my local Pure Hockey doesn't do the same. but thankfully, i have 2 other places i can get FBV done around here.

[VegasHockey 1280]

41 minutes ago, asgoodasdead said:

i hope my local Pure Hockey doesn't do the same. but thankfully, i have 2 other places i can get FBV done around here.

Im honestly not a huge FBV fan as I have never really noticed much of a difference. I guess if you skate on a more aggressive hollow it would be more noticable but at 3/4" - 1" I see very minimal benefits. 

[asgoodasdead 74]

9 minutes ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

Im honestly not a huge FBV fan as I have never really noticed much of a difference. I guess if you skate on a more aggressive hollow it would be more noticable but at 3/4" - 1" I see very minimal benefits. 

yeah, i went from 5/8" to 100/50 or X7 and the difference was insane. almost fell on my face and had to skate really carefully for my first few shifts til i got used to it and been flying ever since. no way i could go back to a regular hollow

Edited October 31, 2019 by asgoodasdead

[VegasHockey 1280]

5 hours ago, asgoodasdead said:

yeah, i went from 5/8" to 100/50 or X7 and the difference was insane. almost fell on my face and had to skate really carefully for my first few shifts til i got used to it and been flying ever since. no way i could go back to a regular hollow

FBV 100/50 and the X7 are not really the same, per se. Same as the Sparx FIRE 5/8 vs these as well. 

[asgoodasdead 74]

14 minutes ago, SkateWorksPNW said:

FBV 100/50 and the X7 are not really the same, per se. Same as the Sparx FIRE 5/8 vs these as well. 

really? I was told X7 was the closest equivalent and I dont really notice a difference  please educate me

[start_today 770]

TLDR; Fire/BFD is the Hydrox to FBV’s Oreo. Similar, but fundamentally and demonstrably not the same, and most people prefer Oreo. 

This blog post from Sparx does a decent job of explaining the differences of ROH, Fire/BFD, and FBV. Blade master BFD appears to be the same as Fire. 

https://blogs.sparxhockey.com/hollow-shape-and-depth

In an old post, JR explains BFD as being kind of the half way point between ROH and FBV. BFD came first, but wasn’t a big enough difference from ROH, so people didn’t go for it, and it was essentially shelved. Once Blackstone FBV got popular, Blademaster pushed the BFD to play catch up.

So many acronyms! 

[VegasHockey 1280]

1 hour ago, start_today said:

TLDR; Fire/BFD is the Hydrox to FBV’s Oreo. Similar, but fundamentally and demonstrably not the same, and most people prefer Oreo. 

This blog post from Sparx does a decent job of explaining the differences of ROH, Fire/BFD, and FBV. Blade master BFD appears to be the same as Fire. 

https://blogs.sparxhockey.com/hollow-shape-and-depth

In an old post, JR explains BFD as being kind of the half way point between ROH and FBV. BFD came first, but wasn’t a big enough difference from ROH, so people didn’t go for it, and it was essentially shelved. Once Blackstone FBV got popular, Blademaster pushed the BFD to play catch up.

So many acronyms! 

This is for those who have never heard of Hydrox.... 

https://foodcrumbles.com/hydrox-vs-oreo-cookies/

[mnpucker 33]

Coming up on my 10th year with the X02, pretty sure if these were serialized I am between 1-10.  My boy was 10 when I got it, now a freshman in college, time flies.   100/50 has suited us all fine over the years.  His new home ice is very hard, 100/50 does not seem to give him enough bite anymore.  I need to figure out the right FBV quick, season is started.   I am considering 100/75 but wanted to get some opinions. Any thoughts on where to go to get more bite without sacrificing too much glide?

The $40 shipping cost for small order is ridiculous, I haven't read every page of this thread so I am sure that is old news.

He also has black edge steel.  I see mention of leather homes and the black rubber hone by Blackstone, any input?  been using leather but I am not sure if it is working.  I kind of feel the lack of edge may be because I am not using a stone anymore.  I may have to order more stuff just to get to the $150 free shipping and that rubber hone might get me there if it will be effective, cAn anyone comment on the effedtisvemess of the rubber hone?

I continue to tell people the purchase of this sharpener was the single most meaningful purchase I have made.  The benefits are many and the quality and convenience of sharpening are at the top.

 

Edited November 2, 2019 by mnpucker