Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[rachael7 1]

OK, so I was able to fix my the no-clicking issue, thanks guys.

I was studying the manual for the X-01, and it says as regards to installing the mini spinner "Be certain to install the mini spinner so that the snap ring inside the mini spinner is visible; when the spinner screw is viewed from the threaded end".

I have no idea what this means. I understand that the snap ring is the "C" shaped ring but find the rest of this to be rather hard to follow.

I *think* they mean that the inscription on the spinner (e.g. Blackstone 90/75) needs to be visible when the spinner screw (only) is removed, i.e. the inscription should be facing upwards. Is this correct ?

That is correct. When putting the spinner onto the screw, the inscription side goes on first.

[NuggyBuggy 0]

I *think* they mean that the inscription on the spinner (e.g. Blackstone 90/75) needs to be visible when the spinner screw (only) is removed, i.e. the inscription should be facing upwards. Is this correct ?

That is correct. When putting the spinner onto the screw, the inscription side goes on first.

Thanks Rachael.

Arggh, that was my last idea. After spending another hour grinding down my blades :lol: I just can't get the edges even. I've checked that the skate is not interfering with the holder. The bottom edge of my blades keep ending up high, the instructions say that means the blade is too low, but no amount of raising the blade seems to fix the problem.

I am just about to give up on this for now. I'm going to offer my sharpener to my coach and see if he can do anything with this thing. There's either something wrong with my machine or there's something wrong with me :lol:

[chiefs17 2]

Nuggy, can you get good results with your adult skate holder, or is it both holders that are giving you problems? I guess I'm trying to figure out if it's the holder, or the machine that's giving you trouble.

[NuggyBuggy 0]

Nuggy, can you get good results with your adult skate holder, or is it both holders that are giving you problems? I guess I'm trying to figure out if it's the holder, or the machine that's giving you trouble.

chiefs17 - I only have the one child tri-lie holder, which Blackstone told me was equally usable on child and adult skates.

Anyways, I have some good news. In bed last night I realized that I have been holding the boot while doing my passes - my holder does not have the handles that the Blackstone website shows. I realized a little weight on the boot could well cause the blade to not be square while passing over the wheel even if it is setup properly. This might have been obvious to the experienced sharpener but not to this newbie.

I did a few passes today and was actually able to get things fairly close - in fact, I was able to get the *top* edge a little high, which I *never* was able to do. I took my sharpener home from the cottage and am hopefully going to work on it some more this week. I hope that this was, indeed, my problem. I am very, very happy about this.

Which leads me to my next question: how close is close enough in terms of getting the edges level ? Will a pro make more passes if one edge is half a thousandth off ?

[chiefs17 2]

Hey, that's good news you're figuring it out! As far as level edges, I use the Bat Gage and I try to get 1/2 a tick mark or less difference between edges. I don't know how many thousandths of an inch that is. If it's any more than 1/2 a tick mark I make an adjustment and do another couple of passes.

[NuggyBuggy 0]

Hey, that's good news you're figuring it out! As far as level edges, I use the Bat Gage and I try to get 1/2 a tick mark or less difference between edges. I don't know how many thousandths of an inch that is. If it's any more than 1/2 a tick mark I make an adjustment and do another couple of passes.

chiefs17 - I owe a lot to the continued encouragement of you and others. Thank you, I probably would have given up without a steady stream of ideas that kept me thinking about this.

As for the bat gage - I have that but I ended up buying the Blademaster tool as well. I found that I could get a range of readings with the bat gage - if I pushed one end up, I could get one reading, if I pushed the other end, I could get a different reading, etc. Can you offer suggestions as to how to properly use it and specifically, lay it on the blade ?

[rachael7 1]

One thing I found helped with checking edges was doing your stoning first. Getting the burr off the edge seems to make for a much more accurate reading.

[chiefs17 2]

rachael is right, remove any burrs and wipe the blades with a towel before measuring. I notice there can be more of a burr when you are changing hollows from one to another. Especially when going from FBV to ROH and vice versa.

The Bat Gage is a tricky little device, but as you get used to it, you can get good results. I clamp it on the blade, then push down on the spring loaded base part a couple of times. You also need to hold the skate upside down and level while doing this. I noticed that you can alter the readings of the gage by tilting the skate. Do this a few times and see what your readings are. If you have uneven edges, turn the skate around and check it again. It should read uneven that way as well, this lets you know that you're seeing things correctly. Same goes for even edges, if they're even one way, they should be even when you flip the skate around. It's just a way to double check it until you get used to, and trust, the gage.

Finally, put a drop of light oil (3 in 1 is good) between the aluminum base part, and the sliding pointer part, right where the two pieces slide against each other. Also oil the two pins. Any friction there can mess up your readings.

Edited May 17, 2010 by chiefs17

[NuggyBuggy 0]

Thanks again chiefs17 and rachael7 - you've both been very helpful.

While working through my problems I did start stoning the blade thinking that might help, and also started pushing the blade lightly against a piece of wood. I do end up with a ton of micro-fiber hairs on my blade though. Also found out that you can some nasty slivers from running your finger on a just-sharpened skate.

chiefs17 - I did fix the "no-clicking" problem on the height wheel with your suggestions. There was no Loc-tite on any of the set screws. However, I find that one screw seems to either vibrate loose or come loose its wheel is being rotated. I've since taken to using some needle-nosed pliers to tighten it once it comes completely out of the detents, but should I just put some Loc-tite on it and then set it as high as I can (while still being able to click it) ?

[chiefs17 2]

I never had to mess with the set screws, but your solution sounds good.

[True North 0]

Does anyone know how many sharpenings your dressing should last?

I just got an X02 and I rammed through one grind wheel already because I overdressed my grind wheel.....oh well live and learn....good thing I ordered extras

[True North 0]

I think I am getting closer to making a perfect run.

Started using the Ruby after I mulched the Orange wheel.....much smoooother. It seems to dress easier and it seems to leave a better finish than the orange wheel.

I need some potinters on what to fix - I am using the HDI to measure

The heel of the blade is out of balance the most. As it gets to the center it gets better and near the front of the blade it is perfect.

Any suggestions on what to fix or tinker with?

Cheers

Edited May 20, 2010 by True North

[Ivan 1]

I think I am getting closer to making a perfect run.

Started using the Ruby after I mulched the Orange wheel.....much smoooother. It seems to dress easier and it seems to leave a better finish than the orange wheel.

I need some potinters on what to fix - I am using the HDI to measure

The heel of the blade is out of balance the most. As it gets to the center it gets better and near the front of the blade it is perfect.

Any suggestions on what to fix or tinker with?

Cheers

I assume you do witness marks, don't you?

[True North 0]

I assume you do witness marks, don't you?

ummmmmm......that would be a negative.

I am not sure how to use the witness marks to fix my problem. I will try again this morning

[mckjim 2]

I think I am getting closer to making a perfect run.

Started using the Ruby after I mulched the Orange wheel.....much smoooother. It seems to dress easier and it seems to leave a better finish than the orange wheel.

I need some potinters on what to fix - I am using the HDI to measure

The heel of the blade is out of balance the most. As it gets to the center it gets better and near the front of the blade it is perfect.

Any suggestions on what to fix or tinker with?

Cheers

I have found that the Blackstone holders adjust up/down about one thousandth of an inch for every 6 clicks you turn the adjustment dial. Generally, if I find that a skate I am sharpening is hitting too low on the right side of the blade by one thousandth of an inch I simply adjust the holder on the right front dial by turning it 6 clicks down, to lower the blade as against the grinding wheel. The adjustment dial in the front right of the holder in this example is what I would adjust, not the pitch dial.

[mckjim 2]

True North

I use the HDI as well, but only to check against the Quick Square, from Blademaster. After repeated use, the Quick Square aluminiun right angle piece can get wear marks. I use the HDI to make sure the aluminium piece is still accurate. Also, Home Depot and Lowes sell aluminium angle for relatively cheap prices and you can cut your own replacement pieces and simple super glue or hot glue a magnet in the middle and you have a new fresh angle piece. I find the HDI takes too much time when doing a lot of skates. But my routine is to check the blade at the front and back after sharpening, with the Quick Square. Usually if the edges are square at the front and the back of the blade, they are square in the middle. I have seen where only checking for square edges in the middle of the blade will not reveal "unsquare edges" at the front and even the back of a sharpened blade.

Generally when I sharpen and try for perfect "squareness", when the blade at the front is being sharpened and the edge is lower at the bottom edge in the holder, I lower the holder on that side and bring the blade down relative to the grinding wheel and "square" it up. I hope this helps. Technical writing to solve problems is difficult, especially when trying not to confuse people even more.

[True North 0]

mckJim

Thanks for the detailed explanations. I found some information in my manual on how to adjust the Tri Lie holder for out of balance edges. The informtation on 6 turns = 1/1000" was extremely helpful. I haven't tried it yet but I imagine it will put me in the right ballpark. The HDI is a great tool but I agree, I can't imagine doing a high volume of skates with it. I could see myself growing weary rather fast if I was doing more then a couple of skates each day.

Cheers!

[Ivan 1]

ummmmmm......that would be a negative.

I am not sure how to use the witness marks to fix my problem. I will try again this morning

Witness protection program?

[True North 0]

I use the HDI as well

What tolerance level do you work with as far as the edge balance is concered.

Is anything less than .001" out of balance acceptable or do you aim to be 100% spot on?

After some tinkering, I seem to have it very close but I am not sure what the acceptable standards are.

Anyone else with an opinion on this please feel free to chime in

[NuggyBuggy 0]

I assume you do witness marks, don't you?

What's the advantage of doing witness marks and checking level vs just doing a pass ? I can see that doing the latter is more likely to destroy the profile, but is there any other reason ?

Also, I just read this article about sharpening. Is this how you guys read witness marks ? I had thought you used a level at the witness marks.

[NuggyBuggy 0]

Update on my own trials and tribulations with my X-01. I finally was able to get close-to-level edges. Holding the base and not the boot did indeed make a big difference. I bought this portable stand and set it up on the deck in our yard since my dust collection setup is at my cottage. The edges were fractions of a pip mark off when viewed on my Blademaster level, but I was running out of time so couldn't make them "perfect".

I skated with them at practice yesterday. I sharpened my backup skates with the 90/75 spinner. I had my "regular" 5/8 skates in my bag just in case I found the former unskateable. Had some adjustments as the boot, hollow and FBV/ROH had changed, but the good thing was I didn't go back to my regular skates as wasn't falling down all the time like I would if I had uneven edges. However, I didn't notice either extra bite or extra glide that people talk about - maybe even less bite. Again, I'm not exactly comparing apples and oranges as so much was different.

One thing I struggled with though. I was easily able to mount the Mission Pitch holder on the X-01 Child Tri-lie holder without the holder interfering. But the Cobra 3000 holder on my Graf Ultra Gs really, really comes close to interfering with the clamps. Depending on how the skate is mounted, I have had the holders (lightly) stuck to each other after they were fully unclamped. I have since started visually trying to make sure they are not touching, and if I do so it looks like I have the slightest bit of clearance.

Does anybody else have difficulty getting enough clearance with the X01 holders ? Does the regular Tri-lie holder work better for a wide range of skates ? The Blackstone people had assured me that the Child holder would mount adult skates equally well.

Edited May 21, 2010 by NuggyBuggy

[chiefs17 2]

I've had trouble with Graf skates fitting in the Tri Lie holder too. I always had to do them with the outside of the skate facing up, which means heel first on the left skate, and toe first on the right. It's the way the Graf boot has such a pronounced shape where the outside forefoot is. Try flipping the skate around if it's hitting. It doesn't matter which way the skate hits the wheel. In fact, the article you posted about sharpening said that the Oilers Eq. Manager goes with toe first, but Blackstone suggests heel first.

I saw something else in the article, does anyone here do 3-4 passes just on the flat section of blade? I've been doing it for a while and I think it helps keep the profile in check. Just curious if anyone else does this.

[Chadd 916]

I saw something else in the article, does anyone here do 3-4 passes just on the flat section of blade? I've been doing it for a while and I think it helps keep the profile in check. Just curious if anyone else does this.

I only do enough passes to remove nicks and witness marks.

[chiefs17 2]

Chadd, what I meant is, do you make any passes without hitting the toe and heel?

Thanks.

[rachael7 1]

I don't do extra passes in the middle, but I have noticed a natural tendency to hit the toe and heel harder if not very careful. I just try to be aware of that tendency and keep my pressure very even throughout the pass so that equal material is removed along the whole length. But no question, it is all too easy to hit the ends harder and one definitely has to avoid that outcome.