Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[Holy the Goalie 0]

Hi everyone,

I've been following this thread with great interest for the last couple of weeks; it seems like a great place to get information and swap techniques for getting the best possible sharpening. Thanks to everyone that has taken place in the discussion; I've learned more about skates and sharpening in the last couple weeks than I ever knew previously.

I've been looking pretty seriously at getting a full size machine in order to start a (VERY) small scale sharpening business that will go who-knows-where, and I've got a couple of questions. I apologize if they've already been answered, as I haven't had time to review the thread in its entirety.

1. What kind of training, if any, does Blackstone provide when you purchase one of their machines?

2. Where should I be looking for used machines?

3. How long does it take to "get the hang" of sharpening? Are the difficulties related to technique similar between ROH and FBV?

4. (Slightly off-topic) What resources are available for learning to apply a radius?

Again, apologies if this has already been covered, and thanks for any info you guys can provide me!

[rider.prider.king 0]

Hey, Check this clip out of daily planet talking about FBV. You have to watch a couple minutes before they get to the good stuff though.

http://watch.discoverychannel.ca/daily-pla...010/#clip270321

[skarbro 0]

Hey, Check this clip out of daily planet talking about FBV. You have to watch a couple minutes before they get to the good stuff though.

http://watch.discoverychannel.ca/daily-pla...010/#clip270321

Pretty cool. It pretty much sums up FBV nicely. I didn't really understand the whole process of dressing the sharpener before and now I do.

[Law Goalie 147]

Holy, I will say that doing goalie skates on the current FBV setup is a little trickier, apparently.

I took my skates to an otherwise competent sharpener yesterday who had not yet done FBV on a pair of goalie skates, and he really struggled with them at first. Granted, one set of blades still had a 1/2" ROH on it, but the first skate he did was fishscaled, and the lateral edge was basically gone. When he re-did the blade, it was fine, and he said he felt he'd got the hang of it, but I was a bit surprised that a sharpener that experienced had to struggle to make it happen. Granted, am I also using the RBK Customlite cowlings, which are something of a bitch to work with, but they do have the full-width steel rather than the thinner 'Thrust Blades' from the 9K.

Just a word of warning. It might be worth waiting until Blackstone comes out with their goalie-specific shapes and has a little more time to iron things out. I'm already hooked, so I'll just have to live with it. :)

Sidenote: is it actually trickier to put an FBV cut on blades that were previously ROH that to work from a new blade?

[jimmy 194]

LG, yes, if you had a deep hollow on your RBK goal steel, it will take a lot of grinding to get it out, then put in the flat. As you know that steel is very hard and needs extra passes anyway, even to reestablish hollows. Changing hollows takes more passes as well, especially from a deep to a shallow. Once the flat is in, shouldn't be too hard to resharpen, but those blades will need minimum of 10 passes ea to refresh the FBV.

Curious did your sharpener have his holder set for goalie width's? I'm guessing he did but it shouldn't have been that perplexing to get in the FBV.

[JKranz24 1]

Just got FBV at our store, so my boss used me as a guinea pig. I usually skate on 9/16, so he gave me 90/50. I couldn't tell a huge difference, but i noticed my bite was still there. No real complaints though...my boss told me next time he'll give me the deepest cut so i can really tell how much glide I don't lose.

[skarbro 0]

Just got FBV at our store, so my boss used me as a guinea pig. I usually skate on 9/16, so he gave me 90/50. I couldn't tell a huge difference, but i noticed my bite was still there. No real complaints though...my boss told me next time he'll give me the deepest cut so i can really tell how much glide I don't lose.

Be careful. The deepest cut is a huge difference in bite. You may kill yourself the first time you try to stop!

[furlanitalia 1]

Yah, try 100/50 first.

[mnpucker 33]

Need some help. I have been sharpening skates for my Niece with my X02. Recently she was chosen to play for Team USA U18 World Championship team. THey play in Northridge, Illinois. Is anyone familiar with a local LHS that is experienced with FBV? She skates on 100/75.

Thnaks

[cbart 1]

Need some help. I have been sharpening skates for my Niece with my X02. Recently she was chosen to play for Team USA U18 World Championship team. THey play in Northridge, Illinois. Is anyone familiar with a local LHS that is experienced with FBV? She skates on 100/75.

Thnaks

S. Andersen?!

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

Need some help. I have been sharpening skates for my Niece with my X02. Recently she was chosen to play for Team USA U18 World Championship team. THey play in Northridge, Illinois. Is anyone familiar with a local LHS that is experienced with FBV? She skates on 100/75.

Thnaks

No need to worry the US trainer has the FBV.

[mnpucker 33]

I was told probably not at Expo in St paul. Hope you are right

Edited March 19, 2010 by mnpucker

[Law Goalie 147]

LG, yes, if you had a deep hollow on your RBK goal steel, it will take a lot of grinding to get it out, then put in the flat. As you know that steel is very hard and needs extra passes anyway, even to reestablish hollows. Changing hollows takes more passes as well, especially from a deep to a shallow. Once the flat is in, shouldn't be too hard to resharpen, but those blades will need minimum of 10 passes ea to refresh the FBV.

Curious did your sharpener have his holder set for goalie width's? I'm guessing he did but it shouldn't have been that perplexing to get in the FBV.

Not sure about the holder - I was in the back playing with some Brian's Focus gear. I just seemed to recall that the RBK cowlings were somewhat annoying to get settled right.

I suspect you're right that he just didn't use enough passes. He did both sets of blades in the time it took another shop just to do the first pair I tried it on. I may take them back to give him another crack.

When I skated on them today, it really did feel like the flat wasn't fully in; the edges were there, but I didn't have that silky glide that FBV gave me before. Does that fit with what you suspect may have happened with too few passes to establish the flat?

[tscharf 0]

Recently tried the FBV and I loved it... sort of. I have the older CCM U+ with the rocket runners and apparently the guy that sharpened mine wasn't very experienced. My left skate was off, so I could not stop on my left side. Other than that, I definitely noticed a difference. My edges felt better in high speed turns. I normally skate with a 5/8 hollow, so I tried the 100/75. I went back to a normal round hollow for now, but when I replace these stupid rocket runners with normal steel I think I'm going back to the FBV.

[Holy the Goalie 0]

Holy, I will say that doing goalie skates on the current FBV setup is a little trickier, apparently.

I took my skates to an otherwise competent sharpener yesterday who had not yet done FBV on a pair of goalie skates, and he really struggled with them at first. Granted, one set of blades still had a 1/2" ROH on it, but the first skate he did was fishscaled, and the lateral edge was basically gone. When he re-did the blade, it was fine, and he said he felt he'd got the hang of it, but I was a bit surprised that a sharpener that experienced had to struggle to make it happen. Granted, am I also using the RBK Customlite cowlings, which are something of a bitch to work with, but they do have the full-width steel rather than the thinner 'Thrust Blades' from the 9K.

Just a word of warning. It might be worth waiting until Blackstone comes out with their goalie-specific shapes and has a little more time to iron things out. I'm already hooked, so I'll just have to live with it. :)

Sidenote: is it actually trickier to put an FBV cut on blades that were previously ROH that to work from a new blade?

Thanks for the info, Law Goalie. Gerard from Blackstone contacted me the other day, and actually recommended one of their professional portable units. One question regarding the F-02 Spin, if anyone has any experience with that machine; the description on the website says that it accepts the Blackstone Shaping System, which I understand is their way of applying a rocker to the runner. Since the portables don't have a cross grind wheel, how is that done? Using the horizontal grinding wheel? Wouldn't that drastically reduce the life of your grinding wheel?

[weedsnager 0]

Need some help. I have been sharpening skates for my Niece with my X02. Recently she was chosen to play for Team USA U18 World Championship team. THey play in Northridge, Illinois. Is anyone familiar with a local LHS that is experienced with FBV? She skates on 100/75.

Thnaks

the total hockey shops in the chicagoland area offer FBV....i know gunzos does not

Edited March 20, 2010 by weedsnager

[Ivan 1]

Below is an e-mail message from Blackstone that I got:

______________________________________________

To all of you who purchased an upgraded X-12 or X-12-Youth skate holder for your X-series machines....we now have a calibration block available for sale!

This calibration block will allow you to easily re-calibrate your holder. At any time, you can dial in the holder to its original setting! Simply insert the block between the lower and upper base plates at the three adjustment points. Dial up or down accordingly, until the two plates come in contact with the calibration block!

The calibration block will be available for sale by the end of March at a price of $15.00

Thanks,

Gerard Hebert

Black Stone Sports

800.405.3433

ghebert@blackstonesport.com

Edited March 23, 2010 by Ivan

[joepaw 0]

Just bought an XO1 a few weeks ago. I noticed that I am not getting a smooth finish on the blade. Basically, there are lines/grooves going parallel on the skate. I have even edges though. I noticed my spinner is barely moving when dressing the wheel. Are the lines a result of the spinner not moving freely? And, if so, how do I get it loosen up?

[rachael7 1]

Just bought an XO1 a few weeks ago. I noticed that I am not getting a smooth finish on the blade. Basically, there are lines/grooves going parallel on the skate. I have even edges though. I noticed my spinner is barely moving when dressing the wheel. Are the lines a result of the spinner not moving freely? And, if so, how do I get it loosen up?

Yes, spinner too tight is probably the problem - it happened to me too. My solution to loosen up the spinner was to remove the spinner wheel and remove the c-clip, which will revealed a wavy spring washer that supplies pressure to keep the spinner from spinning too much. I flattened the spring washer slightly to reduce the pressure on the spinner. After that, the spinner spins more freely and the lines became small enough to be a non-issue. I still feel like the finish could be a touch better, but its as good as any of the local guys ever did and I don't think I'll do much better until they come out with finer wheels for the X series.

Edited March 23, 2010 by rachael7

[Ivan 1]

It also may be due to your passes. ESpecially the final pass. Dress the wheel before the final pass and do it slowly with minimal pressure using either one of polishers (Lube Tube or Fine Shine).

[ricepow 14]

Hey guys, I have an X01 that Ive had now for a couple months. I dont claim to be a pro by any means but I am able to get a pretty decent and level edge (better than the local rink can provide anyway) and using a 90/75 FBV spinner. My question though. Like mentioned above, I am able to get decent edges but have noticed something with my wheel. After using the Fine Shine for the final pass it leaves a dark residue on the wheel (not the issue) but I have noticed this dark line does not go around the entire wheel, almost like the wheel is out of round. To the best of my recollection this has occured from day one and this is my first wheel, so Im not sure if its the wheel or something else. I have tried several times to do a pretty significant dressing thinking it would resolve this but it never does. Like I said, this is my first wheel and I have another ready to go but haven't used it yet. Is anyone else experiencing this? Is this something I should call Blackstone about? Thanks in advance.

[chiefs17 2]

This all goes back to the wheel arbor being out of round. Try loosening the arbor nut and repositioning the grinding wheel. It sometimes takes a few times doing this to get it better.

You can contact BS about the arbor, and I suggest you do, but they will only send you a new one that is to the same specs (out of round). Who knows, maybe if more people let them know that there is a problem there they will do something about it. Kind of like the original holder the machines came with. They must have heard it enough that came out with the improved tri-lie holder for the X series.

Hey guys, I have an X01 that Ive had now for a couple months. I dont claim to be a pro by any means but I am able to get a pretty decent and level edge (better than the local rink can provide anyway) and using a 90/75 FBV spinner. My question though. Like mentioned above, I am able to get decent edges but have noticed something with my wheel. After using the Fine Shine for the final pass it leaves a dark residue on the wheel (not the issue) but I have noticed this dark line does not go around the entire wheel, almost like the wheel is out of round. To the best of my recollection this has occured from day one and this is my first wheel, so Im not sure if its the wheel or something else. I have tried several times to do a pretty significant dressing thinking it would resolve this but it never does. Like I said, this is my first wheel and I have another ready to go but haven't used it yet. Is anyone else experiencing this? Is this something I should call Blackstone about? Thanks in advance.

[ricepow 14]

Ill try giving them a call. Ive tried to reposition the wheel but there is pretty much no play to work with. Like you said, maybe if enough of us complain about it something will get done. Ill do my part. Thanks for the suggestion.

[ricepow 14]

lol Just called them. Initially I was told they have never heard of this issue and the person I spoke with would talk to some of the other guys there and call me back. Shortly after that I received a call back and was told this was normal and it happens on all of their machines, even the larger ones. I'm not sure this should be normal, but ok. I guess if I was having issues sharpening the skates I would worry more but Im not. No regrets on this machine at all.

[joepaw 0]

Yes, spinner too tight is probably the problem - it happened to me too. My solution to loosen up the spinner was to remove the spinner wheel and remove the c-clip, which will revealed a wavy spring washer that supplies pressure to keep the spinner from spinning too much. I flattened the spring washer slightly to reduce the pressure on the spinner. After that, the spinner spins more freely and the lines became small enough to be a non-issue. I still feel like the finish could be a touch better, but its as good as any of the local guys ever did and I don't think I'll do much better until they come out with finer wheels for the X series.

Thanks. I spoke with Blackstone. They said to push the spring washer down with my thumb for a minute and it should help. So, I took some pliers and held it down for 2 minutes. The spinner actually spun this time. You are right the finish could be a bit better but I will settle.