Leafs 08/09

[k13 0]

If we traded Kaberle now, we'd get a lot less in return than if we traded him at the deadline. His value is too low right now.

[Eazy_b97 1]

I haven't watched too many Colorado games but it appears that Tucker is picking up where he finished last year. It was a dumb team for him to sign with because they have a ton of forwards who will get more ice time than him, and they have a lot of grinders who fill his same role. I wouldn't be surprised to see him retire after next season. McCabe is certainly doing well, and whats even more impressive is that he is given how deep Florida's defense is. JBo, Ballard, Boynton, and McCabe is a pretty damn good top four. But honestly, do you think McCabe could have ever done well again in Toronto? I know I don't. I have faith that Fletch tried his best to get good returns for those three, but ultimately couldn't. I was more upset about Fletch losing someone like Wellwood for nothing and giving up draft picks for Hollweg and Mayers.

McCabe's a tough one. He did well while being hated here. I have faith tried to do his best, but I also have faith JFJ and many other Gms have done their best here too. He's made some good moves, but we're in a worse spot than when he took over, so it's troubling. More money spent, weaker team, less talent to unload.

Have the Leafs finally given up on the notion of Sundin returning or are they still sitting on that cap space?

They'll have the space all year, but the hopes of brining him back faded a while ago.

[kosydar 0]

The thing I like about the McCabe trade right now is that Van Ryn is playing arguably as well as McCabe is (or was before he was hurt). If he keeps it up he will be very attractive at the deadline, and his contract is much better for a team to take on than McCabe's.

[k13 0]

Have the Leafs finally given up on the notion of Sundin returning or are they still sitting on that cap space?

A friend of mine spoke with Andrew Raycroft (who spent a couple of weeks with Sundin in Sweden over the summer), and Raycroft told him there is zero chance that Sundin will return to Toronto.

[RadioGaGa 162]

Have the Leafs finally given up on the notion of Sundin returning or are they still sitting on that cap space?

A friend of mine spoke with Andrew Raycroft (who spent a couple of weeks with Sundin in Sweden over the summer), and Raycroft told him there is zero chance that Sundin will return to Toronto.

Burke was asked that the day he was hired (officially)...he said flat out that signing Sundin would be contrary to the re-building plan.

[k13 0]

Have the Leafs finally given up on the notion of Sundin returning or are they still sitting on that cap space?

A friend of mine spoke with Andrew Raycroft (who spent a couple of weeks with Sundin in Sweden over the summer), and Raycroft told him there is zero chance that Sundin will return to Toronto.

Burke was asked that the day he was hired (officially)...he said flat out that signing Sundin would be contrary to the re-building plan.

Regardless, Sundin's intentions from the onset was to not return to Toronto. My friend said Raycroft spoke of how the upper management's treatment of Sundin near the trade deadline was a big factor.

[KryptOng 9]

definitely sad to see Sundin, end his tenure with the Leafs this way. Was it Dave Keon the last player to shy away from the Leafs because he was mistreated by the team? I guess years down the road Sundin and the Leafs can patch things up.

Anyways, tonight's game was a change. A win! Blake and Moore seem to have some good chemistry together, they seem to feed off each other's speed on the ice. Blake has 6 points in his last 3 games. Not bad! hopefully he keeps this up and gets that monkey off his back!

Sadly Schenn's gone with a sprained knee as suspected. 2-4 weeks.

[k13 0]

definitely sad to see Sundin, end his tenure with the Leafs this way. Was it Dave Keon the last player to shy away from the Leafs because he was mistreated by the team? I guess years down the road Sundin and the Leafs can patch things up.

Wasn't Sittler in a simular situation (his trade to Philly)?

Sundin is a class act, and I would be incredibly shocked if he didn't patch things up with the Leafs as soon as he starts playing again.

[Eazy_b97 1]

My only question is why would Raycroft be spending time with Sundin in Sweeden? I don't doubt that it was a big factor, just surprised Raycroft would be with Mats in Sweeden.

[mrusse01 0]

My only question is why would Raycroft be spending time with Sundin in Sweeden? I don't doubt that it was a big factor, just surprised Raycroft would be with Mats in Sweeden.

Yeah, I find that surprising as well.

The Leafs did treat Sundin poorly last year I thought, he had enough tenure and had done enough for the franchise that I thought they shouldn't have made it known they asked him to waive his NTC.

A simple, private, conversation should have taken place between his agent and the management...if Mats said he didn't want to be traded, that should have been that, and Mats could have truthfully told the media that the team hadn't approached him about waiving his NTC. Fletcher should have told the media that he wasn't interested in moving the cornerstone of the franchise, taken the heat for it, and that's that. They kind of threw him under the bus there (maybe rightfully so, but I still don't think you do that to a guy like Sundin).

I was at the game last night, that Moore/Blake/Williams line looked good.....Blake was really flying around out there. Those guys do have some nice chemistry, I liked the line when White was on there, and I like it with Williams...that kid has some real skill, the pass he made to Blake to set-up Blake's goal was a high high skill play. Stralman looked good as well, man that guy can fly when you see him person. What a skater.

I don't know what's gotten into Stajan this year, I mean, he actually is a threat with the puck now. It's like he found some hands that I didn't know he had. I talked to him a couple times last year and got the feeling he really didn't like the coaching staff, maybe he's responding to Wilson.

I talked to Moore a few weeks ago as well when I was at a fantasy camp thing for the day (see avatar), and just want to say he was a genuinely nice guy. Took time to tell us all about some of the little stuff that goes on in the dressing room you might not realize, mentioned that being from the GTA he understood how special it is to play for the Maple Leafs even compared to a place like Minnesota. Came out on the ice for a practice type thing and was obviously amazing on the ice, but really a nice guy, telling people 'good job', that sort of stuff. Coaches Acton and Hunter were pretty funny as well, those guys are intense...you could see them starting to get ticked at people not doing drills properly and stuff. Anyways, its cool to see Moore have a bit of success the last little while, I hope he can keep it up.

[k13 0]

Supposidly Raycroft and Sundin are good friends? Raycroft and his wife were going on vacation, spent a few weeks with Sundin and his fiancee in Sweden.

My friend found this all out because he ended up buying Raycroft's BMW before he jumped to Colorado.

[chippa13 1844]

The other side of the NTC discussion with Sundin; management has to answer when the fans are killing them for not making moves to improve the club. "Hey, we tried to make moves but players wouldn't waive their clauses."

[KryptOng 9]

I hope the Leafs extend Moore's contract beyond this season, possibly a 2-year maybe even 3. His on ice work ethic and penalty killing is a plus for the Leafs. One of the few good pick ups by JFJ off waivers!

Stajan has certainly picked up his game with the more ice time he's gotten from Wilson, he's on pace for 60+ points this season. Not bad imo. But with Burke now running the show, I have this sense that Stajan could be on his way out this trade deadline due to his lack of size and checking. His value will definitely go up with the way he's producing, so it could yield possibly a 2nd round pick.

[kosydar 0]

The last thing I would want the Leafs to do regarding Moore is to extend him. I appreciate what he has done this season (and last), but I hope they deal him at the deadline. He should get at least what Kilger got, if not more. The problem with signing guys like Moore who don't have a high ceiling and rely on their work ethic is that they get too comfortable if they have a multi-year deal. If Moore stops hustling like his job is on the line (which it is), he becomes a marginal fourth liner. We don't need another Boyd Devereaux or Bates Battaglia being paid $700,000 to play for the Marlies. I know that they fill different roles, but in a season where there is no hope for the post season, I'd rather have someone like Jeremy Williams play than a vet who doesn't have much of a future with the Leafs.

[k13 0]

The last thing I would want the Leafs to do regarding Moore is to extend him. I appreciate what he has done this season (and last), but I hope they deal him at the deadline. He should get at least what Kilger got, if not more. The problem with signing guys like Moore who don't have a high ceiling and rely on their work ethic is that they get too comfortable if they have a multi-year deal. If Moore stops hustling like his job is on the line (which it is), he becomes a marginal fourth liner. We don't need another Boyd Devereaux or Bates Battaglia being paid $700,000 to play for the Marlies. I know that they fill different roles, but in a season where there is no hope for the post season, I'd rather have someone like Jeremy Williams play than a vet who doesn't have much of a future with the Leafs.

+1

Very well said.

[mrusse01 0]

The other side of the NTC discussion with Sundin; management has to answer when the fans are killing them for not making moves to improve the club. "Hey, we tried to make moves but players wouldn't waive their clauses."

Yeah well exactly, management threw Sundin under the bus when they could have just said they weren't interested in moving him, and that's that. It's not like it would have hurt the team, Sundin refused to go anyways, they would have been in the exact same situation only with blame shifted towards a 70+ year old outgoing GM rather than one of the best players in franchise history. Is it management's duty to protect the legacy of Mats Sundin? I guess not, but still, it would have shown some class at least in my opinion.

The real thing I don't think people consider enough about what went down at the deadline last year...Sundin and those guys honestly thought they had a good chance to make the playoffs. I bet if they had been even 5 more games out, with the possible exception of Tucker, they probably would have all waived their NTC.

I see your point about re-signing Moore, but it all comes down to what kind on contract he is looking for. If he'll sign for a couple years at $1 million per, I don't see how that's a bad contract. I expect he'd be looking for closer to $1.5 per, and probably longer than 2 years, but who knows. I agree they need to open up some roster spots for young players, but I'd rather see them get rid of lugs like Deveaux or Hollweg, older players that don't offer much (Mayers), or even guys like Poni who have been around way too long. You've got to figure Nik is gone one way or another, Hollweg is a retarded player to have on the roster...and the system isn't exactly teeming with NHL ready forwards, I think there will be lots of space for a guy like Moore to wear the 'A' and play third line centre next year.

[chippa13 1844]

Actually, Sundin waiving his clause could have helped the Leafs. They could have received a decent draft pick and/or an upstart or two to allow the Leafs to start building. Instead, they still wind up sans Sundin this season and they have nothing to show for it.

[mrusse01 0]

Actually, Sundin waiving his clause could have helped the Leafs. They could have received a decent draft pick and/or an upstart or two to allow the Leafs to start building. Instead, they still wind up sans Sundin this season and they have nothing to show for it.

You are missing the point, again. I know my replies are somewhat lengthy, but try and get past the first 20 words this time before you respond.

Sundin wasn't going to waive his NTC, consider that as a given. Management had two options when they first realized Mats didn't want to leave; they could have either run to the media and said they're doing everything they can, but Mats won't budge, so it's not our fault we can't trade him. Or they could have just have said 'We're not moving Mats', and perhaps continued to try and convince him behind the scenes.

They tried the first route, perhaps to embarass him or pressure him to accept a deal. It didn't work, and sullied his reputation among certain fans. I think considering Sundin's place among the greatest players ever to wear the sweater, that it was a poorly handled situation.

[chippa13 1844]

It is interesting. Many "venerable veterans" will do the opposite of Mats and accept the move as a way of helping what would have been his former team. They go out with the typical, "I hate to leave after such and such but I understand that this move helps [insert team name here] down the road. The game is a business and these things happen. I've enjoyed my time here and now I'm looking forward to helping [insert new team here]."

It isn't just Sundin, but all of the "we won't go" brigade in TO last spring. Reap what you sow, Mats.

[k13 0]

Sundin spent many years here with little to no winger support. The best winger he probably had (Mogilny hardly played on a line with him) would probably be Steve Thomas. He stuck it out with us, and I honestly think he owed us nothing.

Many think that there is nothing better than to win the cup, but to Sundin, there is nothing better than to win a cup with his friends, and his team. At the trade deadline, we still had a chance to make the playoffs (albeit slim), but Sundin stuck with us.

I wouldn't hold anything against him for signing with another team at this point, because he showed us that he was a true Leaf, and we ignored it.

[top_shelf_24 0]

I have no problem with the fact that he didn't sign, but if he signs this year after saying that the only time he would want to play for another team is after being with them right from day one (training camp), I would lose some respect for him. People who say it's ridiculous and unfair for him to make teams wait this long i disagree with, unless of course he choses to sign.

As a hockey fan, I personally don't understand Mats' decision not to leave at the deadline. If he took the trade, he would have ended up in the exact same place this year, except with the good feeling of knowing he did something good for old team, likely some more playoff games under his belt and possibly some new hardware to show for it. Personally at this point, I'm angry that he hasn't played this year. I simply love watching the guy and I think it's a crime for a perfectly healthy hockey player with that much talent not to be out there playing. I can just imagine how fast guys like Yzerman or Orr would lace up if they could trade bodies with Mats.

As a Leafs fan, as sad as I am to see the guy go, I can't help but "what if" the roster we would have right now if he had left. It is disappointing knowing he will likely be centering another team come this March, but as long as it isn't Ottawa i think i'll get by.

[mrusse01 0]

As a hockey fan, I personally don't understand Mats' decision not to leave at the deadline.

I really think it's because he thought he could make the playoffs last year with the team they had.

I too am a bit pissed though that he said he didn't want a join a team mid-season, and now he appears to be ready to do just that.

[top_shelf_24 0]

I dont think it was the hope that they might make the playoffs that drove him to stay so much as the fear that if he left, the leafs would pull an underdog and take home the cup without him, thus taking Sean Avery's position as the NHL's biggest douche

[chippa13 1844]

I dont think it was the hope that they might make the playoffs that drove him to stay so much as the fear that if he left, the leafs would pull an underdog and take home the cup without him, thus taking Sean Avery's position as the NHL's biggest douche

Yeah, that was it. <_<

[top_shelf_24 0]

Hey, i know its nothing much, but it's better than what they put in the star ;)