Lactic Acid Question

[rjw059 0]

Any exercise physiologists out there? Why is it that some games/practices/pickup sessions that my legs will feel great and I can skate balls out for 60-70 seconds before i feel any lactic acid buildup, but other games my legs feel dead after 20 seconds (especially w/ quick stops and starts involved)?

Anything I can do prior to games to really get my legs loosened up and to help delay the effect of lactic acid buildup? I'm sure everyone has their days when they have their legs, and other days when they don't. This has baffled me for many many years.

[RecLeagueHero 0]

Sounds like your skating with lactic acid build up on the muslces. Making your body more efficent at the removal of lactic acid through proper conditioning should be the primary focus, in this case making sure you're getting enough aerobic conditioning. Making sure you're getting a full stretching session and warm-up is also key, as is making sure you're getting a proper rest after skating. As aerobic exercise also helps with the removal of lactic acid you might try riding a stationary bike for 30 minutes to an hour after skating.

[wildebeest 0]

WATER, agua, H2O. None of that day-glo sugar syrup crap. Drink a ton of it starting about 3 hours before you play, drink enough to stay wet during the game, then drink more after.

I repeat, if it's endorsed by a football player, an NBAer or Derek Jeter, DO NOT DRINK IT. If you want these mystical "electrolytes", take a salt tablet or eat a banana.

You'll see a major improvement.

[Law Goalie 147]

Water, water, water; chocolate milk and a banana about half an hour after you finish. (No, I'm not basing this on the milk commercial, but on the studies that preceded it.)

RLH is absolutely correct when he says that increasing your aerobic conditioning in general and following a hard skate with a bike ride (or a rowing ergometer, ideally) will greatly improve your body's ability to flush lactic acid from tissues - PROVIDED that you're probably hydrated and fed.

[-knowlzey- 0]

WATER, agua, H2O. None of that day-glo sugar syrup crap. Drink a ton of it starting about 3 hours before you play, drink enough to stay wet during the game, then drink more after.

I repeat, if it's endorsed by a football player, an NBAer or Derek Jeter, DO NOT DRINK IT. If you want these mystical "electrolytes", take a salt tablet or eat a banana.

You'll see a major improvement.

I take a bottle of water and some Emergen-C Electrolytes powder, and it works very well. I used to have a coffee before games but a homeopath told me that although it energizes me, it gets me un hydrated, so she suggested I get the product. It works very well, and isn't expensive.

[rjw059 0]

WATER, agua, H2O. None of that day-glo sugar syrup crap. Drink a ton of it starting about 3 hours before you play, drink enough to stay wet during the game, then drink more after.

I repeat, if it's endorsed by a football player, an NBAer or Derek Jeter, DO NOT DRINK IT. If you want these mystical "electrolytes", take a salt tablet or eat a banana.

You'll see a major improvement.

Thanks for the feedback. drinking enought H20 before games is something I have not done consistently even since my youth days so that makes a lot of sense.

In terms of increasing my aerobic and anaerobic bases I feel that I am doing all that I can do currently and have for many years, so not drinking enough water is probably the culprit.

With regard to stretching and warming up, I have never really found the answer as to what works best.

[s4gobabygo 0]

i'm surprised that nobody has mentioned potassium yet. that's one of the best ways of controlling your body's retention of lactic acid. try eating a banana an hour before, and immediatly after these strenuous workouts.

[starskie 0]

Any exercise physiologists out there? Why is it that some games/practices/pickup sessions that my legs will feel great and I can skate balls out for 60-70 seconds before i feel any lactic acid buildup, but other games my legs feel dead after 20 seconds (especially w/ quick stops and starts involved)?

Anything I can do prior to games to really get my legs loosened up and to help delay the effect of lactic acid buildup? I'm sure everyone has their days when they have their legs, and other days when they don't. This has baffled me for many many years.

Do you not do a lot of quick stops and starts when practicing or at pick-ups? When you do a lot of quick stops and starts, your muscles need a quicker source of energy and thus turn to an anaerobic pathway for energy (which produces lactate). It's like running long distance and sprinting. When I do distance work I can run for miles without lactic acid buildup, but when i do a sprint work out I can feel that lactic acid build up after a couple 200 meter repeats.

My suggestion is to adjust your workout. Maybe once a week throw in a sprint work out or something similar on skates, but be sure your workouts the day before and after are pretty easy. Doing speed work outs will teach your body how to deal with the lactic acid better, plus your skating (acceleration) will improve.

[ddpatc 0]

Some good tips here let me add my 2 cents. Proper hydration and fuel are your keys to success in any activity. The theory of pounding fluids is a good one although I would start sooner than 3 hours prior to the activity. Fueling the body and subsequently the muscles is started the evening before, and carried forth untill 3 hours just prior. Depending on your body make up and level of conditioning you may find what works for some won't work for you or visa versa. One major change I would suggest is your hydration program should stop an hour prior to your warm up, and resume after your warm up. This will allow the body to process the fluid and express it, then shutting down your bowels, or resetting them to a more normal state. Once you hit the ice you will sweat, and you don't want that combined with excreation to speed your dehydration process. Magnesium, Potasium, and Sodium are the 3 macro nutrients you will depleat heavily during the activity, so hydrate often a sip/squirt regularily as you return to the bench will help, don't wait till you are thirsty, that's too late, and a preliminary sign of dehydration. Provided you have fuelled efficiantly water will suffice for hydration during the activity, cramping or the heavy feeling legs and or arms are a sign of lack of fuel and hydration, use a suppliment, or sports drink if this occurs.

I have suggested to my athletes that a post game drink consisting of 2 bananas, 8 ozs of milk, a scoop of ice cream or yogurt, a tea spoon of salt and a table spoon of sugar (for taste only) mixed in a blender and consumed 30 mins post, along with a few slices of pizza or a pasta with a tomato and meat sauce will set them on their way to a timely recovery. Eating anything an hour or less prior to the activity will be detrimental to your performance as it will draw oxygenated blood used by the muscles from those muscles to the stomach to digest the food. If you need anything try jelly beans and or pretzals a small cup of them should suffice for most. They are slow sugars and sodium that will aid in fuid retention to the muscles helping to avoid cramping and the heaviness feeling.

Riding the bike for 15-20 mins at a 15 -20 MPH pace, or getting into a cold tub will help you express the lactic as well, a cold whirlpool (keep the water moving) bath of 55-65 degrees for 10-15 mins will cause the lactic to be flushed by the increased blood flow.

[lee92 2]

Sounds like your skating with lactic acid build up on the muslces. Making your body more efficent at the removal of lactic acid through proper conditioning should be the primary focus, in this case making sure you're getting enough aerobic conditioning. Making sure you're getting a full stretching session and warm-up is also key, as is making sure you're getting a proper rest after skating. As aerobic exercise also helps with the removal of lactic acid you might try riding a stationary bike for 30 minutes to an hour after skating.

If he wants to delay the onset of lactic acid production in his muscles, aerobic conditioning isn't what he wants because lactic acid isn't part of the aerobic energy system. It's a product of the anaerobic energy pathway, therefore to delay the onset of lactic acid production through conditioning, you should be working in sprint intervals at your lactic acid threshold. Training at your lactate threshold will increase your resistance to lactate buildup, therefore delaying the onset of lactic acid.

Light aerobic exercise is good post workouts, as it allows your body to cool down, lower your heart rate, and flush out the toxins built up in the body from exercise.

[Tikkanen 1]

I do cold showers, no whirlpools available at the rinks I play at. Takes some getting used to but I always ask people do you feel good after getting out of the ocean or are you tired and sluggish?

[rjw059 0]

Some good tips here let me add my 2 cents. Proper hydration and fuel are your keys to success in any activity. The theory of pounding fluids is a good one although I would start sooner than 3 hours prior to the activity. Fueling the body and subsequently the muscles is started the evening before, and carried forth untill 3 hours just prior. Depending on your body make up and level of conditioning you may find what works for some won't work for you or visa versa. One major change I would suggest is your hydration program should stop an hour prior to your warm up, and resume after your warm up. This will allow the body to process the fluid and express it, then shutting down your bowels, or resetting them to a more normal state. Once you hit the ice you will sweat, and you don't want that combined with excreation to speed your dehydration process. Magnesium, Potasium, and Sodium are the 3 macro nutrients you will depleat heavily during the activity, so hydrate often a sip/squirt regularily as you return to the bench will help, don't wait till you are thirsty, that's too late, and a preliminary sign of dehydration. Provided you have fuelled efficiantly water will suffice for hydration during the activity, cramping or the heavy feeling legs and or arms are a sign of lack of fuel and hydration, use a suppliment, or sports drink if this occurs.

I have suggested to my athletes that a post game drink consisting of 2 bananas, 8 ozs of milk, a scoop of ice cream or yogurt, a tea spoon of salt and a table spoon of sugar (for taste only) mixed in a blender and consumed 30 mins post, along with a few slices of pizza or a pasta with a tomato and meat sauce will set them on their way to a timely recovery. Eating anything an hour or less prior to the activity will be detrimental to your performance as it will draw oxygenated blood used by the muscles from those muscles to the stomach to digest the food. If you need anything try jelly beans and or pretzals a small cup of them should suffice for most. They are slow sugars and sodium that will aid in fuid retention to the muscles helping to avoid cramping and the heaviness feeling.

Riding the bike for 15-20 mins at a 15 -20 MPH pace, or getting into a cold tub will help you express the lactic as well, a cold whirlpool (keep the water moving) bath of 55-65 degrees for 10-15 mins will cause the lactic to be flushed by the increased blood flow.

Great great great feedback on this thread....much appreciated! I will definitely incorporate the diet/hydration advice into my preparation going forward. One more thing...I sometimes take a hot shower before heading to the rink to help warm the muscles up. Is this detrimental?

[starskie 0]

Great great great feedback on this thread....much appreciated! I will definitely incorporate the diet/hydration advice into my preparation going forward. One more thing...I sometimes take a hot shower before heading to the rink to help warm the muscles up. Is this detrimental?

no and that won't warm up your muscles. You warm up muscles to get them prepared to do work, thus you must use the muscles lightly before doing whatever work you're going to do. Skating around the rink, jogging, etc, before the game is a proper warm up. That's like saying, I'm going to warm up my car by washing it.

[xstartxtodayx 343]

Very insightful thread. When I was younger I didn't pay much attention to this sort of thing b/c being on the ice 3-4 times a week and playing other sports at the same time kept me in pretty good shape where I never had to worry about tiring out, but now that I'm just around the corner from 30 and haven't been too active the past few years I'm realizing that all these other factors are really important.

Thanks for the great info and keep it up.

[CTK30 0]

Just keep your diet consistent, always eat the same thing before then you can change things to see how they affect you

I usually have one scoop of whey, it's supposed to help endurance. Can't go wrong with a banana thrown in either

[rjw059 0]

Very insightful thread. When I was younger I didn't pay much attention to this sort of thing b/c being on the ice 3-4 times a week and playing other sports at the same time kept me in pretty good shape where I never had to worry about tiring out, but now that I'm just around the corner from 30 and haven't been too active the past few years I'm realizing that all these other factors are really important.

Thanks for the great info and keep it up.

my sentiments exactly. when I was a kid I never had to worry about this sort of thing nor did I have to worry about it in high school or juniors b/c I was on the ice several times a week (and i was younger). now at 28 and still always trying to be in the best playing shape that I can be in I am trying to learn all the stuff that I nnever had to worry about.

to all the posters, thanks for the valuable input

[Ahriman 1]

I think the biggest thing you can do is to increase your body's level of hydration long term. For the last 5 years I've been consistant in my level of activity, stress, exercise, diet and hockey.

Some days I felt like the day's you've experienced and other days just fine throughout and afterwards. Until about 4 months ago when I started taking 2 one liter bottles of water to work. Every day I would bring home both bottles, with at most one half full and the other empty; overall adding about 2 more liters of water to my daily consumption. During hockey I've consistently never felt better on the ice or afterwards, no cramping, no aches and pains, no headaches.

[iamcanadian 0]

There's been some great tips in this thread. I'll try drinking a lot more water and take a nice cold shower after hockey.

[starskie 0]

http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120...13026-0,00.html

here is some information about lactic acid and why it actually burns/hurts your muscles, plus a tip on how to prolong the onset of that burning sensation.

[Theodoras 0]

I repeat, if it's endorsed by a football player, an NBAer or Derek Jeter, DO NOT DRINK IT. If you want these mystical "electrolytes", take a salt tablet or eat a banana.

+1 banana and water bottle are my best friends...

[top 1974 0]

This has been one of the better threads on MSH for a while....

Also, take a serving of Beta-Alanine 30 minutes prior to a game. Beta-Alanine is a non essential amino acid that aids endurance and delays the onset of lactic acid buildup. The best one for me is Ultimate Nutrition Beta Alanine. I take 1 serving 30 minutes before a game. Try it and you will be blown away by how much gas you have left in the thrid period.

Numerous studies have been conducted on Beta Alanine. You can find some information here:

http://www.betaalanine.info/

[ddpatc 0]

This has been one of the better threads on MSH for a while....

Also, take a serving of Beta-Alanine 30 minutes prior to a game. Beta-Alanine is a non essential amino acid that aids endurance and delays the onset of lactic acid buildup. The best one for me is Ultimate Nutrition Beta Alanine. I take 1 serving 30 minutes before a game. Try it and you will be blown away by how much gas you have left in the thrid period.

Numerous studies have been conducted on Beta Alanine. You can find some information here:

http://www.betaalanine.info/

Just curious here with all this talk of OTC suppliments, what level(s) of play are we dealing with here...?