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gxc999

Mislabeled lie...

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I did a search on mislabeled lie but didn't find anything so I'm starting a thread in the hope that it helps accurately explain lie moreso than the manufacturers do. Easton's scale is very universal, but everyone else now is pretty much up in the air. For Bauer, P106 and P88 are not actually 6 lie. CCM's little secret is that Thornton and Recchi are not actually 6 either, more like 5.25... Anything I'm forgetting?

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Virtually every Warrior blade is incorrect as well. We do our best to get the numbers right in our pattern DB. If anyone notices something off, please let us know and we will re-evaluate the curve in question. It's hard to keep current when the same curve may be different between two models from the same brand.

EDIT:

We use Easton numbers as they have been the dominant stick company for a long time.

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But doesn't the "rocker" of the blade help to through off these numbers as well? Obviously, most blades are not just flat - know what I mean?

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But doesn't the "rocker" of the blade help to through off these numbers as well? Obviously, most blades are not just flat - know what I mean?

This is where a lot of the variance from companies comes in. MSH and Easton use the center of the blade as the basis of the measurement.

If the heel or toe rockers a lot more it makes the blade play a lot differently, and that's why rocker needs to be taken out of the equation to measure strictly lie.

So Warrior measuring more toward the heel makes the lie measurements much lower for a curve like the Draper/Sakic, and lower but not as much so for a Fedorov/Zetterberg.

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Virtually every Warrior blade is incorrect as well. We do our best to get the numbers right in our pattern DB. If anyone notices something off, please let us know and we will re-evaluate the curve in question. It's hard to keep current when the same curve may be different between two models from the same brand.

EDIT:

We use Easton numbers as they have been the dominant stick company for a long time.

Appreciate the efforts!

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Virtually every Warrior blade is incorrect as well. We do our best to get the numbers right in our pattern DB. If anyone notices something off, please let us know and we will re-evaluate the curve in question. It's hard to keep current when the same curve may be different between two models from the same brand.

EDIT:

We use Easton numbers as they have been the dominant stick company for a long time.

You guys do have the best resource on the net for that. I, we, all appreciate it. BTW, do you think the Thornton is more 5.5 than 6? It seems very similar to the p106, lie wise, to me.

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The Pattern DB has the Warrior Draper labeled as a 5.5, but which Warrior lie does that correspond with? (4,5, or 6) This has always confused me... :huh:

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Virtually every Warrior blade is incorrect as well. We do our best to get the numbers right in our pattern DB. If anyone notices something off, please let us know and we will re-evaluate the curve in question. It's hard to keep current when the same curve may be different between two models from the same brand.

EDIT:

We use Easton numbers as they have been the dominant stick company for a long time.

You guys do have the best resource on the net for that. I, we, all appreciate it. BTW, do you think the Thornton is more 5.5 than 6? It seems very similar to the p106, lie wise, to me.

I haven't had a dealer that stocked any quantity of CCM stuff here in close to a decade. I will make an effort to double check it.

The Pattern DB has the Warrior Draper labeled as a 5.5, but which Warrior lie does that correspond with? (4,5, or 6) This has always confused me... :huh:

The original 5 lie Draper was the basis for comparison. I have not seen any of the other Draper variations to compare them.

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The Pattern DB has the Warrior Draper labeled as a 5.5, but which Warrior lie does that correspond with? (4,5, or 6) This has always confused me... :huh:

5, warrior 4 = 5, 5 = 5.5, and 6 = 6

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It is all indeed confusing, specially for a novice like me when it comes to lie and even more so when lie is measured differently from a company to another. My friend is getting aPM9 (Malkin) as the lie is supposedly 5 and it should help him keep the puck away from his skates when he's dipsy doodling around people on the ice.

Now since that the thread starter did mention something about explaining what lie meant and it's uses. Here's my question(s).

1 - How does lie affect play as a whole?

2 - Should the lie be different for a shooter, playmaker or a guy who likes to carry and deke?

3 - Is there any corrolation between lie and curve patterns ie: Does a curve pattern work better with a certain lie as opposed to another?

If someone could answer these questions and maybe add even more info it would be greatly appreciated!! (I'm a ex forward, playing goalie who is going back to the forward position because of some nagging goalie injuries that just won't go away)

thanks a bunch

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The only thing that really dictates lie is how you skate (lower to the ice, or hunched over or more up right) and how long you like your stick.

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The only thing that really dictates lie is how you skate (lower to the ice, or hunched over or more up right) and how long you like your stick.

Exactly. Your preferences in length, posture and hand position will determine the proper lie for you.

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allright, being 6 feet tall and playing I'd say upright most of the time and my stick is tall too, what lie would be best for me. It's something I never paid attention to when selecting a stick, I only pretty much always paid attention to the curve and how close to a Hossa it was with some minor exploration here and there. I know that I can't play with a lidstrom curve whatsoever and send pucks whistling in the glass 80% of the time with a Lecavalier...

thanks for any more help you can give me.

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the best way to find your lie is to go to a shop, pick a stick up and see how it sits on the ground. Granted, you need to compensate the skate height by standing on a 3-4inch lift. A proper lie will sit mostly flat on the ground in your skating position.

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The only thing that really dictates lie is how you skate (lower to the ice, or hunched over or more up right) and how long you like your stick.

Exactly. Your preferences in length, posture and hand position will determine the proper lie for you.

Very true. I'd also like to point out that your ability/style may change to the point that you end up needing a 5 lie when you begin but a 6 later on or more likely, vice versa if you are a forward.

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If you happen to be able to test the lies for a practice, at the end of your session check the bottom of the blade. If the tape is worn down on the heel, then the lie is too high, if it's worn down by the toe, it's too low. Ideally, you want the tape to wear down evenly throughout the blade.

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So the CCM Thornton is NOT a 6 lie? Are there any other 6 lies, as listed on the MSH Pattern DB, that aren't accurate?

I ask b/c I use the Pattern DB before I purchase and try out different patterns in 6 lie blades. I'd rather not buy a stick or blade, thinking it's a certain lie, only to find out later, that's not the case.

Any input would be appreciated.

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A good way to figure out and dial in what you need for your style/preferences is using cheap blades in a shaft.

Remember that rocker also plays a big part in what lie you're looking for. Playing in tight would make you want a 6-7 lie, but as soon as you make a reach to intercept a pass you're all the way on the heel with nothing on the ice. You can compromise with a more rockered blade in a lower lie that plays higher at the toe, then as your move away you've still got the same amount of contact but need to use the heel portion to play the puck.

Before I was savvy with what lie worked for me I would use a 5 and wonder why a pass a foot away from my feet was missing the stick entirely. Turns out the blade was going up on the toe as I pulled in and didn't compensate by lowering my top hand or catching behind me and cupping the puck.

I will say though that you should choose the blade profile (lie and rocker) based on how you play and not choose a specific curve and work your game towards that. It may take a little time and money to go through some options, but you can make some educated guesses as to how you should alter the setup based on what you don't like currently.

And when you mentioned going from a Hossa to a Lidstrom- if you're talking about the Mission Hossa it's most likely the loft of the face that would cause your shot to go high. An open face can help you raise the puck much easier, but needs either a more complete wrist roll and follow through, or a lack of it to get the shot low. If you think about the mechanic of the shot, on the follow through with a neutral face the shots coming off the center of the blade will be going where you're pointing. Switching to an open face lifts up the top corner of the blade and makes your point of aim high and wide since the blade isn't curving as much where the puck comes off. This is also why you generally don't see open toe hooks, the bulk of the curvature would be lost as the puck doesn't see as much curvature as what is present at the bottom of the blade.

...and I'm slightly drunk, so I'll re read what I wrote in the morning and see if it makes sense, or let Chadd come by and tell you to disregard my blabberings.

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So the CCM Thornton is NOT a 6 lie? Are there any other 6 lies, as listed on the MSH Pattern DB, that aren't accurate?

I ask b/c I use the Pattern DB before I purchase and try out different patterns in 6 lie blades. I'd rather not buy a stick or blade, thinking it's a certain lie, only to find out later, that's not the case.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thornton is about 5.5, I can post pics tomorrow, if you want.

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A good way to figure out and dial in what you need for your style/preferences is using cheap blades in a shaft.

Remember that rocker also plays a big part in what lie you're looking for. Playing in tight would make you want a 6-7 lie, but as soon as you make a reach to intercept a pass you're all the way on the heel with nothing on the ice. You can compromise with a more rockered blade in a lower lie that plays higher at the toe, then as your move away you've still got the same amount of contact but need to use the heel portion to play the puck.

Before I was savvy with what lie worked for me I would use a 5 and wonder why a pass a foot away from my feet was missing the stick entirely. Turns out the blade was going up on the toe as I pulled in and didn't compensate by lowering my top hand or catching behind me and cupping the puck.

I will say though that you should choose the blade profile (lie and rocker) based on how you play and not choose a specific curve and work your game towards that. It may take a little time and money to go through some options, but you can make some educated guesses as to how you should alter the setup based on what you don't like currently.

And when you mentioned going from a Hossa to a Lidstrom- if you're talking about the Mission Hossa it's most likely the loft of the face that would cause your shot to go high. An open face can help you raise the puck much easier, but needs either a more complete wrist roll and follow through, or a lack of it to get the shot low. If you think about the mechanic of the shot, on the follow through with a neutral face the shots coming off the center of the blade will be going where you're pointing. Switching to an open face lifts up the top corner of the blade and makes your point of aim high and wide since the blade isn't curving as much where the puck comes off. This is also why you generally don't see open toe hooks, the bulk of the curvature would be lost as the puck doesn't see as much curvature as what is present at the bottom of the blade.

...and I'm slightly drunk, so I'll re read what I wrote in the morning and see if it makes sense, or let Chadd come by and tell you to disregard my blabberings.

Thanks!! more tips for me to base my next choice of stick on... but I'm fine with the Hossa, it's the Lecavalier that sends the pucks flying over the net most of the time. I find that the Hossa, Lindros and Datsyuk are the blades I've had the most accuracy and puck control with. However, I may be going to try something else. Perhaps my best bet would be to by a shaft instead of the 10K stick I was about to buy and experiment with different blades. Would certainly be a cheaper alternative to buying a new stick every time I want to try something new.. or I may just stay with the aforementionned patterns and play it safe lol

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