Going to lighter flex?

[Chadd 916]

Really, the radar would be about the only way I could think of to test your shot that wasn't just subjective.

Working with a goalie is a good way too. You may find out one stick is producing a heavier shot or just seems like it gets on him more quickly than he expects. Most of the guys I play with are convinced I have a hard, heavy shot. I don;t want to go anywhere near any technological device that may dispel those notions.

[tareatingrat 4]

Very good point. :D

At the same facility that had the radar gun, they had a stickhandling station that not only confirmed how bad I am, but also put a number to it.

Sad day. :(

[gxc999 7]

Yeah, too whippy of a stick is not good. If you're stick is flexing beyond a certain point, you will actually be losing energy.

I've read the exact opposite. Use the whippiest stick you can w/o breaking it on a regular basis. http://www.thesportjournal.org/article/bio...hich-stick-best

That has my head spinning a little. But one thing sort of confirms what I had thought, "Worobets, Fairbairn, and Stefanyshyn (2006) found that in wrist shots, highly flexible sticks stored the most strain energy during the loading phase. Complicating matters, however, are the authors’ conclusions that the benefits of utilizing a flexible stick did not extend to slap shots, where “it is the athlete and not the equipment influencing shot speed”

I found something interesting, http://books.google.com/books?id=Cx22TcXod...;q=&f=false "Roy and Colleagues recommended that since both the sweep (wrister, 25-34%) and backhand (8-10%) used little deflection of the stick to transmit velocity of the puck, stiff sticks were suitable for these shots." The intriguing thing to me was the finding on how little stick bend influences wristers. I don't even know what to think now, stiff sticks are just as good or better for wristers but worse on slappers? I really don't know, because you also have to factor in variance in technique, that could throw things for a loop as well.

I've always felt like I lost power on a slap shot when using a totally whippy noodle, but my wrister seemed the same or slightly harder. Mister Puck it, care to weigh in??

[tareatingrat 4]

To the above:

I've always felt like I lost power on a slap shot when using a totally whippy noodle, but my wrister seemed the same or slightly harder. Mister Puck it, care to weigh in??

Same here. Again, there's really no way to tell which stick you're better off with until you get some objective evidence.

My slapshot with my 87-flex is abysmal. With my 102-flex, better, but that's all from feel.

In all honesty, when using the radar gun, sometimes I felt like I got everything on a shot, and my actual speed didn't change much. Generally, on all my shots, I was +/- 2 or 3 mph.

I feel my wrister has a quicker release and is faster with my 87-flex. However, if I lean into it, I can get a pretty good shot off with my 102-flex as well.

[Jarick 5]

I think I scored from that far out once. I don't get my eggs at the grocery store; I get right up in that chicken's ass and wait.

Yeah but I'm supposed to be playing "defense" :P

[flyweightphantom 1]

This is definitely a great topic and something i've been racking my brains out about as i'm trying to get a new shaft currently. I've always used stiffer flexed sticks and had great snap shots and wristers and terrible slappers. When i went to the lower flexed sticks i felt worse when catching passes and stick handling but my slappers were better.

[jeffw 1]

I just came back from stick time. I usually use a 102 flex Vapor stick but today went with my 89 flex one90 back up stick.

For me, with the 102 wristers & snap shots come off better, slap shots are better with the 89. I also like the 102 better for puck feel. The 89 just feels noodly & sloppy.

YMMV

[Jarick 5]

That has my head spinning a little. But one thing sort of confirms what I had thought, "Worobets, Fairbairn, and Stefanyshyn (2006) found that in wrist shots, highly flexible sticks stored the most strain energy during the loading phase. Complicating matters, however, are the authors’ conclusions that the benefits of utilizing a flexible stick did not extend to slap shots, where “it is the athlete and not the equipment influencing shot speed”

I found something interesting, http://books.google.com/books?id=Cx22TcXod...;q=&f=false "Roy and Colleagues recommended that since both the sweep (wrister, 25-34%) and backhand (8-10%) used little deflection of the stick to transmit velocity of the puck, stiff sticks were suitable for these shots." The intriguing thing to me was the finding on how little stick bend influences wristers. I don't even know what to think now, stiff sticks are just as good or better for wristers but worse on slappers? I really don't know, because you also have to factor in variance in technique, that could throw things for a loop as well.

I've always felt like I lost power on a slap shot when using a totally whippy noodle, but my wrister seemed the same or slightly harder. Mister Puck it, care to weigh in??

I may be way off base on this one, but I think it depends on your definition of a wrist shot.

If a pure wrist shot is launching the puck forward based on leverage (from the push-pull of the hands and rolling over wrists/forearms), too much whip would create a lot of lag and throw the puck off target. A stiffer stick could improve release and accuracy.

This is what I found as I went back and forth between a 75 flex Sickick, a 67 flex Vapor, and a 90+ flex Sherwood 7000. My hardest wrist shot was actually with the Sherwood which didn't flex at all, even though it was cut way down and I'm only 5'8.

My definition of a snap shot is storing a lot of power in the shaft and releasing it with an abbreviated push-pull. For this shot, I had the most power with the 75 flex, followed by the 67 and the 90+. I think for this, the 67 was getting too much whip and torquing off target. The 90 wasn't flexing at all and was literally painful to shoot with.

For the slapper, it's similar to the snapper in that it is storing energy in the shaft and releasing it. But because you're storing a lot more energy (more muscles and windup involved), that might be why so many more people like a bit stiffer stick for this shot. In my unscientific tests, the 75 and 90+ were about tied and the 67 flex was way behind.

But those are my half-brained theories not based on any science, just hundreds of hours at the shooting range. In a game, the shots all end up some bastardized version of wrist/snap, snap/slap, etc. So I go for the 75 flex stick that feels like it has a little give, but I still have to put a little power into it.

[flyers10 57]

All this talk of lighter flex has made me want to try it myself. I currently use a One95 P88 87 uncut and a U+ Recchi 85 cut 1.5 inches. I don't want to drop a ton of cash in case I don't like a 77/75 flex, so what would anyone recommend to try within $50-$65. I'd prefer to find either a P92 or P88 like curve. I saw a RBK 5k (2008 yr) for $57 but don't know much about RBK's mid/lower line.

[Jarick 5]

Vapor XXV's are on clearance for $60-ish, but they feel a bit stiffer than most 75/77 flexes.

[gxc999 7]

I've read 3 or 4 studies that are way over my head- but one thing they all said, more blade contact means harder and more accurate shot, on the wrister and slapper. So I'm going to focus on doing a better job of that.

[raygunpk 0]

my technique changes for the slapshot. with the whippy stick, i do lot more pulling with the upper hand. whereas the stiffer stiff involves more pushing with the lower hand. i have to put way less focus on strength with the lower flex, or it will just along the ice.

wrist/snaps are also generally better with a stiffer stick, but that involves time to get it off. i just don't have the time in the game to get open and pick my spots, i also don't have enough skill to get set and load a shot as quickly as i'd like. the good thing about the whippy stick is that i can just let a shot go very quickly without even trying or leaning into it.

and not trying is the best way to live life.

[gxc999 7]

I feel like a higher flex gives me a quicker release and have heard a lot of people say the same. I feel like to get a better shot with a lower flex, which is possible for wristers, just takes a lot longer.

[tooomey 1]

There are alot of good responses in this thread and I recently changed from a 85 to 75 and am not really sure what the best flex is for me either. Although the game to practice theory sounds about right with loading it correctly. I dont want to through a wrench in this thread but I was at my LHS and he had an ovechkin one95 77 flex. It was not that tall for him being 6'2 220. Anyways he may have the best wrist shot in the NHL. Im sure he could shoot good with a aluminum stick but still. Something to think about...

[gxc999 7]

There are alot of good responses in this thread and I recently changed from a 85 to 75 and am not really sure what the best flex is for me either. Although the game to practice theory sounds about right with loading it correctly. I dont want to through a wrench in this thread but I was at my LHS and he had an ovechkin one95 77 flex. It was not that tall for him being 6'2 220. Anyways he may have the best wrist shot in the NHL. Im sure he could shoot good with a aluminum stick but still. Something to think about...

I've also seen his "game used" 80, 87, and 102's.

[Chadd 916]

There are alot of good responses in this thread and I recently changed from a 85 to 75 and am not really sure what the best flex is for me either. Although the game to practice theory sounds about right with loading it correctly. I dont want to through a wrench in this thread but I was at my LHS and he had an ovechkin one95 77 flex. It was not that tall for him being 6'2 220. Anyways he may have the best wrist shot in the NHL. Im sure he could shoot good with a aluminum stick but still. Something to think about...

I've also seen his "game used" 80, 87, and 102's.

He usually uses 75ish flexes from what I understand. Look at his shots, he torques the hell out of his stick and the shots come off like lasers. There is that lag from the stick load but the velocity is tremendous.

[gxc999 7]

There are alot of good responses in this thread and I recently changed from a 85 to 75 and am not really sure what the best flex is for me either. Although the game to practice theory sounds about right with loading it correctly. I dont want to through a wrench in this thread but I was at my LHS and he had an ovechkin one95 77 flex. It was not that tall for him being 6'2 220. Anyways he may have the best wrist shot in the NHL. Im sure he could shoot good with a aluminum stick but still. Something to think about...

I've also seen his "game used" 80, 87, and 102's.

He usually uses 75ish flexes from what I understand. Look at his shots, he torques the hell out of his stick and the shots come off like lasers. There is that lag from the stick load but the velocity is tremendous.

Yeah, you're probably right. He's able to create enough space and time to give himself time to load up as much as he wants!

[flyweightphantom 1]

He can shoot with a rug hockey stick if he wanted lol!

[SouthpawTRK 1]

There are alot of good responses in this thread and I recently changed from a 85 to 75 and am not really sure what the best flex is for me either. Although the game to practice theory sounds about right with loading it correctly. I dont want to through a wrench in this thread but I was at my LHS and he had an ovechkin one95 77 flex. It was not that tall for him being 6'2 220. Anyways he may have the best wrist shot in the NHL. Im sure he could shoot good with a aluminum stick but still. Something to think about...

I've also seen his "game used" 80, 87, and 102's.

He usually uses 75ish flexes from what I understand. Look at his shots, he torques the hell out of his stick and the shots come off like lasers. There is that lag from the stick load but the velocity is tremendous.

So if Ovechkin is 6'2" 220lbs and generally uses a flex in the mid 70's, would it be safe to say that most recreational players are using a shaft that is too stiff? Or do some recreational players use a shaft that is stiffer due to either personal preference or possibly improper technique?

[B-Nads 0]

I went to a lhs and picked up a price-point 100 (Easton S11) to compare to the RBK Sickick 7k Reg I have. The Sickick is supposed to have a low kick-point, so I figured it was as close to apples and apples as I was willing to spend on the experiment. :P

My finding were this - every shot I tried - snap, wrister, and slap, were obviously harder and more accurate witht he 100 flex stick for me. My first slapshot on the outdoor rink rung off the crossbar and landed in a guy's parking lot 50 yards away from the rink...luckily his car wasn't there.

I tried the slow-down suggestion on wristers, and what I found was I had better speed and accuracy using my normal method and the slower method with the stiffer stick - no contest. This drill did improve my accuracy with the lighter flex, but didn'T give me a overly noticable change in speed. This is definitely a technique issue - mine sucks, and the stiffer flex just seems to forgive that more and let my arm strength make up for the poor technique.

Thanks for the help, guys...much appreciated.

[gxc999 7]

I was using my new cnt's, about 105-107 flex, in warm ups last night. My slapper was clearly worse and my wrister was slightly better. I'm really buying into this theory. I'll work on testing it more in the future!

[Jarick 5]

The s11 feels about 10-15 flex whippier than listed...the 85 flex one was whippier than my 77 flex vapor xxv.

[B-Nads 0]

The s11 feels about 10-15 flex whippier than listed...the 85 flex one was whippier than my 77 flex vapor xxv.

As of right now, it is a good bit stiffer than my 7k reg, but it is brand new.

[kenneth 5]

There are alot of good responses in this thread and I recently changed from a 85 to 75 and am not really sure what the best flex is for me either. Although the game to practice theory sounds about right with loading it correctly. I dont want to through a wrench in this thread but I was at my LHS and he had an ovechkin one95 77 flex. It was not that tall for him being 6'2 220. Anyways he may have the best wrist shot in the NHL. Im sure he could shoot good with a aluminum stick but still. Something to think about...

I've also seen his "game used" 80, 87, and 102's.

He usually uses 75ish flexes from what I understand. Look at his shots, he torques the hell out of his stick and the shots come off like lasers. There is that lag from the stick load but the velocity is tremendous.

So if Ovechkin is 6'2" 220lbs and generally uses a flex in the mid 70's, would it be safe to say that most recreational players are using a shaft that is too stiff? Or do some recreational players use a shaft that is stiffer due to either personal preference or possibly improper technique?

i think it's preference and your body adjusting to it, cause imo Semin (who is smaller than Ovi) has a better wrist shot and he uses 102 flex i believe?

[gxc999 7]

There are alot of good responses in this thread and I recently changed from a 85 to 75 and am not really sure what the best flex is for me either. Although the game to practice theory sounds about right with loading it correctly. I dont want to through a wrench in this thread but I was at my LHS and he had an ovechkin one95 77 flex. It was not that tall for him being 6'2 220. Anyways he may have the best wrist shot in the NHL. Im sure he could shoot good with a aluminum stick but still. Something to think about...

I've also seen his "game used" 80, 87, and 102's.

He usually uses 75ish flexes from what I understand. Look at his shots, he torques the hell out of his stick and the shots come off like lasers. There is that lag from the stick load but the velocity is tremendous.

So if Ovechkin is 6'2" 220lbs and generally uses a flex in the mid 70's, would it be safe to say that most recreational players are using a shaft that is too stiff? Or do some recreational players use a shaft that is stiffer due to either personal preference or possibly improper technique?

i think it's preference and your body adjusting to it, cause imo Semin (who is smaller than Ovi) has a better wrist shot and he uses 102 flex i believe?

Matt Duchene is using a 120 flex and he's approx 190 lbs. I'm still going with the newest theory, stiffer= good for wrist, flexier= good for slap.