Bauer and Malkin?

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

The technical term is "oligopoly", and it basically means there are a few big names selling very similar items. Similar industries would be Coke and Pepsi, toothpaste, cars, etc. Firms typically spend the most on advertising in these industries as a way to separate themselves from the competitors, and they will typically try to add newer features and "improvements" to keep the prices going up rather than competing for lowest costs.

lol, the technical term is more like "cartel". it may not be blatant collusion, since it's illegal as fuck, but evvvveryone knows which price point that new stick/skate will fall... see: Total One, U+CL

[furlanitalia 1]

Agreed, but is it really that ridiculous that in 5 years the cost of the highest end stick has gone up $100 and the highest end skate has gone up $250? (I'm comparing an original Synergy ($200) to an S19 ($269-$299) and Vapor XX skates($599) to Totalones($849), in CDN prices.)

I'm not sure if this is collusion of any sorts, or a lack of competing for lower costs so much as the product has simply improved to a point where it is more expensive to produce. Did the one90 not require a machine built by Bauer to manufacture the boot? And does Easton not use a proprietary Therma Tec process in building their sticks?

Either way, I agree with Jarick that I'm not going to buy into Warrior's marketing campaign of "You'll be cool if you use this". I will buy into Bauer's though because I know I am getting a good product worn by the NHLs top athletes. My bantam aged brother though has warrior shoulder pads, shin pads, hat, hoodie, and stick. He can't tell me who wears warrior but he knows that it is "cool". We are the exception here, and unfortunately for the hockey gear community that means we will continue to see kids buying gear based squarely on what Ovechkin or Crosby wears, and not what is right for them.

[Bravada 442 0]

lol, the technical term is more like "cartel". it may not be blatant collusion, since it's illegal as fuck, but evvvveryone knows which price point that new stick/skate will fall... see: Total One, U+CL

Which is no where near collusion.

I know the sun is going to come up tomorrow, but that doesn't mean it and the other stars have a back room deal deciding who will rise in the east tomorrow and who won't.

I'm being overally silly, but it gets the general point across. When the iPad was introduced, everyone had the price points pretty much pegged. Does that mean there is some sort of collusion somewhere? No.

[furlanitalia 1]

I agree with most of what you say but I don't think anyone pegged the iPad's entry level price of 499.

[walkerdb7 20]

It works in EVERY market. The fact that certain players buy certain brands based on what "their hero" is using proves it. That is why companies are paying professional hockey players IN ALL MARKETS to use their equipment.

I do private lessons and am on the ice during team practices all over DC and MD. I work with atoms up through junior. I majored in marketing at college and take notice of what gear is "hot" with the kids eyes. I'd love to work in the industry someday...

I see alot of yellow laces and tongues out, but very few ccm products. I would say Reebok skates outsell CCM, but nothing is close to Bauer. I agree OV is a great brand icon and may boost sales a bit, but I don't think it's that profound of an effect. I think it's more the problem that CCM is not a hot brand.

OVs bad boy image seems perfect for warrior or would be a great pick up bauer. OV v Crosby on the ice and in gear wars.

Can JR or someone working at a retail level confirm that CCM does not do well at a retail level?

[halfmoonyote 0]

Interesting thread.

As the guy above won't use Warrior because of their marketing, and instead looks for Bauer, I'm the complete opposite.

I'll never use a Bauer stick because - in my experience - their sticks are overhyped junk. I'll choose Warrior and TPS over any Bauer product 8 days a week. Yes, I understand the One95 won MSH Stick of The Year, but that doesn't change my opinion on that stick, or any other Bauer stick. For me, it comes down to 8 parts performance, 2 parts ideology. That's how I make my buying decisions. Above that, I am fiercely loyal to certain brands.

Please save the 'Look how many NHL'ers use Bauer sticks' argument because it's lost on me. Trust me, half those guys aren't using Bauer sticks because they 'prefer' them. They could use a tree branch and get the same result. I don't care what any pro chooses to use. As Sublitwill pointed out earlier, half of the time buying decisions are simply made on who is using what, so don't think it's not calculated.

However, keeping it real, I'm not in any manu's target demo anyway, so it doesn't much matter what I think in the grand scheme of things.

[furlanitalia 1]

Interesting thread.

As the guy above won't use Warrior because of their marketing, and instead looks for Bauer, I'm the complete opposite.

I'll never use a Bauer stick because - in my experience - their sticks are overhyped junk. I'll choose Warrior and TPS over any Bauer product 8 days a week. Yes, I understand the One95 won MSH Stick of The Year, but that doesn't change my opinion on that stick, or any other Bauer stick. For me, it comes down to 8 parts performance, 2 parts ideology. That's how I make my buying decisions. Above that, I am fiercely loyal to certain brands.

Please save the 'Look how many NHL'ers use Bauer sticks' argument because it's lost on me. Trust me, half those guys aren't using Bauer sticks because they 'prefer' them. They could use a tree branch and get the same result. I don't care what any pro chooses to use. As Sublitwill pointed out earlier, half of the time buying decisions are simply made on who is using what, so don't think it's not calculated.

However, keeping it real, I'm not in any manu's target demo anyway, so it doesn't much matter what I think in the grand scheme of things.

Not going to disagree with you. I base most of my purchases on your same philosophy, but I myself am also extremely loyal to certain brands. They're just different brands then yours lol

[halfmoonyote 0]

Not going to disagree with you. I base most of my purchases on your same philosophy, but I myself am also extremely loyal to certain brands. They're just different brands then yours lol

I hear you brother, and even though we differ on what we like to use, I definitely respect your approach.

[dsjunior1388 81]

However, keeping it real, I'm not in any manu's target demo anyway, so it doesn't much matter what I think in the grand scheme of things.

On the contrary, you're the knowledgeable customer, the one who's not afraid to spend money on his gear because you know what works and what doesn't. (I may be assuming about you but that's the MSH demographic.) Retailers covet guys like us because we're the ones in the locker room who have answers when a guy needs a new stick or new skates. I think you can definitely see that with the product pushed through here, and most of the companies have a presence here to keep an eye on us. I know for a fact that Bauer would love to change your tune, given the chance, because they know you are a customer that can have an impact on other customers.

[Chadd 916]

On the contrary, you're the knowledgeable customer, the one who's not afraid to spend money on his gear because you know what works and what doesn't. (I may be assuming about you but that's the MSH demographic.) Retailers covet guys like us because we're the ones in the locker room who have answers when a guy needs a new stick or new skates. I think you can definitely see that with the product pushed through here, and most of the companies have a presence here to keep an eye on us. I know for a fact that Bauer would love to change your tune, given the chance, because they know you are a customer that can have an impact on other customers.

Once you are playing adult rec hockey, you aren't part of the target demo. The money in this industry is made off the kids.

[epstud74 24]

Yea, I understand what you're saying Chadd, but the kids usually arent in the high end stuff IMO.. In my experience, the kids usually are in a mix-match of gear. Last night all the 10-13 yr olds at practice were in old Koho/Bauer type gloves and a wide variety of skates ranging from older Bauer 6000s to Vapor XXIIs, to Graf 705s and Bauer X40s. The only thing "newer" I see on the majority of these kids is their helmet. I'm guessing it may vary from region to region, but by far, the majority of youth kids here are not in top of the line stuff, but either their older brother's gloves and skates. This may change when you get into the more affluent areas of town though.

Judging from spending a lot of time at the local rinks, the people who do buy the latest gear tend to be the HS/JR players and adult rec league guys (Mainly sticks) Adult league guys probably do not upgrade their helmets, skates or protective as much, but I see a lot of new high end sticks.

[Chadd 916]

Yea, I understand what you're saying Chadd, but the kids usually arent in the high end stuff IMO.. In my experience, the kids usually are in a mix-match of gear. Last night all the 10-13 yr olds at practice were in old Koho/Bauer type gloves and a wide variety of skates ranging from older Bauer 6000s to Vapor XXIIs, to Graf 705s and Bauer X40s. The only thing "newer" I see on the majority of these kids is their helmet. I'm guessing it may vary from region to region, but by far, the majority of youth kids here are not in top of the line stuff, but either their older brother's gloves and skates. This may change when you get into the more affluent areas of town though.

Judging from spending a lot of time at the local rinks, the people who do buy the latest gear tend to be the HS/JR players and adult rec league guys (Mainly sticks) Adult league guys probably do not upgrade their helmets, skates or protective as much, but I see a lot of new high end sticks.

The more mature the market, the more likely that is to be the case.

Nearly all of the kids in the top level programs around here are in the top two models of skates and sticks. That also includes the kids that come in from other cities to play those teams as well. Teams from South Jersey to Philly to Maryland and Virginia.I also see the majority of the HS kids in the mid to high end gear, though at a lower percentage than the travel hockey kids doing the same thing. The house league kids are usually in mid-low end stuff and adults are all across the board.

[epstud74 24]

Yea, one thing seems to be a constant.. The HS level and up kids usually are in top of the line skates and sticks. A lot of team orders in Bauer 4 rolls, Warrior and Reebok gloves. The schools seem to stick with Tackla pants. The biggest gear whores I've run into in adult rec leagues are goalies and 20 something players. The old guys seem to be in ancient Jofa Gretzky helmets and sweatpants/shins.

[furlanitalia 1]

Kids don't buy used gear anymore, everyone has a one piece, and rep kids at all levels are in the top two models of skates/gloves/sticks/etc. They are the target demographic, and while not everyone can afford the high end stuff I wouldn't be surprised if it accounted for 25% or more of all gear sold/worn (at least out here in and around Vancouver).

Now, in beer league it's a little different but there's a guy on my team with a bauer ID stick because he wanted the curve. At least every team has someone in one95's. We aren't the target demographic but I'd agree that guys under 30 spend money on gear.

[walkerdb7 20]

CCM/Reebok aren't hot brands in any segment outside of jerseys (by default) or goal. The fact that you're saying that you see a lot of yellow laces and tongues out shows that there is some type of profound effect that Ovechvin is creating, even at such an insignificant level (lace sales).

that was exactly my point. People may want to look and play like OV, but if his stick/skates are not percieved as "cool" or "cutting edge", it's not going to get them in his gear. You'll have White tape on just the toe of s19s and toungues out yellow laces in X60s.

Personally, I love seeing the gear alot of the second and third liners wear. It speaks more to me about what's trusted and proven than then the guys coveted by pro reps and marketers...

[furlanitalia 1]

that was exactly my point. People may want to look and play like OV, but if his stick/skates are not percieved as "cool" or "cutting edge", it's not going to get them in his gear. You'll have White tape on just the toe of s19s and toungues out yellow laces in X60s.

Personally, I love seeing the gear alot of the second and third liners wear. It speaks more to me about what's trusted and proven than then the guys coveted by pro reps and marketers...

That's a great point. A tonne of kids may adore Ovi, but they use their one95's with only the toe taped. Maybe that's a bad example because he used a one95 but they do stuff to their gear to look like him instead of buying his gear.

[epstud74 24]

Perceptions are usually flawed IMO. I do think the CCM U+ skates are cutting edge even though I do not wear them. Also, the past reputation of a product may carry the name for some time, but are the old Jofa/New Reebok protective better in quality than the new product from Bauer, Easton or Warrior?

[Jarick 5]

Oh, there's no cartel/collusion going on. If that were the case, there wouldn't be price point sticks and skates.

[walkerdb7 20]

Perceptions are usually flawed IMO. I do think the CCM U+ skates are cutting edge even though I do not wear them. Also, the past reputation of a product may carry the name for some time, but are the old Jofa/New Reebok protective better in quality than the new product from Bauer, Easton or Warrior?

not saying the U+ is bad... I'm saying it's not as advanced as the one95 or up coming totalOne. I also don't believe the u+ has the it factor of the one series.

OV could probably convince kids to drink Vitamin Water instead of Gatorade more easily than he could convince them to put down thier new bauer skates.

[epstud74 24]

What is so advanced about the One95 compared to the CCM U+?

You may be right about the "it" factor, but I fail to see how the Bauer skates are more technologically advanced?

The concept behind the fit of the U+ skate is further advanced than any of the other brands IMO..The Bauer skate may use different materials and have the super duper new Fusion holder/blade, but what else?

[furlanitalia 1]

Bauer skates are more advanced. It's that simple. U+ Foam is great, and may provide a great fit but it's nothing that the one95 can't do. The difference is the one95 and upcoming totalone provide maximum energy transfer to the ice without the boot breaking down. They provide a perfect correlation between the player and the ice so that whatever you do, the skate does.

Ultimately, I'm not saying the U+ isn't a great skate. It is. Bauer skates just do everything the U+ does and a lot more.

[walkerdb7 20]

Bauer skates are more advanced. It's that simple. U+ Foam is great, and may provide a great fit but it's nothing that the one95 can't do. The difference is the one95 and upcoming totalone provide maximum energy transfer to the ice without the boot breaking down. They provide a perfect correlation between the player and the ice so that whatever you do, the skate does.

Ultimately, I'm not saying the U+ isn't a great skate. It is. Bauer skates just do everything the U+ does and a lot more.

couldn't have said it better. I'm not ripping on U + skates at all... They just arnt the market leader and I don't think OV could change that. RBK has the two most marketable names in the game wearing thier skate brands and it does not appear to have changed much at retail...

Anyone in retail, feel free to chime in from a sales stand point.

[Jarick 5]

All the technology in the One95 doesn't do a bit of good if it doesn't fit your foot.

[furlanitalia 1]

All the technology in the One95 doesn't do a bit of good if it doesn't fit your foot.

Agreed, but it doesn't discount the fact that it is a better skate.

[ironslave 2]

Does Drew Doughty have a Bauer contract? I don't see him listed on Bauer's site as one of their athletes (they have Jack Johnson), yet he's decked out in Bauer.