Holding other players stick down with yours?

[MTG35 0]

The other night I'm playing offense and the puck goes past me and the other teams defensemen. So as we are both skating to get it he chops down on my stick with his and just holds my stick down against the ice for like 30 feet and neither of us ends up being able to play the puck.

At the time I didn't care and things just went on but then someone in a game a couple days later saw it happen to someone else and asked me on the bench if its legal to do that.

I looked at the NHL rules and there is nothing really clear about lifting sticks or holding them down. Although, holding it down does seem to somewhat fall into the realm of slashing. I say that because it was defined as chopping at the hands, body, or STICK.

So whats the good word. I've done it to others myself so I'm just wondering if I should stop.

[furlanitalia 1]

As a ref, I think this would be a call that could be borderline on how it happens. If two players are going to the puck and one ties up the other in a way that takes him out of the play then I would "consider" calling an interference. If he chops your stick out of your hands then that's a slash. It all depends on the severity of stick on stick and the length of time you're "interfered" with.

EDIT: Again though that's my opinion as a ref. As a player I would just see it as a part of the game and battle through it by either taking body position on the player or taking one hand off my stick to slide it free.

[chk hrd 164]

if he held it down with the heal it could be interference, if he turned it over and held it with the toe it could be hooking. I would say it is up to the ref's discrection on where, when, how and how long.

[Orange&Black 1]

Very common in my beer league, usually goes on in front of the net. Sometimes it does go into the realm of blatant interference, but it usually isn't called.

[Dubbs 0]

I've also reffed a little, and as far as the stick press portion, as long as he isn't impeding your skating ability, there's no penalty that i know of. If however he turned the blade over so the toe was was on the ice and the heel was in the air (i dont know how else to really explain it) and keeping you from moving your stick then it's a hooking call, that's how it was explained to me in a seminar at least, I'm not certified so I'd ask for confirmation from someone here? The only real penalty in the way you're describing it would be the slash, as best I can tell.

[shotty 7]

if i'm envisioning it correctly, it's the exact opposite of lifting someone's stick as a means of breaking up a pass or possession. i don't think it's a penal move, because he's not actually impeding your progress. he's just not allowing you to play the puck with your stick. he's essentially out muscling you.

a big part of being effective on the ice is being able to put yourself in a position where you can get to and control the puck, so if some dude has his stick on top of yours, holding it down, you need to move your stick. it's a battle for control here, and with his stick on top of yours, he literally has the upper hand. i can see how it could be annoying, and it's not exactly a skilled approach to the game, but he obviously lacks in ability to beat you on foot speed, so you need to utilize yours.

[Darkbyte 0]

^ thats what Im thinking too.

If his stick slides up your shaft and hits your glove, does it then enter the relm of slashing?

[furlanitalia 1]

Yes. Same with if he whacks your gloves or pushes them with the toe of his stick.

[tareatingrat 4]

I would assume that's just battling.

A lot of times guys will go for a stick check, and I'll just lean on my stick a bit so they can't lift it.

If I got a penalty for that, I'd probably be pretty pissed.

[furlanitalia 1]

I would assume that's just battling.

A lot of times guys will go for a stick check, and I'll just lean on my stick a bit so they can't lift it.

If I got a penalty for that, I'd probably be pretty pissed.

the difference is your trying to prevent a guy lifting your stick opposed to a guy holding your stick in place. But I do agree it is nothing more then battling

[zebra_steve 11]

A "stick press" is legal, but that does sound like it borders on interference or hooking... 30 feet is basically top of the circles to the end boards. If both of you are skating hard to the puck, then to me it sounds like the normal battle for the puck at the upper level games. Pull your stick out or skate hard through it.... By skating hard through it it may just ride up your shaft and the blade could hook your hands potentially drawing a hooking penalty.... This one really falls into a gray area of game management where we look for change of possession, and competitive advantage - bear in mind that the action is technically perfectly legal , albeit very frustrating.

[tareatingrat 4]

the difference is your trying to prevent a guy lifting your stick opposed to a guy holding your stick in place. But I do agree it is nothing more then battling

Yeah, but to the other guy trying to take the puck from me, I'm now holding his stick down.

Good. F*** him. :D

[Chadd 916]

This one really falls into a gray area of game management where we look for change of possession, and competitive advantage - bear in mind that the action is technically perfectly legal , albeit very frustrating.

But it's only supposed to be legal if the puck is there, the gray area isn't supposed to be very large anymore.

[cptjeff 0]

if i'm envisioning it correctly, it's the exact opposite of lifting someone's stick as a means of breaking up a pass or possession. i don't think it's a penal move, because he's not actually impeding your progress. he's just not allowing you to play the puck with your stick. he's essentially out muscling you.

a big part of being effective on the ice is being able to put yourself in a position where you can get to and control the puck, so if some dude has his stick on top of yours, holding it down, you need to move your stick. it's a battle for control here, and with his stick on top of yours, he literally has the upper hand. i can see how it could be annoying, and it's not exactly a skilled approach to the game, but he obviously lacks in ability to beat you on foot speed, so you need to utilize yours.

Heh... No. I do that all the time and I can beat just about anybody with foot speed. I have caught up to guys on breakaways and used that kind of stick check to keep them from getting a shot off.

Yes, it tends to piss them off. No, I'm not going to stop doing it.

I will say though that I was called for it once, ref called it slashing, and it was no more then what the OP was describing. So be aware there is a gray area where a ref might decide to call it.

[shotty 7]

^ thats what Im thinking too.

If his stick slides up your shaft and hits your glove, does it then enter the relm of slashing?

yeah i'd say as soon as the stick hits anything on your person, it can be penalized.

there's WAY too much hooking, holding and slashing in our league though. the only time it gets called is when a player falls down or has his stick broken.

[zebra_steve 11]

But it's only supposed to be legal if the puck is there, the gray area isn't supposed to be very large anymore.

Agreed, in a U16\U18 AA or AAA game, or a good High school game you have the players moving hard and fast while angling shoulder to shoulder and jockeying for stick position.... all of which is legal.... you can manage this game or get in the way of it.... If you have good flow to the game and no great competitive advantage being gained then let them battle. Now I am talking good fast hockey here and it's stick on stick with the blades on the ice - not up on the hands, knees, or torso...If you have less skill going on and you have what amounts to a hook with the blade on the ice then call it. One has the everyone's feet moving and both players battling (no competitive advantage gained here), the other has the stick checker stop skating and the net result is the non offending player is forced to quit skating or is prevented from making a play (competitive advantage gained through the impeding of the ability to move to the puck). Sometime you'll see a stick check that the player skates through and he ends up getting significantly impeded on the way through. Now we have a hook for sure. Definitely a bit of judgment there... this is where the game management and "non-call" come into play at upper levels. Normally you'll be talking 10 feet or so while moving fast, not 30 feet..... Most calls at the lower level are much more black and white.

Now the question I have is are we better off now or when they first tightened the standard down?

[Chadd 916]

If you have good flow to the game and no great competitive advantage being gained then let them battle.

The creation of a "battle" and elimination of skill is a win for the defender. While flow is important, it shouldn't be the goal. Fair, equal and accurate implementation of the rules should be the goal.

Now the question I have is are we better off now or when they first tightened the standard down?

In most upper level games around here you would never know there was a new standard. In fact, most of the officials I know refused to call the game any differently, including those that ran the annual seminar.

[MTG35 0]

As it turns out I happen to have video from the incident. Although after looking at it the video shows I remembered some of the story wrong. The guy who held my stick down was able to play the puck once we got there.

Like I said this isn't a big deal to me I was just curious if it is considered clean play or not.

So from the video you see I dump the puck in from the blue line and then go to chase. He chops down on my stick and holds it while basically angling me off and then plays the puck. The video angle isn't great for seeing the continuation of him holding my stick down but you see him clearly chop down.

Does the video change your thoughts or is it pretty much what you pictured from the description?

Video Removed.

[furlanitalia 1]

I'd be tempted to call that interference as he stopped moving his feet in an attempt to impede your progress. It does however look like you both get to the puck at the same time. I'm sure the angle is off but that, in my books, is borderline slash or interference. My recommendation would be to just out hustle him though as he stops moving his feet.

[hockeyherb 1]

Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

[gxc999 7]

But it's only supposed to be legal if the puck is there, the gray area isn't supposed to be very large anymore.

I agree completely. It's obviously a form of obstruction when you're not near the puck. And to pull it off as you're both skating down for more than 30 feet merely sounds like the guy wanted to hogtie you without taking much risk.

[zebra_steve 11]

MTG35,

What I see is that you dumped it and he got body position on you. Both of you are skating on the puck and you put your stick across him one handed (which has me thinking about a potential penalty on you depending on how the play unfolds). Then he comes down over top with both hands on his stick to pin\press your stick... puck is still a good distance away. Both of you have stopped moving your feet. It's kinda hard to make my mind up from the view video, 'cuz the first thing that comes to mind is "just pull your stick out from behind his", but I'm saying probably interference because of the press and the feet not moving which slowed you down. Now, if you had kept your feet moving as you went for the puck it would be much more clear cut (or you just plain would have walked away with the biscuit)..

[tareatingrat 4]

I didn't see anything at all in that video.

[MTG35 0]

zebra_steve, good points about keeping myself moving etc. I really do need to work on that as lately it seems I get thrown off by any type of impedience. Although since it was just pickup when guys get a little overaggressive I usually just let them go on by so that no one gets hurt etc. In those situations I try to take it as fun only and just extra ice time. So although I play hard I make some different choices throughout the game to keep things on the fun level and not so serious.

Like I said I only thought about it after since someone else asked me. None of the games I play in are officiated so it is up to us players to keep it clean. I like to think of myself as a clean player and since I have used the same move myself before I wanted to make sure its considered clean.

After everyones input it seems, so far, that its a bit borderline to come in that early on the stick but once a little closer to the puck then its just fair stick play. And keep moving so as not to impead the other players progress.

[technophile 0]

IIRC when the rule changes/emphasis came in (2007-8 maybe?) there was a USAH "situations" video that basically said in regards to both lifting the stick, and holding it down, that it was fine if they were actively preventing you playing the puck (i.e. puck was either being shot/passed towards you or you had possession/were fighting for the puck) then there was no penalty. If they're not immediately denying you playing the puck, then it's an interference penalty.

Calls seem to have slacked off a bit in that regard, but that's still how I play it and how I would call it if I were a ref, absent explicit instructions to the contrary from my refs' organization.