Players Opinions

[Big Jim 1]

I just don"t agree with this. This is professional sports. I think at this stage in the game, you have at least 100 guys who are even in that aspect, and it's incredibly difficult to measure. A lot of people want to look at the guys who celebrate the wins, and cry, throw tantrums, or sulk after losses. Crosby is an emotional player, and that has worked for a lot of guys. But Nick Lidstrom, I've never seen him look angry, upset, or show any emotion outside of a meak smile after a goal or a win. Some guys, the Yzermans and Roys, wear their emotions on their sleeves. Others, like Ron Francis, thrive on keeping an even keel, kind of a "never let them know you're hurt" mentality. You see one guy jubilant after a win and looking crushed after a loss, that doesn't mean he wanted to win more than the guy who isn't moping, it just means he's responding differently.

I see what you're saying but I don't think that's what we were refering to. At least it wasn't for me. Crosby just has more of a winning drive. If we were talking about who celebrates more, obviously the nod would go to Ovi. I'm not against his celebrations fwiw either.

[dsjunior1388 81]

I see what you're saying but I don't think that's what we were refering to. At least it wasn't for me. Crosby just has more of a winning drive. If we were talking about who celebrates more, obviously the nod would go to Ovi. I'm not against his celebrations fwiw either.

Do you really think Crosby wants to win more than Nick Lidstrom, or Martin Brodeur, or Ryan Getzlaf, or even RJ Umberger? I just don't think that you can point to one guy who wants to win and hates to lose more than any other. I don't think it's any easier for Drew Miller to take a loss than it is for Joe Thornton, and I'd be willing to bet losing the Stanley Cup sucked just as much last season for Kirk Maltby as it did for Henrik Zetterberg. You don't have to be a star to be a competitor.

[Trooper 8]

The difference to me is that after a game you look at the score sheet and you're surprised that Sid picked up three points and you're surprised that Ovechkin only had three points. There's no doubt that Sid is a special player, but Ovechkin has a special quality about him that I've never seen in another NHL player.

I think most people recognize this, and that's what makes them different players. There are times Crosby is doing well, it's just in the corners and not that obvious. He can go through a game and get shut down and frustrated in situations that are visible but still kill himself chasing down pucks, etc. That, I think, is what gives people the perception he has drive, never giving up on plays. It doesn't mean he has more drive, it's just when people put out a lot of effort to make plays that don't come with the glory, people perceive that as drive. It's like Pete Rose to a degree.

AO does have something special, it's just different. He's the only player I've ever seen take a wrister on net as he gained the red line that made me tense up. I actually thought it might go in. Plus he's more flamboyant than most hockey players which sets him apart.

[Jason Harris 31]

I'm just excited as a pig in shit to witness both of these players and to be able to see their careers in their entirety. It will be interesting to see where they land "among the stars."

What do people feel about the projected longevity of both of them? Ovi plays such a rougher game, it's possible injuries could start to accrue. I love the way he plays (although I think he goes overboard in his celebrations), but it wouldn't surprise me if he is above average at 30, but not a superstar.

[Trooper 8]

What do people feel about the projected longevity of both of them? Ovi plays such a rougher game, it's possible injuries could start to accrue. I love the way he plays (although I think he goes overboard in his celebrations), but it wouldn't surprise me if he is above average at 30, but not a superstar.

Possible, but he is a pretty big guy (AO). I think he will have to adapt at some point and learn to score other ways. He's not always going to be able to pull off the stuff he does now.

[Chadd 916]

What do people feel about the projected longevity of both of them? Ovi plays such a rougher game, it's possible injuries could start to accrue. I love the way he plays (although I think he goes overboard in his celebrations), but it wouldn't surprise me if he is above average at 30, but not a superstar.

As opposed to Sid's groin problems? It's not like those ever get better with age. We're fortunate to be hockey fans at a time when there very well may be more talent than ever before on the ice.

[furlanitalia 1]

I think both these guys will be superstars until they come close to the end of their career. We are lucky to see some of the best talent ever considering no one coming up seems to be on par with some of the high draft picks of the past 6 years. I think it'll be interesting to see the game in 5 years from now when Crosby and Ovechkin are a little older, some of the aged veterans like lidstrom are gone, and the rookies of this year (Tavares, Duchene) have really developed. Will they still dominate the league?

[that_guy 2]

Testy topic but interesting. If I had to pick one player when my team HAD to score, I, along with just about everyone else, would chose OV. That being said if I had to have one of them on my team it would be Sid, just for the reasons everyone has already mentioned. His determination and effort every second out there is impressive. OV is more fun to watch but also is one dirty player, which is a shame. How many suspensions did he have this year? Two? Three? Plus a lot of his hits are well after a player has gotten rid of the puck and he tends to jump into hits. Some may say he is a better goal scorer and the numbers will back that up however Sid's career shooting % is actually higher. When their careers are over I think OV will have more points, but that does not necessarily mean he was better. They are different players which makes it a tough decision, and a case can be made for either.

And just to fuel the ensuing flame war Sid: Stanley Cup and Gold Medal. OV: Neither.

[Chadd 916]

And just to fuel the ensuing flame war Sid: Stanley Cup and Gold Medal. OV: Neither.

And that has absolutely nothing to do with the talent of either player and to prove it; Claude Lemieux has four cups and Mario Lemieux has two.

[Big Jim 1]

Do you really think Crosby wants to win more than Nick Lidstrom, or Martin Brodeur, or Ryan Getzlaf, or even RJ Umberger? I just don't think that you can point to one guy who wants to win and hates to lose more than any other. I don't think it's any easier for Drew Miller to take a loss than it is for Joe Thornton, and I'd be willing to bet losing the Stanley Cup sucked just as much last season for Kirk Maltby as it did for Henrik Zetterberg. You don't have to be a star to be a competitor.

We are comparing Ovi to Sid. Not to Lidstrom, Brodeur, etc.

Crosby gives 100% every second he's on the ice, whether he has the puck OR NOT. The same CANNOT be said for Ovechkin IMO.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

We are comparing Ovi to Sid. Not to Lidstrom, Brodeur, etc.

Crosby gives 100% every second he's on the ice, whether he has the puck OR NOT. The same CANNOT be said for Ovechkin IMO.

I'm seriously starting to wonder if people are actually seeing a lot of ovechkin games this year or if they are judging him based on some random criteria

Ovechkin plays hard every shift, with or without the puck, be backchecks, he forechecks, he hits, he passes, he scores.

He is right in the thick of the Art Ross and Richard races despite having played 10 games fewer than the other leaders.

I don't get this "sid plays hard when he doesnt' have the puck, unlike Ovechkin"

I really don't, and I don't think I'm being just a homer fan either

[Trooper 8]

And that has absolutely nothing to do with the talent of either player and to prove it; Claude Lemieux has four cups and Mario Lemieux has two.

But people judge players on championships when they look at the big picture, so it is relevant. All things being equal, championships are often one of the last things discussed when comparing greatness, in the case of the two Lemieuxs, all things were not equal.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

But people judge players on championships when they look at the big picture, so it is relevant. All things being equal, championships are often one of the last things discussed when comparing greatness, in the case of the two Lemieuxs, all things were not equal.

The caps were 2 years behind the Pens in terms of development. Ovechkin and Crosby may have come to the league at the same time, but the teams were not put in place around them on the same timescale.

From 2002 to 2006 the Pens had 5 top 5 picks, including 2 number 1 overall picks and 2 number 2 overall picks (whitney with the #5 was the 5th there)

That gave them the base for the team they have now (with whitney being flipped for Kunitz) in Crosby, Malkin, Fleury and Staal

The caps in spite of sucking in the season pre-lockout got a bad bounce in the selection lottery and ended up with the 14th pick in 05

So they got the #1 in 04 (ovechkin), 14 in 05 (Polaluk, bust) the #4 in 06 (backstrom) and #5 in 07 (Alzner)

Had the caps got the same pick trajectory as the Pens did (but 2 years later, the 04 season being their first in the top 5) they could have ended up with

2004 - #1 - Ovechkin

2005 - #2 - Bobby Ryan

2006 - #1 - (in hindsight I would still have taken Backstrom, but at the time Toews or Erik Johnson would have been fine too)

2007 - #1 - Kane

2008 - #5 - Schenn

It's not a fair measure at this stage to say that Crosby has the championships, because in terms of teambuilding, he also had a 2 year head start.

So, if the caps advance to the cup finals this year, and win it all next season, it will be a similar pegging in terms of team trajectory (the politics in putting so many KHLers into the olympics has me discounting that completely)

So, all other things being equal, as is said, Ovechkin has won rookie of the year, 2 scoring titles, 2 goal scoring titles, 2 NHL MVP awards, 2 MVP awards as voted by the players.

At this stage in their careers, they have been in the league as long as each other, but they have been on very different teams. They both play 20-something minutes a night, which still leaves 40 more minutes of play for the team around them to have to play, so championships do not define the players yet.

In the future it may, but not now.

Who was the better quarterback, Trent Dilfer or Dan Marino? It's not golf, it's a team sport, you need your team too

[chippa13 1844]

My fear for Ovechkin is that he'll become the next Bure, a great player whose career will be stunted by injuries. His style of play just begs for him to fall apart at some point.

I give Ovechkin the nod in the scoring ability but I give Crosby the nod in hockey sense and playmaking ability.

[Allsmokenopancake 0]

My fear for Ovechkin is that he'll become the next Bure, a great player whose career will be stunted by injuries. His style of play just begs for him to fall apart at some point.

Yep, a fear held by a lot of caps fans too

[dsjunior1388 81]

They should ask the players "who hates to lose the most"or "who has the greatest drive to succeed" and I have a feeling Crosby would take it by a long shot.

We are comparing Ovi to Sid. Not to Lidstrom, Brodeur, etc.

Crosby gives 100% every second he's on the ice, whether he has the puck OR NOT. The same CANNOT be said for Ovechkin IMO.

We were comparing Crosby's desire to succeed to everyone in the NHL. And I still don't believe Ovechkin can accept losing any more than Sid can, or that Crosby enjoys winning more, or has a bigger desire to win.

[Trooper 8]

It's not a fair measure at this stage to say that Crosby has the championships, because in terms of teambuilding, he also had a 2 year head start.

Lots of things in sports and life aren't fair. The argument of who is greatest in any sport or endeavor is always a combination of subjective and objective points.