Bauer Recall Problems

[NextBobbyOrr 0]

A funny thing happened today, I thought I'd share it with you. So, I had a stick applicable for the warranty and I asked for a Senior Bauer One 95. So they mixed up my order and it took them double the time to ship it. Then, they don't even send me the right stick. They sent me a X:60 with a different flex and curve. And today, that just broke. I'm lucky that it was still within warranty. But I'm gonna try and get my original stick. I know I should be happy that I got one at all, and I am. But I just find this ironic and funny...

[raganblink 82]

If your warranty replacement breaks, you don't get a warranty on that..

Bauer with their warranty program replaces an equal valued stick. They did this. I get your upset, but, odds are they didn't have any one95s at all, and that was the closest flex/pattern left in stock. So better to get one a couple weeks later instead of MONTHS? They also could have said your stick wasn't worthy of warranty replacement and not send anything. Again I get your upset, but, look at the situation through their eyes.

... Things like this situation (when company is out of stock of exact stick, sends a different model or curve or whatever) is why I'd really love it if a major company switched to a pro-stock system only, and offered 200 OPS for like 120 but with no warranty. Kinda like how TSR has a million pro-stocks, do this only, so the warranty is no longer an issue, as most of these manufacture defects are actually not, and its just kids breaking sticks to get new ones, or somehow abusing the system. I'm not directing any of this towards you bobby, but, I deal with so much warranty issues which normally are stupid which makes me want everyone to be on a pro-stock system. Be so much easier and cheaper for all parties involved.

[Martin88 0]

"I'd really love it if a major company switched to a pro-stock system only, and offered 200 OPS for like 120 but with no warranty."

I agree 100% reganblink

[Zamboni 6]

If your warranty replacement breaks, you don't get a warranty on that..

Unless its a relacement stick under the lead paint recall program-Bauer is giving 30 day warranty on those replacement sticks.

[NextBobbyOrr 0]

If your warranty replacement breaks, you don't get a warranty on that..

Bauer with their warranty program replaces an equal valued stick. They did this. I get your upset, but, odds are they didn't have any one95s at all, and that was the closest flex/pattern left in stock. So better to get one a couple weeks later instead of MONTHS? They also could have said your stick wasn't worthy of warranty replacement and not send anything. Again I get your upset, but, look at the situation through their eyes.

... Things like this situation (when company is out of stock of exact stick, sends a different model or curve or whatever) is why I'd really love it if a major company switched to a pro-stock system only, and offered 200 OPS for like 120 but with no warranty. Kinda like how TSR has a million pro-stocks, do this only, so the warranty is no longer an issue, as most of these manufacture defects are actually not, and its just kids breaking sticks to get new ones, or somehow abusing the system. I'm not directing any of this towards you bobby, but, I deal with so much warranty issues which normally are stupid which makes me want everyone to be on a pro-stock system. Be so much easier and cheaper for all parties involved.

Sorry, I meant on the recall. And really, I'd never try to break my gear on purpose. I pay for all of it. And what's TSR?

If your warranty replacement breaks, you don't get a warranty on that..

Bauer with their warranty program replaces an equal valued stick. They did this. I get your upset, but, odds are they didn't have any one95s at all, and that was the closest flex/pattern left in stock. So better to get one a couple weeks later instead of MONTHS? They also could have said your stick wasn't worthy of warranty replacement and not send anything. Again I get your upset, but, look at the situation through their eyes.

... Things like this situation (when company is out of stock of exact stick, sends a different model or curve or whatever) is why I'd really love it if a major company switched to a pro-stock system only, and offered 200 OPS for like 120 but with no warranty. Kinda like how TSR has a million pro-stocks, do this only, so the warranty is no longer an issue, as most of these manufacture defects are actually not, and its just kids breaking sticks to get new ones, or somehow abusing the system. I'm not directing any of this towards you bobby, but, I deal with so much warranty issues which normally are stupid which makes me want everyone to be on a pro-stock system. Be so much easier and cheaper for all parties involved.

Oh and I'm not really upset. I just hope I can get a stick sooner or later and I find it funny. Plus I love the pro stock idea. Any other gear I get is from the Canucks team sale. Majority pro stock stuff, reasonably cheap.

[fatwabbit 93]

I agree with removing that warranty for sticks... seen so many abused here its not funny.

[bostonjuniorblackhawks 1]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&cli...q=&gs_rfai=

links to their website and facebook page

the store is great. They sell pro stock gloves and sticks cheap and they do custom skates

they have an ebay store too

[raganblink 82]

You get a warranty for the replacement sticks? Wow, very impressive by Bauer if that is true.

[NextBobbyOrr 0]

Yeah, Bauer did a bang up job taking care of the recall. I just hope you guys don't think I broke my stick on purpose. I got hit from behind, went flying to the boards and the stick broke on impact. Luckily, my hands were in front of me, so I didn't get hurt seriously so I consider myself pretty lucky. I'm still a bit shaky though. And I've seen a few people who break gear on purpose. It really annoys me how they feel they just have the "liberty" to go through as many sticks or whatever as they want.

[sogaduch 0]

Just curious as to why you didn't go to a LHS and exchange it for a one95? Still awesome that bauer not only gave people who had one of the recall sticks still in use or in the basement or garden a free top end stick with warranty

[team50 20]

"I got hit from behind, went flying to the boards and the stick broke on impact."

How is this a warranty claim? Seems the stick broke during the course of play rather than being defective.

[gxc999 7]

"I'd really love it if a major company switched to a pro-stock system only, and offered 200 OPS for like 120 but with no warranty."

I agree 100% reganblink

I am in complete and total agreement.

"I got hit from behind, went flying to the boards and the stick broke on impact."

How is this a warranty claim? Seems the stick broke during the course of play rather than being defective.

It really isn't/shouldn't be. That's why sticks cost so frickin' much.

[chippa13 1844]

Just curious as to why you didn't go to a LHS and exchange it for a one95? Still awesome that bauer not only gave people who had one of the recall sticks still in use or in the basement or garden a free top end stick with warranty

I don't think it is awesome, I think it is Bauer letting themselves get soaked by people taking advantage.

[bostonjuniorblackhawks 1]

I don't think it is awesome, I think it is Bauer letting themselves get soaked by people taking advantage.

my thoughts exactly. The shit I see on phew makes me sick. One of the mods there finally yelled at people for asking how to scam bauer

[Martin88 0]

The days of the stick warranty are numbered... in my opinion

[VakarLajos 5]

"I got hit from behind, went flying to the boards and the stick broke on impact."

How is this a warranty claim? Seems the stick broke during the course of play rather than being defective.

Spot on.

[furlanitalia 1]

"I'd really love it if a major company switched to a pro-stock system only, and offered 200 OPS for like 120 but with no warranty."

I agree 100% reganblink

Same here. The fact my sticks wear down before they break means I might be buying one every 18 months, and I usually go Pro Stock anyway. Why pay for a warranty I never use?

[NextBobbyOrr 0]

Yeah, when you put it that way, it really isn't that it's defective, but I emailed them and explained my situation and how it broke. They said I could send it in, even after telling them that. They were really generous, if that's the word for it. And I should probably say when it "broke on impact" it broke on the blade. Theres a crack running through the blade. I had to use it for the rest of my game...and that was loads of fun. And did somebody really try to put a topic on how to scam Bauer? That's pretty low. Plus I think their already starting to recognize, the scams some people are trying out. Like if you look at the newest bauer sticks (x:60 i dunno any others), it says on the warranty tag please affix to sales receipt. I asked my LHS why they did this, he said cuz some people would have a broken stick, buy the exact same model(curve, flex everything) and then they would send the broken stick in. So definitely I wouldn't be surprised for warranty to get start stopping in some companys. Have any you guys ever heard of people doing that?

[hockeyfreak7 0]

"I got hit from behind, went flying to the boards and the stick broke on impact."

How is this a warranty claim? Seems the stick broke during the course of play rather than being defective.

Well a defective stick isnt going to break if you dont use it in a game....

How do you expect a defective stick to break?

[mack 44]

Too bad the stick didn't break because it would have impaled him, making a cool YouTube video and Darwining a retard out of here.

[NextBobbyOrr 0]

Too bad the stick didn't break because it would have impaled him, making a cool YouTube video and Darwining a retard out of here.

Umm..what do you mean didn't break? Break in the shaft? Or do you think I'm like lying or something. And that probably would've been a really screwed up video...lol.

[mack 44]

Nevermind. Duck.

[NextBobbyOrr 0]

Nevermind. Duck.

Um..Sure.

[raganblink 82]

I asked my LHS why they did this, he said cuz some people would have a broken stick, buy the exact same model(curve, flex everything) and then they would send the broken stick in. So definitely I wouldn't be surprised for warranty to get start stopping in some company's. Have any you guys ever heard of people doing that?

Happens all the time. There are literally hundreds of thousands of people who are cheap as hell and exploit the generosity of companies for their own personal benefit. They try to scam us (shop) for their own benefit, they try to scam companies for their own benefit, and even some that scam each other for their own benefit. It is really sickening when I start thinking hard-core about the hockey industry, as, it is something that has stayed so expensive not because of manufacturing, R&D, materials, marketing (although all of these things are still a huge part of the cost of the product) yet it has stayed so expensive because the consumer quite frankly, (and this is a generalization) is cheap and do whatever they can to find a deal.

This is why the local shop has suffered over the years by way of the internet, whose big money can provide virtually every product in every size in every color, that can be at the door within days, whose pricing is as cheap as manufactures will allow them to sell it at, thus forcing the LHS's to stay within 5% of the MSRP, or in many cases, match or beat such said MSRP. Those who do not do this either have no means to provide lower pricing who has a somewhat loyal customer base, or, have a monopoly on an area and force them to pay such pricing because they have no alternative, not even the internet, because it (the net) is either unavailable or the fees to ship to them are so high, they are better off shopping locally from a financial stand-point.

Because of this I have several ideas and practices that I wish were implemented within the hockey retailing community. First and foremost, on OPS sticks there is no warranty. The product has become so refined and practiced that almost all breakage in sticks is not a manufactures defect. However they still award a broken stick a replacement because that is what the warranty situation has become. It hasn't been a manufacture construction warranty, it has become a user breakage warranty. The only sticks I have seen that have been denied warranty were slashes on posts and stepping on them with skates. And personally, I've only seen probably 30-40 instances of actual manufacture defects with their sticks. Most often it is almost immediately after first use, and it breaks on a slapshot or a strong wrist shot. However personally my sticks that have broke have either been on freak play stuff (such as hits, slashes from a-holes, etc), and have had only 3 sticks break by what I would consider a manufacture's defect, coincidentally, all have been about 3 weeks after I bought it. This implementation would mainly benefit the end user, with partial by the retailer because they would be able to sell more expensive product. I could sell easily 300 $120 sticks a season if they were top-end sticks, where as I could only sell probably 100 $200 sticks a season. People have their price points, and if the price point was at 120 for a top-end stick, you would get all the 200 PP people, all the 150 PP people, most of the 100 PP people, and a decent proportion of the 60-80 PP people.

The second idea/practice that I believe should be implemented would be different rules for online retailing rather than in store retailing, also big retail stores compared to small retail stores. Companies for the most part don't care what you sell your product at in store, however, there are guidelines that must be followed if you are to sell online. These prices that are the MSRP and what the minimum must be for an online retailer are the same. I realize that the online retailers must also have a store and make money, however, since they buy such quantity, their pricing is significantly lower than your mom and pa LHS. Thus I believe that the online retailers should be forced to sell their product at a higher price than the MSRP. IE, if you have one95s at an MSRP of 200, that is what stores are supposed to sell them at, regardless of online or at location. I believe that online retailers should be forced to sell product at 5% higher than MSRP. That 200 stick on Hockeymonkey just became 210. This would allow quite possibly an inflation of hockey equipment however, which would be a bad thing. Because then everyone would sell their product at 210 instead of 200. I'm sure there would be some way to eliminate this problem however. As an assoc. store manager of a small LHS, it bums me out that we lose a significant amount of money to online retailers because we cannot afford to carry a large quantity of product, thus, forcing ourselves to either sell lower than MSRP to make a sell on something the customer probably wasn't going to buy or even thinking about when he entered the store, or, ask if they would like to have us order the product for them. Roughly half the time they say yes they would like that, because these people generally understand that it is in their best interest to shop locally, because if they don't, we wont have money to get stuff in stock for them later on, however, there are still quite a few people who are like,"oh, well, no that's okay, I'll just get it online." Even though they'll be spending probably $10 more after taxes, they wont care because they will get the product in sooner than what we can, and also, most of these people believe they are getting way better deals online; but the ones that would come into our shop in the first place either know this isn't true or don't care about that. Also the company might be out of the product, so we're SOL, and they typically will just go online then no matter what instead of waiting 4 weeks for the product. There are few people who are this loyal, which, I applaud them, but again, understand if they wouldn't be. Being a small LHS forces you to take financial risks, be ridiculously smart on your booking orders, and pray that something doesn't happen economically that just ruins the hockey market in your town. Being a large LHS allows you to take relatively little financial risks (since money is not really an issue, you can invest in a large quantity of product that you believe will sell well, IE, Bauer protective gear, or a smaller amount of $ to invest in start-ups things you believe in), and if something bad happens to the economic situation, we're all screwed, but since they have deeper pockets due to their larger profit (not sale $$ wise, % wise) it wont, or atleast, shouldn't, damage their business and force them into foreclosure or whatever. Due to the discounts given by companies that reward large customers, it creates a cycle that is never-ending and that needs to change, as most large customers due this to on-line sales. However there are the ones who don't do online that are large customers, which of course, congratulations in being in a great hockey market or either a ridiculously genius business model, however, odds are almost certain that you needed to invest a large portion of money to become so big. This cycle keeps small business small, and large business large. If the companies could either create weird circumstances with their customers, such as, extremely long terms to loyal customers who do a low amount of business with such said company, it would help smaller business become bigger, albeit slowly. Like lets say for two of their customers, one does 50K with them, the other does 500K. Currently the companies with their terms (the amount of time a store has before they will start to have to pay off their order) have a progressive system, rewarding companies that spend more money with them to get longer terms, AND discounts on the product, up to 10%. The 50K store might have 120 day terms before they have to start paying back, and maybe a 2-3% discount on their booking order. This means that they basically get 1.5K of product for free, and have 4 months before they'll have to start pay back that 50K of product. This means that they will not be able to afford to be able to get their product in at April, because they wont be able to sell that much product within 4 months to be able to pay back the gear. So they'll have to get the product in later, and thus be able to sell most of the product before $$ is due, BUT, lose a large chunk of change b/c customers don't want to wait that long to get the new product in, so they'll buy it from a larger retailer that could probably pay in cash their booking order, who gets the product in full stock as soon as possible. This significantly hurts shops that cannot get product in asap, b/c they simply don't have the money to be able to afford to do so. The large shop who does 500K with this company, will save close to 50K or 10% off their booking order, and will have probably 180 day terms. Which means they will have plenty of time to sell the product, which is why this store can afford to get their gear in asap. Also the extra % they save off the product can be put towards their ability to buy even more product the next season, as their profit margin has gone from 30% to nearly 40%. The 50K we bought from the company we'd only make 15K off of that, or 30%, whereas the 500K shop would make 200K, or 40%. It is a progressive system that results in the more you spend, the more you will make, the more you will save, and the bigger you can become because you make so much money. While I understand this is all fair game capitalism, and I'm not saying it is wrong, and if you can have a shop that makes that, then congrats you deserve it, however, it is a system that keeps small small simply because they cannot afford to become bigger. Yes they can take out loans, but, if something doesn't work out that season, they are SOL, so it is a pretty big risk. Maybe someone who works/owns a shop here who is big who has been there a while can give me a better perspective on your business end. However from my end, it seems as if the larger you are, the more you will have, the more you will sell, the more you will make, the more the company makes, with relatively low to none financial risk of spending large amounts of money each season, because you've been making a large profit each year, and to me this is something that must change, as we will become a society who has several retailers who are monopolies, one-two in each big hockey cities (twin cities, toronto, chicago, etc), and then in your smaller areas, the relatively mid-sized shop will become smaller and smaller until they become as small as possible but yet can still maintain a profit for the owner, or just simply disappear and become week-night sharpening/tape/spare stick depots who are nothing more than skate services, tape, emergency 'shops', and a fitting service to the on-line giants.

Thirdly, if we can implement these two ideas, it will open-up hockey to a larger financial market. Hockey is already expensive as hell, thus if we can lower pricing on the product then it will open it up to more people. The shops that are big local shops are in hockey markets. Plain and simple. These people live and breathe hockey, and the cost isn't going to be a huge factor on whether or not their kid is going to play it. Dammit my dad played hockey, I played hockey, my kid is playing hockey. However if we can help the smaller shops either have the same pricing as everyone else (or even lower) by more or less leveling the playing field in terms of the amount of % they will make on product, it will allow them to sell cheaper product to more people, because the product is cheaper. Most of the customer base of non-hockey areas is older people who are typically transplants, or, someone started a youth organization and are creating future hockey players. If the product is really expensive, odds are these kids wont get exposed to hockey at all due to pricing, thus hurting the game. You lose so many people who would probably be great at hockey, simply because they could not afford it because the shop(s) in their area are expensive because they don't get a break with the companies, so to stay in business they have to sell their product at a higher price. Hope this make sense. If hockey stuff was cheaper as a whole, but, especially to smaller shops, who 9 times out of 10 are in small markets, it would allow a large amount of people to be able to afford to play hockey, which will be great financially for everyone, but more importantly, will create better players because of the higher competition, and a larger range of talent to chose from, which would create more NHL/AHL caliber players, which would expand the leagues (even CHL, IHL, ECHL, SPHL, college, junior, everything) and expose hockey to even more people, which in term would open new shops creating businesses in smaller non-traditional hockey areas, which would create even more of the same good. America would become amazing at hockey, jobs would be created, we would have more fit kids who would live longer because they are active, which means lower taxes and all that. Its a huge cycle and it could/would totally work if these things were implemented into the hockey company/dealer/consumer relationship.

Sorry for the ridiculously long rant, it just upsets me I guess how the whole system is set-up. It benefits the larger stores the most, who honestly, since they are big, don't need that much help. I'm happy for them they can be huge, but, it just isn't right I guess how in the future (20 years probably [the way I see it forecasting]) we will see huge on-line retailers offering ridiculously cheap product for the same cost as the LHS in everything imaginable (C width, EEE width, SMU sticks, any color glove/model, etc [we see alot of this with hockey monkey already]), and eventually we wont see high shipping/handling fees, and the only thing LHS's who are small will be good for will be fitting, sharpening, and emergencies. More or less a pro-shop at the rink who doesn't have anything except couple pants, couple helmets, couple skates, etc, and tape tape tape. The large LHSs will still be in relatively great shape, we'll just start seeing a die-off of the small shops servicing small communities.

Tl;dr version: no OPS warranties, & create a system that either benefits small shops who have been consistently loyal, or just level the playing field so your big shops profit margin isn't 8-10% higher than your smaller shops. Maybe 3-4%, but not 8-10%, which would allow hockey to become bigger and bigger due to the cost becoming lower, thus helping almost all aspects of the American economy and our health and image portrayed towards others. Again sorry for really long rant, if you want to read it go for it, it'll just take a while/you'll probably get lost somewhere in it... what is this thread about? :P

[NextBobbyOrr 0]

Happens all the time. There are literally hundreds of thousands of people who are cheap as hell and exploit the generosity of companies for their own personal benefit. They try to scam us (shop) for their own benefit, they try to scam companies for their own benefit, and even some that scam each other for their own benefit. It is really sickening when I start thinking hard-core about the hockey industry, as, it is something that has stayed so expensive not because of manufacturing, R&D, materials, marketing (although all of these things are still a huge part of the cost of the product) yet it has stayed so expensive because the consumer quite frankly, (and this is a generalization) is cheap and do whatever they can to find a deal.

This is why the local shop has suffered over the years by way of the internet, whose big money can provide virtually every product in every size in every color, that can be at the door within days, whose pricing is as cheap as manufactures will allow them to sell it at, thus forcing the LHS's to stay within 5% of the MSRP, or in many cases, match or beat such said MSRP. Those who do not do this either have no means to provide lower pricing who has a somewhat loyal customer base, or, have a monopoly on an area and force them to pay such pricing because they have no alternative, not even the internet, because it (the net) is either unavailable or the fees to ship to them are so high, they are better off shopping locally from a financial stand-point.

Because of this I have several ideas and practices that I wish were implemented within the hockey retailing community. First and foremost, on OPS sticks there is no warranty. The product has become so refined and practiced that almost all breakage in sticks is not a manufactures defect. However they still award a broken stick a replacement because that is what the warranty situation has become. It hasn't been a manufacture construction warranty, it has become a user breakage warranty. The only sticks I have seen that have been denied warranty were slashes on posts and stepping on them with skates. And personally, I've only seen probably 30-40 instances of actual manufacture defects with their sticks. Most often it is almost immediately after first use, and it breaks on a slapshot or a strong wrist shot. However personally my sticks that have broke have either been on freak play stuff (such as hits, slashes from a-holes, etc), and have had only 3 sticks break by what I would consider a manufacture's defect, coincidentally, all have been about 3 weeks after I bought it. This implementation would mainly benefit the end user, with partial by the retailer because they would be able to sell more expensive product. I could sell easily 300 $120 sticks a season if they were top-end sticks, where as I could only sell probably 100 $200 sticks a season. People have their price points, and if the price point was at 120 for a top-end stick, you would get all the 200 PP people, all the 150 PP people, most of the 100 PP people, and a decent proportion of the 60-80 PP people.

The second idea/practice that I believe should be implemented would be different rules for online retailing rather than in store retailing, also big retail stores compared to small retail stores. Companies for the most part don't care what you sell your product at in store, however, there are guidelines that must be followed if you are to sell online. These prices that are the MSRP and what the minimum must be for an online retailer are the same. I realize that the online retailers must also have a store and make money, however, since they buy such quantity, their pricing is significantly lower than your mom and pa LHS. Thus I believe that the online retailers should be forced to sell their product at a higher price than the MSRP. IE, if you have one95s at an MSRP of 200, that is what stores are supposed to sell them at, regardless of online or at location. I believe that online retailers should be forced to sell product at 5% higher than MSRP. That 200 stick on Hockeymonkey just became 210. This would allow quite possibly an inflation of hockey equipment however, which would be a bad thing. Because then everyone would sell their product at 210 instead of 200. I'm sure there would be some way to eliminate this problem however. As an assoc. store manager of a small LHS, it bums me out that we lose a significant amount of money to online retailers because we cannot afford to carry a large quantity of product, thus, forcing ourselves to either sell lower than MSRP to make a sell on something the customer probably wasn't going to buy or even thinking about when he entered the store, or, ask if they would like to have us order the product for them. Roughly half the time they say yes they would like that, because these people generally understand that it is in their best interest to shop locally, because if they don't, we wont have money to get stuff in stock for them later on, however, there are still quite a few people who are like,"oh, well, no that's okay, I'll just get it online." Even though they'll be spending probably $10 more after taxes, they wont care because they will get the product in sooner than what we can, and also, most of these people believe they are getting way better deals online; but the ones that would come into our shop in the first place either know this isn't true or don't care about that. Also the company might be out of the product, so we're SOL, and they typically will just go online then no matter what instead of waiting 4 weeks for the product. There are few people who are this loyal, which, I applaud them, but again, understand if they wouldn't be. Being a small LHS forces you to take financial risks, be ridiculously smart on your booking orders, and pray that something doesn't happen economically that just ruins the hockey market in your town. Being a large LHS allows you to take relatively little financial risks (since money is not really an issue, you can invest in a large quantity of product that you believe will sell well, IE, Bauer protective gear, or a smaller amount of $ to invest in start-ups things you believe in), and if something bad happens to the economic situation, we're all screwed, but since they have deeper pockets due to their larger profit (not sale $$ wise, % wise) it wont, or atleast, shouldn't, damage their business and force them into foreclosure or whatever. Due to the discounts given by companies that reward large customers, it creates a cycle that is never-ending and that needs to change, as most large customers due this to on-line sales. However there are the ones who don't do online that are large customers, which of course, congratulations in being in a great hockey market or either a ridiculously genius business model, however, odds are almost certain that you needed to invest a large portion of money to become so big. This cycle keeps small business small, and large business large. If the companies could either create weird circumstances with their customers, such as, extremely long terms to loyal customers who do a low amount of business with such said company, it would help smaller business become bigger, albeit slowly. Like lets say for two of their customers, one does 50K with them, the other does 500K. Currently the companies with their terms (the amount of time a store has before they will start to have to pay off their order) have a progressive system, rewarding companies that spend more money with them to get longer terms, AND discounts on the product, up to 10%. The 50K store might have 120 day terms before they have to start paying back, and maybe a 2-3% discount on their booking order. This means that they basically get 1.5K of product for free, and have 4 months before they'll have to start pay back that 50K of product. This means that they will not be able to afford to be able to get their product in at April, because they wont be able to sell that much product within 4 months to be able to pay back the gear. So they'll have to get the product in later, and thus be able to sell most of the product before $$ is due, BUT, lose a large chunk of change b/c customers don't want to wait that long to get the new product in, so they'll buy it from a larger retailer that could probably pay in cash their booking order, who gets the product in full stock as soon as possible. This significantly hurts shops that cannot get product in asap, b/c they simply don't have the money to be able to afford to do so. The large shop who does 500K with this company, will save close to 50K or 10% off their booking order, and will have probably 180 day terms. Which means they will have plenty of time to sell the product, which is why this store can afford to get their gear in asap. Also the extra % they save off the product can be put towards their ability to buy even more product the next season, as their profit margin has gone from 30% to nearly 40%. The 50K we bought from the company we'd only make 15K off of that, or 30%, whereas the 500K shop would make 200K, or 40%. It is a progressive system that results in the more you spend, the more you will make, the more you will save, and the bigger you can become because you make so much money. While I understand this is all fair game capitalism, and I'm not saying it is wrong, and if you can have a shop that makes that, then congrats you deserve it, however, it is a system that keeps small small simply because they cannot afford to become bigger. Yes they can take out loans, but, if something doesn't work out that season, they are SOL, so it is a pretty big risk. Maybe someone who works/owns a shop here who is big who has been there a while can give me a better perspective on your business end. However from my end, it seems as if the larger you are, the more you will have, the more you will sell, the more you will make, the more the company makes, with relatively low to none financial risk of spending large amounts of money each season, because you've been making a large profit each year, and to me this is something that must change, as we will become a society who has several retailers who are monopolies, one-two in each big hockey cities (twin cities, toronto, chicago, etc), and then in your smaller areas, the relatively mid-sized shop will become smaller and smaller until they become as small as possible but yet can still maintain a profit for the owner, or just simply disappear and become week-night sharpening/tape/spare stick depots who are nothing more than skate services, tape, emergency 'shops', and a fitting service to the on-line giants.

Thirdly, if we can implement these two ideas, it will open-up hockey to a larger financial market. Hockey is already expensive as hell, thus if we can lower pricing on the product then it will open it up to more people. The shops that are big local shops are in hockey markets. Plain and simple. These people live and breathe hockey, and the cost isn't going to be a huge factor on whether or not their kid is going to play it. Dammit my dad played hockey, I played hockey, my kid is playing hockey. However if we can help the smaller shops either have the same pricing as everyone else (or even lower) by more or less leveling the playing field in terms of the amount of % they will make on product, it will allow them to sell cheaper product to more people, because the product is cheaper. Most of the customer base of non-hockey areas is older people who are typically transplants, or, someone started a youth organization and are creating future hockey players. If the product is really expensive, odds are these kids wont get exposed to hockey at all due to pricing, thus hurting the game. You lose so many people who would probably be great at hockey, simply because they could not afford it because the shop(s) in their area are expensive because they don't get a break with the companies, so to stay in business they have to sell their product at a higher price. Hope this make sense. If hockey stuff was cheaper as a whole, but, especially to smaller shops, who 9 times out of 10 are in small markets, it would allow a large amount of people to be able to afford to play hockey, which will be great financially for everyone, but more importantly, will create better players because of the higher competition, and a larger range of talent to chose from, which would create more NHL/AHL caliber players, which would expand the leagues (even CHL, IHL, ECHL, SPHL, college, junior, everything) and expose hockey to even more people, which in term would open new shops creating businesses in smaller non-traditional hockey areas, which would create even more of the same good. America would become amazing at hockey, jobs would be created, we would have more fit kids who would live longer because they are active, which means lower taxes and all that. Its a huge cycle and it could/would totally work if these things were implemented into the hockey company/dealer/consumer relationship.

Sorry for the ridiculously long rant, it just upsets me I guess how the whole system is set-up. It benefits the larger stores the most, who honestly, since they are big, don't need that much help. I'm happy for them they can be huge, but, it just isn't right I guess how in the future (20 years probably [the way I see it forecasting]) we will see huge on-line retailers offering ridiculously cheap product for the same cost as the LHS in everything imaginable (C width, EEE width, SMU sticks, any color glove/model, etc [we see alot of this with hockey monkey already]), and eventually we wont see high shipping/handling fees, and the only thing LHS's who are small will be good for will be fitting, sharpening, and emergencies. More or less a pro-shop at the rink who doesn't have anything except couple pants, couple helmets, couple skates, etc, and tape tape tape. The large LHSs will still be in relatively great shape, we'll just start seeing a die-off of the small shops servicing small communities.

Tl;dr version: no OPS warranties, & create a system that either benefits small shops who have been consistently loyal, or just level the playing field so your big shops profit margin isn't 8-10% higher than your smaller shops. Maybe 3-4%, but not 8-10%, which would allow hockey to become bigger and bigger due to the cost becoming lower, thus helping almost all aspects of the American economy and our health and image portrayed towards others. Again sorry for really long rant, if you want to read it go for it, it'll just take a while/you'll probably get lost somewhere in it... what is this thread about? :P

Well, I managed to read the whole thing and I agree. The main reasons I stick to my LHS is because of loyalty, trust and benefits. I've been shopping at the same store since I was 6, I'm not gonna change anytime soon. They've always been helping me out, even with stuff that doesn't even make them any money like re-molding skates and what not. And of course, being good friends with them has benefits. Not gonna lie there. Last year they sold me the S17, a month after it came out at $230. And they always come through for my family on Christmas shopping. My Bro got a pair of Vapor XXXX skates for $99 and I got a pair of 9k Gloves for $89.

Oh and I don't really trust buying stuff over the internet....I guess I'm kinda old fashioned that way but whatever.