What makes a good beer league ref?

[wetwilly17 6]

You have to have a feel for the game. If you've got a couple of guys who throw a couple of high shoves each way after a whistle then you likely won't be calling matching roughs but tossing out "next high shot is going" can help to keep it from escalating.

One thing I hate and tried to stay away from was refs bailing out and just matching up everything. Sometimes it is matching but a lot of times there is an obvious aggressor in a situation and in those cases I'd hand him the extra if he started the scrum. I found it cut down on a lot of the bs since most guys don't want to get the extra.

but isn't it this thinking that allows it to happen the first time? call it every time and he'll think about it more before he goes off in the first period of the next game.

[Jason Harris 31]

Regarding the swearing or animated speech, my attitude was along the lines of what counselors teach couples: Attack the action, not the person. So if somebody's yelling was not really directed at me, I didn't care. If somebody was essentially attacking me personally, I still didn't really care, because I only called what I saw from my angle; however, behavior like that was unacceptable, so I'd let the person know, "I'm giving you two for the tripping, but if you don't stop, I'm going to give you two for unsportsmanship." Apparently, some people didn't mind longer breaks between their shifts, because I'd almost have to sigh for some of them, "Okay, that's four now."

By the way, I found that telling players that's what it looked like from my angle tended to calm most of them down. They'd protest they didn't touch the person, so I'd tell them, "That may be true, in which case I apologize. But from my angle it appeared you tripped him." The truth is it's possible they really didn't touch the guy, but the odds were greater they were just making excuses, so it was kind of hard for them to argue against what I saw from my angle.

Yet that kind of leads into an irritation I have with players. If you committed a penalty -- and most of KNOW when we have -- shut the hell up and skate to the box. It happened the other night for me. I guy was maybe four inches ahead of me with the puck, so I tried to reach around with my stick to knock the puck away. I think my arm may have blocked his pants, but I don't think my stick ever really touched him. He fell, however, and the ref's arm went up, so at the whistle I immediately turned for the box. The guys in the box asked me whether the ref called hooking or tripping, but since the ref was almost apologetic that he had to call something, I told them, "Well, he didn't have a penalty for when a guy falls...."

They knew what I meant, because I think the guy (whom I know) did fall, but it still comes down to the angle of where the ref was standing.

[tareatingrat 4]

Regarding the swearing or animated speech, my attitude was along the lines of what counselors teach couples: Attack the action, not the person. So if somebody's yelling was not really directed at me, I didn't care. If somebody was essentially attacking me personally, I still didn't really care, because I only called what I saw from my angle; however, behavior like that was unacceptable, so I'd let the person know, "I'm giving you two for the tripping, but if you don't stop, I'm going to give you two for unsportsmanship."

I guess I was being too subtle.

Anyway, as the the rest of your points: That's really all I can ask. If somebody continues chirping after an explanation, then call it. But if a swear comes out and it's an automatic two or an extra, that's a joke.

[Chadd 916]

Come to think of it Chad you really do make a good point here.... but then again, we're back to that pesky "game management" thing......

20+ years ago refs were allowed to have a personality and were taught to use facial expression, tone of voice, and tone of whistle to manage the game....

Most of the guys that have been doing it 20 years around here, never got the memo about the new standards and call whatever the hell they want, even if it isn't in the book.

You have to have a feel for the game. If you've got a couple of guys who throw a couple of high shoves each way after a whistle then you likely won't be calling matching roughs but tossing out "next high shot is going" can help to keep it from escalating.

One thing I hate and tried to stay away from was refs bailing out and just matching up everything. Sometimes it is matching but a lot of times there is an obvious aggressor in a situation and in those cases I'd hand him the extra if he started the scrum. I found it cut down on a lot of the bs since most guys don't want to get the extra.

I agree but tend to be a lot less specific in my comments. Usually it's more of a "that's enough, who wants the extra two minutes?" It implies that there are already penalties and gives you the option of calling one, two or more if the situation warrants. I agree with you about not making matching calls as a bail out though. The difference is I prefer to give 4 and 2 instead of letting one guy get off without anything if he deserved a penalty.

[rachael7 1]

I tell ya what doesn't make a good beer league ref... I'm on the bench, a few minutes left in a really tough game against a team that was way too good for us (stacked with D3 players)... all things considered, we didn't do too bad to hold them to 7-1, given that the whole game was played in our end. Anyway, what sucks is that I'm sitting there kinda down about being -3 for the night and one of the refs is casually leaning against the boards in front of our bench (during gameplay), chatting with one of our players that's out of uniform (injury) about how we played ok but could have used more D. Thanks, buddy. Way to make my fucking night. Get off my damn boards and go do your job.

[Powerfibers 8]

I tell ya what doesn't make a good beer league ref... I'm on the bench, a few minutes left in a really tough game against a team that was way too good for us (stacked with D3 players)... all things considered, we didn't do too bad to hold them to 7-1, given that the whole game was played in our end. Anyway, what sucks is that I'm sitting there kinda down about being -3 for the night and one of the refs is casually leaning against the boards in front of our bench (during gameplay), chatting with one of our players that's out of uniform (injury) about how we played ok but could have used more D. Thanks, buddy. Way to make my fucking night. Get off my damn boards and go do your job.

Ouch, that hurts. Not a fan of the refs trying to coach us either.

One thing I do appreciate though is beer league refs with a sense of humor. We had one standing right in front of our bench the other night when a clearing pass from the corner came up around the boards/glass and right at him. He tried to get out of the way, and it hit him square it the gut. The puc goes into our bench and he blows the whistle.

He says, "Damn, I tried everything. I tried to jump, I tried to duck...." One of our defensemen says to him, "You shoulda tried to loose weight."

The ref bursts out laughing and gives the finger shake and "Are you ready to be the teams' new penalty minute leader? I'm getting you for sure when you're out here." It was hilarious, and reminded us all of why we play.

One thing I don't like is when the refs don't call penalties because they have a sense that the skater is not the best skater out there. We have several mediocre skaters in our league that could get axe murdered on a break away and not get a call their way. Sort of a "he would have fallen anyway" sort of deal.

I don't think that's a referee's job to make those decisions. It would be like me umping a baseball game and giving a weak pitcher a wider plate or poor batter a walk. (Maybe not the best analogy, but calling something other than what really happened because of my perception of the player's ability.)

[Hermans 9]

Ouch, that hurts. Not a fan of the refs trying to coach us either.

One thing I do appreciate though is beer league refs with a sense of humor. We had one standing right in front of our bench the other night when a clearing pass from the corner came up around the boards/glass and right at him. He tried to get out of the way, and it hit him square it the gut. The puc goes into our bench and he blows the whistle.

He says, "Damn, I tried everything. I tried to jump, I tried to duck...." One of our defensemen says to him, "You shoulda tried to loose weight."

The ref bursts out laughing and gives the finger shake and "Are you ready to be the teams' new penalty minute leader? I'm getting you for sure when you're out here." It was hilarious, and reminded us all of why we play.

One thing I don't like is when the refs don't call penalties because they have a sense that the skater is not the best skater out there. We have several mediocre skaters in our league that could get axe murdered on a break away and not get a call their way. Sort of a "he would have fallen anyway" sort of deal.

I don't think that's a referee's job to make those decisions. It would be like me umping a baseball game and giving a weak pitcher a wider plate or poor batter a walk. (Maybe not the best analogy, but calling something other than what really happened because of my perception of the player's ability.)

Cleared a puck that got the ref in the family jewels. I skated on thin ice, shall we say, the rest of the night. He was wearing a jock and okay but man did he have a surprised look on his face as in "you didn't clear it up the boards and you hit me?" Right behind him was a d-man blocking the clear and I cleared up about 4 feet from the boards just perfectly timed with the ref turning towards me. Not a good move but he had good about it.

[chippa13 1844]

I agree but tend to be a lot less specific in my comments. Usually it's more of a "that's enough, who wants the extra two minutes?" It implies that there are already penalties and gives you the option of calling one, two or more if the situation warrants. I agree with you about not making matching calls as a bail out though. The difference is I prefer to give 4 and 2 instead of letting one guy get off without anything if he deserved a penalty.

Agreed, if you're the obvious problem starter or you take that last extra shot after I tell you that you are done then you're the guy that gets the extra penalty on top of whatever else I'm handing out. Especially helpful when doing some high level midget games.

[SHARK_city_WIZEGUY 0]

Consistency on with all calls.

knowing when to make a call, and when to LET THE BOYS PLAY.

knowing that you are on the ice ONLY to insure the game between the two times is played fair and safe, and NOT TO MAKE YOURSELF A FACTOR IN THE GAME.

[Chadd 916]

knowing when to make a call, and when to LET THE BOYS PLAY.

knowing that you are on the ice ONLY to insure the game between the two times is played fair and safe, and NOT TO MAKE YOURSELF A FACTOR IN THE GAME.

In my experience, the people that make these comments are usually the ones that deserve way more penalties than the other team and complain loudly about getting called for the various things that they do. I've only been a ref for a decade or so, there may be a few guys that feel that way and don't play like a lumberjack on crank, but I have yet to meet them in person.

[Husker 0]

A good beer league ref controls that game. Lots of people argue that it can't be done/refs don't have that much direct involvement, but they have the ability to keep it even.

The majority of the worst fights/scrums/rough games have a combination of three elements. Lopsided score, a ref that is "letting them play", a single hothead on the ice. The team that is losing is looking for some calls that in a tight game would be a none issue, but in a lopsided game they are looking for anything. Refs choose to continue calling the game the same way. Sore loser or someone way to competitive takes it a step to far, people jump in to help their buddies.

If the penalties are called then 90% the teams that is losing is focused on the PP, not what they are going to do to the person that hooked, rubbed out, slashed, ect.

When I play mens league 95% of the penalties called on me are "roughing" calls on contact that I don't initiate. These used to irritate the hell out of me, and I would go at the refs. Get nothing done expect ensure I get the next one too. Then I stopped looking at refs as a whole, and seeing what individuals did. So now some nights refs that I like are out and we shoot the shit, and often its a great game. A very few number of refs I ignore because they aren't worth my time, and unfortunately all the other guys will be giving them shit all game because that is the reputation they built as refs and typically they live up to it.

If you want good beer league refs, make them a non factor. Just go to the box if they call you and don't give them the satisfaction of knowing they get under your skin.

[Chadd 916]

A good beer league ref controls that game. Lots of people argue that it can't be done/refs don't have that much direct involvement, but they have the ability to keep it even.

A ref that is trying to control the game is one that is going way too far. I do think that a ref can help a game get out of hand by not calling penalties but it really depends on how the players react to the play and penalties (assuming they are called) that will determine how the game plays out. A ref can't stop someone from doing something stupid, only send them to thebox or the locker room for doing it.

The majority of the worst fights/scrums/rough games have a combination of three elements. Lopsided score, a ref that is "letting them play", a single hothead on the ice.

I agree with that completely. "Letting them play" is probably the single biggest cause of problems in beer leagues.

[Jarick 5]

Best thing a ref can do IMO is prevent things from getting out of hand and tossing players that have lost their head.

[Chadd 916]

Best thing a ref can do IMO is prevent things from getting out of hand and tossing players that have lost their head.

As long as they do it within the rules, I agree. You can't just toss guys for being an asshole, you have to wait for them to do something to warrant the ejection. If you know you have a guy that is dangerous, you need to keep one eye on him.

[zebra_steve 11]

In almost every game that I've watched or been involved in that has gone to shit (at any level).... you can trace the root of it to a call that either was NOT made and should have been, or WAS CALLED and it should not have (kind of a sick feeling as a liney to know that your job is about to get immensely more difficult). In either instance the player\team feels offended and can become a brutal spiral if the NEXT call is not spot on. The few that haven't followed this pattern were preordained to be a turd due to preexisting animosities that we were not made aware of. It was obvious from the first drop of the puck and we spend the whole game trying to keep a lid on it.... Now if it were a PRO game they would have just dropped them a few times been done with rather than running around whacking each other and trying to KO someone or put them into the third row on every hit..... There were the very few that just exploded as a result of a cheap shot and it didn't matter whether we had the call or not because it was game on from that point forward.

Usually if a player is being an asshole it's not too long until he's accumulated enough demerits to warrant an early shower. Now if he's one of those players that knowingly walks that fine line and tries to instigate his opponent in the process then you have your hands full and really need to be aware whenever he's on the ice.

Sometimes it is\would be nice to just tell two guys "to either drop them and get it over with or cut the shit and quit f...ing up everyone else's game".... Obviously this is frowned upon in amateurs where fighting is not permitted, but can still be beneficial as it gets them out of the game and settles everyone else down.

Officials cannot make players control themselves, nor can they make coaches maintain discipline on their benches. We make the calls after the fact as a reaction to what the players and coaches have chosen to do. When it reaches the point that we have to do something to maintain\regain control of a game then the players and coaches have already lost (discipline).

As far as "let the boys play", well this is a very fine line and the official has to have VERY GOOD JUDGMENT to pull it off. It is something that ONLY WORKS if you have two disciplined teams and coaching staffs that actually understand the concept. They know what a good non-call is just as they know when a call is imminent. It would also be better if the teams play a similar style... it doesn't work real well when you have a finesse team playing an in your face physical team. It is not a concept that is wanted\belongs at most levels of amateur hockey.. For adult league it depends on the experience and make up of the players in the game.... A & B leaguers may get it, C & D leaguers probably need to be called closer to the letter of the rule....

[shotty 7]

played two games yesterday in two different leagues. two polar opposites for officials.

i got blindsided late in the 1st period. as our team gained posession out of the zone, i skated past the ref and said "he went right for my head... didnt even attempt to play the puck" and moved on. the ref comes right up to me in the intermission and says "sorry i missed it. i believe you, but i was looking elsewhere... dont retaliate, i'll do the work from now on. i've got him" third period, im at the left point. i pinch in to put the puck deep and the same dude hits me late. i saw him coming so i braced it and it didnt come off as a very big hit. however, unbeknownst to me, the ref was calling him for on it. i was sorta challenging him, mostly "wtf, dude... you had to hit me again eh?" he was skating backward away from me. ref comes over and says "this guy isnt worth a suspension for fighting... i've got him". he TOTALLY defused the situation and reminded me that he was looking out for me. he turned the game around for me. it was a totally light hit, and he probably shouldnt have been called for it, but the ref knew that he was seeing a pattern. good officiating.

2nd game of the night, different league. we're being totally schooled by this team, the score is something like 6-1. ref comes over to our goalie and says "you cant throw the puck in a forward motion from your glove, its a penalty. sides or behind, not forward" which i believe to be BS. i understand that a goalie cant move the puck with his blocker hand, but this was clearly from his glove. played hockey 20+ years never heard that. a few minutes later i get a blatant high stick to the mouth. cut my lip right through, blood everywhere. there was no call until i came back from the room to show them the cut, dude got 2 minutes (should be four, right?), bitched all the way to the box that he didnt do anything, called the refs all sorts of names "worst call i've ever heard" he says. i skated directly off the ice when it happened. left my gloves and stick on the ice.

he comes over to me and says "dont dump your gear while the play is going on. thats a penalty" i say "buddy hit me right in the mouth with the heel of his stick, and you dont expect me to drop my gloves and grab my mouth?" he says "dont drop your equipment". i say "this is mens league hockey. if i get hit in the face by an errant stick and there's blood everywhere, you fucking stop the play". he skates away.

it blew my mind that i can play two games within 3-4 hours of each other and encounter polar differences. i understand that every official is different and has a way of calling/controlling the game, but still.

[Chadd 916]

Sometimes it is\would be nice to just tell two guys "to either drop them and get it over with or cut the shit and quit f...ing up everyone else's game".... Obviously this is frowned upon in amateurs where fighting is not permitted, but can still be beneficial as it gets them out of the game and settles everyone else down.

That's why I take my time when you have two guys jawing at or pushing each other. If I get right between then, I have to deal with it all night. If I take my time, they may solve the problem for me.

Officials cannot make players control themselves, nor can they make coaches maintain discipline on their benches. We make the calls after the fact as a reaction to what the players and coaches have chosen to do. When it reaches the point that we have to do something to maintain\regain control of a game then the players and coaches have already lost (discipline).

You ever notice how the coach that wants you to get control of the game is usually the one standing on the bench jumping up and down while he's yelling at you? Coach, how about you get control of yourself first and then your team?

[zebra_steve 11]

It's always interesting huh Chad..... The coach that wants it called to the letter of the rule, wants you to "let them play", or "call it both ways" is also the one that cries loudest when you do.... As for the guys jawing at each other, I don't get in between until it looks like it could be a problem. I will try to talk them out of the stupid penalties... really hard to complain if I'm LOUDLY telling them to cut the crap and get back in play and then sit them down when they don't.

Shotty,

The first guy did good. The second might just get a corrective interview if I were evaluating or supervising him.... The ONLY thing he was close to being right right about is that the keeper IS NOT permitted to throw the puck forward.... Generally he's allowed to toss it diagonally forward.... It IS NOT a penalty, it is a defensive zone face off (and only if it is played first by a teammate). See 615c below.

Rule 615 Handling Puck with Hands

(a) If a player, except a goalkeeper, closes his hand on the puck,

play shall be stopped and a face-off shall follow; however, if

the puck is dropped to the ice immediately, play shall not be

stopped.

If a goalkeeper holds the puck with his hand for more than

three seconds, play shall be stopped and a face-off shall

follow; however, after an initial warning by the Referee, a

goalkeeper who holds the puck unnecessarily shall be

assessed a minor penalty for delay of game.

(b) A goalkeeper shall not drop the puck into his pads or onto

the goal net, nor deliberately pile up snow or obstacles at or

near his goal that, in the opinion of the Referee, would tendto prevent the scoring of a goal. The penalty for infringement

of this rule by the goalkeeper shall be a minor penalty for

delay of game.

(Note 1) The object of this rule is to keep the puck in play

continuously and any action taken by the goalkeeper that

causes an unnecessary stoppage must be penalized.

(Note 2) The goalkeeper may not leave his stick or part

thereof in front of his goal. If he does and if the puck hits the

stick, thereby preventing an obvious and imminent goal

while the goalkeeper is on the ice, but in the act of leaving

the ice, or off the ice, the Referee shall stop play and award

a goal to the non-offending team. See Rule 621(f),

Interference.

© If a goalkeeper catches the puck and throws it forward

towards his opponent’s goal and it is first played by a

teammate, play shall be stopped and the ensuing face-off

shall be held at the nearest end face-off spot of the offending

team. (See also Rule 615(e).)

(d) A minor penalty for delay of game shall be imposed on a

player except the goalkeeper who, while play is in progress,

picks up the puck off the ice with his hand.

If a defending player, except the goalkeeper, while play is

in progress, picks up the puck with his hand from the ice in

the goal crease or holds the puck while the puck is in the

goal crease, the play shall be stopped immediately and a

penalty shot/optional minor penalty for delay of game shall

be awarded to the non-offending team.

If a defending player picks up the puck from the goal

crease or falls on or covers the puck in the crease thereby

preventing an obvious and imminent goal when the

goalkeeper has been removed from the ice, a goal shall be

awarded to the non-offending team.

(e) A player or goalkeeper shall be permitted to stop or “bat” the

puck in the air with his hand or push it along the ice with

his hand and play shall not be stopped unless he has directed

the puck to a teammate in any zone other than his

Defending Zone, in which case play shall be stopped and the

puck faced-off at the spot where the offense occurred unless

otherwise provided by these rules.

[fogelberg 9]

It cracked me up when I saw the rules for hand passes and the like posted here. Just the other night, I heard a gem from one of the officials doing my team's game. We were killing a penalty and our player attempted to clear the puck. A player on the other team jumped up and attempted to catch the puck. It went off his glove and was corralled at center ice by one of his teammate's. I thought that was the definition of a hand pass. They regained the zone and they eventually scored, and when we mentioned the lack of a call on the hand pass, were told that the guy wasn't trying to pass it to his teammate. Our captain asked to see where that was written in the rules, and the ref told him they're changing it right now. I found that kind of funny!

[Chadd 916]

It cracked me up when I saw the rules for hand passes and the like posted here. Just the other night, I heard a gem from one of the officials doing my team's game. We were killing a penalty and our player attempted to clear the puck. A player on the other team jumped up and attempted to catch the puck. It went off his glove and was corralled at center ice by one of his teammate's. I thought that was the definition of a hand pass. They regained the zone and they eventually scored, and when we mentioned the lack of a call on the hand pass, were told that the guy wasn't trying to pass it to his teammate. Our captain asked to see where that was written in the rules, and the ref told him they're changing it right now. I found that kind of funny!

There's a difference between it hitting a players glove and the puck being intentionally played with the hand.

[tareatingrat 4]

Had a ref last night who thought we were taking too long to line up (it was a slow change, but still within 10 seconds or so), so he just dropped the puck.

I nearly lost it when he did that. We were down in a somewhat close game, so I didn't want to screw over my team, but I was ready to take 10 for that and just let the ref have it. Absolute bullshit.

[BlackIce 1]

I like refs who don't speed up the last game of the night (e.g. 11:00pm). Hey I know you want to go home and all, but geez at least call the odd icing.

[Hermans 9]

I like refs who don't speed up the last game of the night (e.g. 11:00pm). Hey I know you want to go home and all, but geez at least call the odd icing.

Are you playing in toronto at TNHL at rinx? If so you're with about 20-30 guys and gals who agree with you every night.

[rachael7 1]

We had a ref tonight... omg. It was his first game of the day, so he had no excuse too. First thing he does, beginning of the game, is skate up to our goalie and tell her to freeze the puck as often as possible. At first, we thought it was just because his fat old ass couldn't keep up with the play (which he couldn't). Damn sad, considering the level of play and that it was his only game of the day. But it really got bad when on the way out of the rink after losing a game we should have won, in part due to his shitty calls, we find out that he is the other team's coach! Mother-effer! No wonder he wanted our tender to freeze the puck as much as possible... he was trying to give his girls free line changes on face-offs in our end! What an a-hole!

[Bravada 442 0]

As a fellow official (not a hockey guy, another sport), I hold the beer league guys to a somewhat higher level. While I don't understand the rules of hockey as well as I would need to understand in order to officiate, I do understand officiating theory and the way that you can manage a game/team/players/etc... I've yet to really deal with a beer league guy that I haven't had a good repertoire with because just about everyone of them knows that I officiate and I typically give them the respect that I believe they deserve as they do a job that many people hate and NO-ONE (other than officials themselves) understands. Roller officials are a different story in our area, I've yet to see one that is even slightly proficient at their job.

As for my pet peeves

1) POSITIONING - Nothing drives me more nuts than this. You can't, in good faith, tell me you are sure that puck didn't cross the goal line if you are standing at the top of the faceoff circle. If you are down on the line, or at least close, you can sell me a call. Sell what you saw. But you can't sell if you are way out of position.

2) CONSISTENCY - If you call the game the way you want it to be played in the first 5-10 minutes, it'll be played that way the rest of the night. But you can't let things get out of hand early on, and then when the game is getting a little physical later on you call the exact same infraction that you refused to call before. Now I do understand that if its 9-1 with 45 seconds left and the losing team makes a very simple trip that is not mean or an attempt to injure, you probably let that go. But consistency really is a key and its frustration when a ref tries to "reel in" a game that has gotten out of hand because he didn't want to work hard enough at the beginning of the game.

As for some tricks I like to use when I don the stripes...

When someone likes to say something a little off color towards me (swear words, questioning my sexuality, etc...) if it is said behind my back I will turn around and ask that player or person "I'm sorry, I didn't hear that, would you mind repeating it?" If they are dumb enough (or fired up enough) to repeat it, then you tag them with a penalty. Otherwise, you let it slide and remind the player that you are not going to deal with any sort of poor behavior during the evening. Now if they say it directly to your face, ring 'em up. There is no place for that.

I also never talk face to face with a player or coach during a discussion. It is poor body language and gives the impression that you are looking for an altercation. The best way to stand during a discussion that is heated is shoulder to shoulder with the person you are speaking with and focus on not matching the decibel level of their voice. It typically leads to a calmer, more reasoned discussion.

There are a bunch of other neat tricks and things I've learned that truly do work. I've been very fortunate to work with and be taught by officials that have worked at the absolute highest level of my chosen sport and they give you the very finite definitions and tricks they've learned over the years that really do make things a lot easier to deal with.