Junior (Cdn) vs Junior (US)

[Cams 7]

Couldn't come up with anything doing a search - so not sure if this topic is already covered but.....

Maybe it's just me, but I am sure a lot of the Canadian members might agree. "Juniors" in Canada to me means CHL (OHL, WHL, QMJHL), and obviously the B and C. What is considered "junior" in the US? Is that NAHL? USHL? I know with the US population being so much higher, there are obviously more leagues. Also - what are comparable leagues... I thinki it's common knowledge that the CHL (it's 3 regional leagues) are the cream of the crop for "Junior" in N. America, and it is certainly at the level, if not higher, as the NCAA.

Does Ontario Jr. B = NAHL for example???

Just curious to get a perspective from others.

[chippa13 1844]

I'm not so sure that you can say Canadian major junior is a higher level than NCAA. Just from an age standpoint, the average age of a Division 1 team would probably be 2-3 years older than a major junior team. There aren't a lot of true freshmen that play D.1 and those would be the 18-19 year olds. You'll have guys on D1 teams who played in the lower Canadian junior levels or American junior and entered school at 20/21 and have had those extra years of growth and development under their belts.

[BoDangles 0]

NCAA is completely different, there's no way you could compare the two.

I'm not sure really on how things cross, but comparing University/College hockey to Junior hockey is a terrible comparison as far as talent.

[goblue9280 33]

US Juniors Leagues are broken into three tiers. Tier 1 is the USHL, Tier 2 is the NAHL, and then Tier 3 has a bunch of leagues (AJHL, EJHL, NorPac, the new AWHL etc.) As far as comparisons to Canada... I've heard USHL (tier 1) is close to major junior/junior A, while NAHL (tier 2) is similar to Junior B/C level. But obviously comparisons between US/Canada junior hockey are going to vary widely.

[chippa13 1844]

NCAA is completely different, there's no way you could compare the two.

I'm not sure really on how things cross, but comparing University/College hockey to Junior hockey is a terrible comparison as far as talent.

Sure you can. Both systems have produced plenty of top tier talent in the pros. Yes, they play much different schedules and most feel that guys who go the major junior route can make an easier transition to the pros because of that but talent is talent, wherever it plays.

[BoDangles 0]

Sure you can. Both systems have produced plenty of top tier talent in the pros. Yes, they play much different schedules and most feel that guys who go the major junior route can make an easier transition to the pros because of that but talent is talent, wherever it plays.

Talent wise you can, I didn't say you couldn't in that part, but I'm saying from a league to league view, they are completely different.

Can't play NCAA at 16. NCAA is a more mature league, you get a lot of guys who have great two way games.

Both have great talent, but overall, the leagues are quite different.

If you want a lateral comparison. It would be NCAA to CIS

[goblue9280 33]

If you want a lateral comparison. It would be NCAA to CIS

Talent wise, not really. CIS is usually for players who didn't latch on to AHL/NHL teams after Major Juniors. Where as the NCAA is still seen as a stepping stone to those professional leagues.

[zachary 2]

I was under the impression that USHL and Major Juniors(QM, O, W) were close but after that Junior B and C(maybe not so much C) in Canada were still higher than the NAHL in the US. Although I have not played in any of them.

[BoDangles 0]

Talent wise, not really. CIS is usually for players who didn't latch on to AHL/NHL teams after Major Juniors. Where as the NCAA is still seen as a stepping stone to those professional leagues.

If you read my post from before, you would see that I was not talking about talent.

[twolinepass 0]

This is what wikipedia says:

Canada

Junior hockey in Canada is broken into several tiers, and players aged 16–20 at the beginning of the season are eligible. Hockey Canada is enacting rules designed to limit the number of 16-year-olds allowed to play junior hockey, preferring most remain at the midget level.^[1]

[edit]Major junior

Major junior hockey is overseen by the Canadian Hockey League, which acts as the governing body for its three constituent leagues:

• Quebec Major Junior Hockey League, operating in Quebec and Atlantic Canada with 17 teams
  
• Ontario Hockey League, operating in Ontario, Pennsylvania, and Michigan with 18 teams
  
• Western Hockey League, operating in Western Canada and the U.S. Pacific Northwest with 22 teams
  

The CHL currently places a cap of three 20-year-old or overage players per team, while only four 16-year-olds are permitted. While fifteen-year-old players were formerly permitted to play a limited number of games per season at the CHL level, they are now permitted to play only if they are deemed exceptional by the CHL. Two players to date have qualified under this rule: center John Tavares in 2005 and defenseman Aaron Ekblad in 2011. CHL teams are currently permitted two imports, or European players each, though this cap is expected to be reduced to one within a couple of seasons.^[2]

CHL teams are considered professional by the NCAA; thus any player who plays a game at the Major Junior level loses his eligibility to play for American universities. He retains eligibility for Canadian universities however, and all three leagues have programs in place to grant scholarships for any player who plays in these leagues provided he does not turn professional once his junior career ends. Many of the top North American prospects for the NHL play in the CHL.

The champion of each league competes in an annual tournament with a predetermined host team for the Memorial Cup, Canada's national Major Junior championship.

Up until 1970, the leagues that became Major Junior and Junior A today were both known as Junior A. In 1970 they were divided into Tier I Junior A or Major Junior A and Tier II Junior A. In 1980, the three Major Junior A leagues opted for self control over being controlled by the branches of the Canadian Amateur Hockey Association and became Major Junior hockey, Tier II Junior A became the top tier of hockey in these branches and became Junior A hockey.

[edit]Junior A

Junior A (junior AAA in Quebec) hockey is one level below the CHL. Junior A was referred to as Tier II Junior A in the 1970s, until what was called Major Junior A broke away from their regional branches in 1980 and became the Canadian Hockey League and Major Junior hockey, at this time, the term Tier II was dropped from what is now Junior A hockey. It is governed by the Canadian Junior Hockey League, which oversees eleven constituent leagues across Canada. The national championship is the Royal Bank Cup. This level of hockey was created in 1970 when the Major Junior level broke away from the Canadian Amateur Hockey Association, although the affiliation was later amended.

Junior A teams are considered amateur by the NCAA, thus players intending to go to American universities tend to choose this route rather than play in the CHL. Junior A teams tend to play in much smaller markets than CHL teams, and thus play to much smaller crowds.

[edit]Junior B, C, D

Junior B (junior AA in Quebec) was created in 1933, to differentiate between teams capable for Memorial Cup competition and those who were not. The major championships across Canada are theSutherland Cup in Southern Ontario, the Carson Trophy in the Ottawa District, the Coupe Dodge in Quebec, the Don Johnson Cup in the Atlantic Provinces, and the Keystone Cup which represents all of Western Canada, from British Columbia to Northwestern Ontario.

Junior C (junior A in Quebec) is generally a local based system, but is considered competitive in some regions, and serve as seeding or farm-teams for Junior B teams. Ontario Junior C Hockey has 6 rounds of playoffs (up to 42 games of best-of-seven playoff rounds) for the Clarence Schmalz Cup which was first awarded in 1938. The Ontario playdowns are played for between 6 of the Province's 7 different regional leagues. In Quebec and West of Manitoba, Junior C hockey tends to be an extension of the local minor hockey system and is sometimes called Juvenile or House League. In Ontario, Manitoba, and the Maritimes, Junior C is run independently of minor hockey systems, though with the same mostly recreational purpose.

Junior D was popular in the 1960s and 1970s in dense population centers, but fell off in the early 1990s. In Quebec, Junior D is now known as Junior B and is run strictly by minor hockey associations. The last Junior D league is the OHA's Southern Ontario Junior Hockey League, the result of the merger of the Northern, Western, and Southern Junior D leagues in the late 1980s. At 16 teams, the league renamed itself a Junior Development league in the early 1990s, and the SOJHL in 2006. In recent years, the SOJHL has been trying to get itself declared a Junior C league.

Teams at the lower level of junior hockey tend to operate as extensions of local minor hockey systems. While some future NHLers come from the lower levels of junior hockey, they are few. There is no national governing body at these levels, only provincial.

[edit]United States

As in Canada, junior hockey in the United States is subdivided into several levels. Currently, there are eight American teams in the Canadian Hockey League: four teams in Washington and one inOregon in the Western Hockey League; and two teams in Michigan and one in Pennsylvania within the Ontario Hockey League.

[edit]Tier I

The United States Hockey League (USHL) is currently the only Tier I league in the country, it consists of teams in the central and Midwestern US. The USHL provides an alternative to Major Junior Hockey for kids who want to play in the NCAA. While playing in the USHL, all player expenses are paid for by the team; no membership or equipment fees are charged. Unlike Major Junior teams however, the pro drafting is significantly less and the free-college stipend does not exist. Tier I in the US is on par with Junior A in Canada, though the actual skill levels may vary by region. Quality of play in the USHL has improved to Junior A levels in the past 15 years, with about 10% of NHL players having played USHL in their career^[3] (compared with 40% who have played NCAA Division I hockey at some time). Between 80 and 90 percent of USHL players play NCAA hockey, as this is the main reason for playing Tier I instead of Major Junior in Canada.

[edit]Tier II

Currently the North American Hockey League is the only Tier II league in the United States. The NAHL is the largest junior hockey league in the US and consists teams spread across the Western two thirds of the United States with a significant concentration of teams in the central and southwestern parts of the United States. The NAHL, like the USHL, provides young players an alternative to Major Junior hockey, although the skill level is significantly lower than Major Junior hockey and typically filled with those who would not or did not make the roster of a Tier I team. While playing in the NAHL, all player expenses minus room and board are paid for by the team; this is similar to some of the lower Junior B teams in Canada.

[edit]Tier III

The United States currently has twelve Tier III leagues: the Atlantic Junior Hockey League, American West Hockey League, Eastern Junior Hockey League, North American 3 Hockey League,Minnesota Junior Hockey League, Northern Pacific Hockey League, Western States Hockey League, Eastern States Hockey League, Empire Junior Hockey League, Great Lakes Junior Hockey League, Metropolitan Junior Hockey League, and the Southeast Junior Hockey League. In addition to paying for room and board, players at the Tier III level pay a fee, commonly ranging from $4,000 to $6,500. ^[4] This is for all accounts and purposes an amateur level, although some players go directly to NCAA Division I schools, most Tier III Junior A players are looking to increase their skills in hopes to move up to Tier I or II, other players go directly to NCAA Division III and ACHA schools.

Prior to July 2011, USA Hockey, the sanctioning body for youth hockey in the US, split Tier III into Junior A and B divisions.

[raganblink 82]

There is a lot of mis-information in this thread...

CHL (OHL, WHL, QMJHL) is creame of the crop for junior hockey. The next level is USHL (US). talent wise, the CHL has better talent, but, its not by much. Your lower level and mid-tier CHL team is your average USHL team. The top 8-10 teams in CHL hands down are better then any team in the USHL, but 10-50 in the CHL are equal to 1-10 in the USHL, and the worst teams in the CHL are still better then the worst teams in the USHL, there are a couple USHL teams based on draft, coaching, etc that just makes for an awful team.

Those guys are top 2. Then there is a huge talent drop to Junior A (canada). My buddies can play in that league, and they are just awful. Next is NAHL (US). The gaps between US and NA are huge, same with gaps between MJ and Jr A. Next league would probably be the EJHL, who yes is in tier 3, but always has some amazing talent stay because they are local. Next would be Jr B (canada),then like the AJ (US) then Jr C and then probably Jr B in the US then Jr D in canada, then Jr C (but really, Jr B in the US, and Jr C in both countries is just bush anyways).

Jr B and C in canada are nothing close to the NAHL or USHL.

[adam14 182]

what about tier 2 Jr A in canada? the BCHL for example? great hockey league for kids looking to go D1.

[Law Goalie 147]

Tier-2 or provincial Jr.A varies largely by region. Where the major junior (CHL) leagues predominate, the provincial Jr.A is a definite cut below: they're essentially farm teams for the major junior clubs, composed primarily of younger players preparing for the next level and some very talented guys trying to preserve NCAA eligibility, filled out by guys who just can't hack major junior. Some of the teams in the BCHL and the OPJHL have really, really good hockey players, but they tend to only be there for a couple of years at most; the best are only there to bridge the gap between youth hockey and the next level.

Would a top BCHL or OPJHL team be able to compete with even a weak major junior team? Probably not. Would those teams include a few guys that any major junior team would take on in a heartbeat? Absolutely.

[adam14 182]

Great post law, I agree fully that tier 2 jr a is a definite step below major junior, I currently play in one of the tier 2 leagues mentioned here, and even the best players I play with or against would struggle to be top 9 on an ohl team.