Race4LastPlace 31 Report post Posted November 10, 2011 coaches have been fired for far far less than this... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chadd 916 Report post Posted November 10, 2011 certain individuals in administration got the local DA to back off when this all happened a decade ago. Some of those same individuals were celebrating tonight after they refused to let Paterno retire on his terms. Announcing his retirement was a huge decision for him, he did not want to do it.my phone has been blowing up all day, lots of info coming in from friends up that way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fastbrother7 0 Report post Posted November 10, 2011 People can say what they will about "lets see what comes out in trial, and indictments require a lesser burden of proof," but we arent talking about a drug ring, corporate fraud, or tax evasion here. We talking about a guy who raped kids over a multi-decade span under the guise of a camp for disadvantaged youth; and the cover-up that followed. Maybe Im bias because of what I do for a living, but if a child tells me something, I don't ask them if they are sure they were touched there or tell them that maybe it was a misunderstanding and I dont think anyone else should either. Furthermore, you have multiple people corroborating these series of events as well. Hell even college football's Gretzky of coaches knew some weird stuff was going on and didnt follow up. This goes above the legal issues and civil suits that will hit Penn State. Its about general morality. I mean I dont tote a bible, and there are some situations that I would consider not my business, but turning a blind-eye to child abuse isnt one of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Axxion89 32 Report post Posted November 10, 2011 I'll let Paterno speak for himself rather than have 98% of country make assumptions about he did or did not do. Keep in mind that the same people who told Paterno what had occurred (The Grad Assistant) and the people who knew (The AD, the VP, the Janitors) also did not report these crimes to the police. This by no means clears anybody of blame or obligation but to me, it tells me that there is more information that is going to be revealed and that it should answer most questions. The fact that Penn State cancelled Paterno's presser (which he was looking forward to answer questions) alone tells me that there is much more than what people like to assume. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrangler 157 Report post Posted November 10, 2011 Spanier was expected to be kicked outFiring Paterno was gutless and pathetic, they even said after the firing that they don't have all of the facts and they still do that? Back peddling at its finest, I feel bad for whoever decides to take the head coaching job and all the vacated positions at that school, its going to be a mess for years to come. Will be interesting to hear what Paterno has to sayThat did sound bad, stating that there were several things they didn't want to address until time brought out all the facts, while admitting they didn't have much (or anything) more than what we've all heard, as a basis for firing Paterno. It was sad that his termination was decided and announced with Spanier's, tarring them with the same brush.It seems to me that the board was mainly concerned with how to divert the negative publicity from the school as quickly and effectively as possible, and didn't care much about how its treatment of Paterno would reflect on the university. Also, from some comments, I have to wonder if they wanted to get rid of him, and found it convenient to ride the wave.People can say what they will about "lets see what comes out in trial, and indictments require a lesser burden of proof," but we arent talking about a drug ring, corporate fraud, or tax evasion here. We talking about a guy who raped kids over a multi-decade span under the guise of a camp for disadvantaged youth; and the cover-up that followed. Maybe Im bias because of what I do for a living, but if a child tells me something, I don't ask them if they are sure they were touched there or tell them that maybe it was a misunderstanding and I dont think anyone else should either. Furthermore, you have multiple people corroborating these series of events as well. Hell even college football's Gretzky of coaches knew some weird stuff was going on and didnt follow up. This goes above the legal issues and civil suits that will hit Penn State. Its about general morality. I mean I dont tote a bible, and there are some situations that I would consider not my business, but turning a blind-eye to child abuse isnt one of them.I share your sentiments against this type of behavior. I just like facts. It sounds as though you're sure about exactly what happened, but I'm not yet, regarding who knew what and what they should have done, and what was OK to leave up to other people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chadd 916 Report post Posted November 10, 2011 ...from some comments, I have to wonder if they wanted to get rid of him, and found it convenient to ride the wave.they asked him to resign in 2004 and he refused. The resentment has been brewing for a long time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrangler 157 Report post Posted November 10, 2011 they asked him to resign in 2004 and he refused. The resentment has been brewing for a long time.That's one of the things I had in mind. I just didn't know how much resentment was still there, and whether it had grown very strong over time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
troy 12 Report post Posted November 10, 2011 That is just stupid.C'mon chippa I thought you were good at sarcasm. Also University Park's text alert system is telling students police have issued an official dispersal order for Old Main and downtown State College.Edit: I never really thought riots were in doubt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goblue9280 33 Report post Posted November 10, 2011 I'll let Paterno speak for himself rather than have 98% of country make assumptions about he did or did not do.Did you read the grand jury report? Paterno did speak for himself. He testified that McQueary told him he walked in on Sandusky in the shower with a 10-year old boy and that Sandusky was fondling him or doing something of a sexual nature. Joe also testified to what he did, which was to tell the AD... and that's it. Paterno was fired for knowing what happened (which he admits to in his testimony) and not doing more. He enabled a pedophile and most certainly deserved to be fired for a lack of sound moral judgement. To me, this is the first non gutless thing the PSU administration has done to date. Now they need to fire McQueary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Axxion89 32 Report post Posted November 10, 2011 Did you read the grand jury report? Paterno did speak for himself. He testified that McQueary told him he walked in on Sandusky in the shower with a 10-year old boy and that Sandusky was fondling him or doing something of a sexual nature. Joe also testified to what he did, which was to tell the AD... and that's it. Paterno was fired for knowing what happened (which he admits to in his testimony) and not doing more. He enabled a pedophile and most certainly deserved to be fired for a lack of sound moral judgement. To me, this is the first non gutless thing the PSU administration has done to date. Now they need to fire McQueary.Yea its totally gutless to fire the face of a University over the phone, cancel his press conference to allow him to explain himself, and fire him while admitting they never let him speak for himself or understand any or all of the facts, really admirable of an organization. I did read that report and it issues no details of what the GA said to Paterno other than what was vague. Its easy for everyone today to say that Paterno should have done more but everybody needs to step back and and breathe for a minute and think; what did Paterno really know? What did the GA really say in 2002 and not to some grand jury 8 years later. Right now everyone in the media and most of society are on their high horse whipping a man for what he should have done yet nobody is questioning why McQueery has a job still, why nobody is hanging the two men who should have legally done something about it, or hang the man who did these heinous acts. Instead, everyone is going to whip the 85 year old man who has yet to speak for himself and judge him based on speculation and what a few sentences in a report say. People such as yourself have already made up your mind without even hearing the man speak and you are entitled to what you believe, but before I make any judgements about a man, I want to hear what that person has to say for himself and not what the media (who all of a sudden became the moral voice of a country) or a few sentences in a report about actions that occurred 8 years ago (what was said 8 years ago and what is reported today can vary greatly) have to say. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chippa13 1844 Report post Posted November 10, 2011 Saw that that Paterno was fired last night and then saw this morning that the president of Penn State has also been fired. I'm betting those aren't the only two who get the axe but I'm glad that it seems everyone in a place of authority when this all happened is finally being held accountable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skeeter14 0 Report post Posted November 10, 2011 what is incredible to me is how extremely naive people i see on facebook react to this. As if the media is in State College because this is about the victims. They are only there for JoePa's head, they got it...and there will probably be no coverage (short of a major development) after Saturday, because that when the first game without JoePa is. More thank likely I have stupid friends haha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chippa13 1844 Report post Posted November 10, 2011 The media is interested because it is a high profile program involved in the scandal, Paterno is just an interesting sidenote. Had this happened at any other high profile D1 football school then the response would have been the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Race4LastPlace 31 Report post Posted November 10, 2011 This should be more about the victims than Paterno. Unfortunately it's not.Every University has a professional code of conduct, which typically includes a moral code. Granted they aren't typically as extensive as say Brigham Young University, but it's something every employee, student, and administrator must follow. Obviously the Board felt Paterno violated those in some aspect. If Paterno wants to talk, let him talk now, but the board made it's decision.Obviously Paterno knew SOMETHING. While he may not have known the exact details, his job is to be a leader of young men. Did he pass on what he knew, yes. And that was it. Saying he "vaguely remembers McQuery using the words 'fondling' 'touching' and 'horsing around' in the showers". Knowing this, Paterno allowed him to remain on campus, and have use of all facilities. Facilities that Paterno is absolutely responsible for.Was it not a year ago everyone was on the verge of crucifying Jim Tressel? while he did not break any laws, his players were selling THEIR OWN memorabilia for cash and tattoos, and he was covering it up. Bruce Pearl had a recruit over for a barbecue, Miami had an outside booster giving cash and alcohol (and other things) to players, and SMU was given the death penalty. Those things were not illegal, but those programs were vilified.And here we have a program, knowing there was not only immoral, but absolutely illegal, acts committed consistently around, and inside their facilities. Committed by someone who used his status with the university to abuse children. The fact that this went on KNOWINGLY for years, I have no sympathy for any actions being taken against those involved. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goblue9280 33 Report post Posted November 10, 2011 but before I make any judgements about a man, I want to hear what that person has to say for himselfIt's in the grand jury report. Paterno was interviewed by the grand jury and told them that McQueary told him he walked in on Sandusky and a 10 year old boy in the showers and that Sandusky was fondling him or doing something of a sexual nature. That's it right there... from Paterno himself... he knew that something sexual happened in 2002 between a 10 year old and his longtime friend/assistant coach and didn't alert the police right away. Instead he told the AD and washed his hands of the whole situation. I don't need anything further, that alone is an indefensible action and warrants being fired.If it is true that the trustees fired Joe by simply sending a letter with a phone number to call, I will agree that they could of handled it much better. And like I've stated for days, McQueary needed to be fired already... I can't believe they haven't done that yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrangler 157 Report post Posted November 10, 2011 According to ESPN, Tom Bradley, the interim football coach, has said that McQueary will coach Saturday, from either the sideline or the press box.Something seems out of balance when a witness to a crime doesn't report what he saw and keeps his job, but people he spoke to are fired, apparently for not reporting hearsay. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fastbrother7 0 Report post Posted November 10, 2011 From yahoo.com:"Paterno’s almost sole defense is that he fulfilled his legal obligations and did nothing more. He has stated that he was told of “something inappropriate involving (Sandusky)” during an “incident in the shower of our locker room facility.” He told his athletic director. He never called the cops. He apparently never followed up on how the school’s investigation was going. Inside the bubble his defenders suggest that he didn’t have the full story. Outside of it people wonder how the words “inappropriate” and “shower” involving an old man and a young boy weren’t enough."As far as his culpability, I think the quote above sums it up. But as someone else mentioned in this topic, it should be more about the victims and less about Joe Paterno, but the contrast and almost irony of this all makes it tough for the media to stay away. Here you have a legendary coach that prided himself on class and honor and running a tight ship in terms of NCAA rules and academia. Meanwhile, this same man was able to (for whatever reason, not that it matters) allow himself to walk away from acting on something so dishonorable and classless. Its really sad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrangler 157 Report post Posted November 10, 2011 Exactly what did Joe hear, do, or not do? What did the the victim and his parents want, as far as a resolution, quiet or noisy? Why didn't they pursue a police investigation? Was Sandusky eased out because of this, and was he watched closely in the meantime? Were there reasonable attempts, that we don't know about, made to protect children? What other factors influenced the behavior of the individuals under the spotlight here? Why is there so much talk about a guy who heard a story, rather than about the guy who saw it -- the only one who could be a witness? These are only a few of the questions that come to mind, prompting me to wait for the rest of the story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chk hrd 164 Report post Posted November 10, 2011 Paterno and anyone else who did nothing should be fired. If he reported the guy and continued allowing him to work without question then he is just as accountable as anyone for what happened to those children. What is gutless and pathetic is letting this go on for 9 years without anything being done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Machinehead2k5 32 Report post Posted November 11, 2011 The DA who did not prosecute Sandusky in 99? Has been missing since 2005... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrangler 157 Report post Posted November 11, 2011 ESPN is reporting that McQueary has received "multiple threats", and will not be present at tomorrow's game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
McDugan 89 Report post Posted November 11, 2011 This should be more about the victims than Paterno. Unfortunately it's not.The fact that this went on KNOWINGLY for years, I have no sympathy for any actions being taken against those involved.I agree with you, but we must remember that the victims (thank God) are anonymous. The attention is going to the most high-profile person involved and that's only natural when something this sensational breaks. Spanier, McQueary, the AD and the guy with the creepy mustache... those guys are getting off easy in terms of media scrutiny because JoePa is the big story.Yea its totally gutless to fire the face of a University over the phone, cancel his press conference to allow him to explain himself, and fire him while admitting they never let him speak for himself or understand any or all of the facts, really admirable of an organization.I agree that it sucks, but what else were they supposed to do? All the trustees can do at this point is carry out damage control, and they had to cancel his press conference (What's he going to say? They are protecting Penn State as an institution - at this point everything any of these people does is a potential liability for the school when the civil court bomb goes off). They had to sever the relationship with him now. As ugly as it is, I don't see any way a responsible board could have allowed him to stay. Frankly I'm surprised McQueary wasn't let go too, but there certainly seems to be more to this than meets our eyes or the Grand Jury report. This reeks of some sort of quid pro quo or blackmail going on, and I think many more heads will roll before it's all over, especially if the rumors about Sandusky pimping kids out to major donors (!!!) have even a kernel of truth to them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrangler 157 Report post Posted November 11, 2011 McQueary has been placed indefinitely on admnistrative leave, according to the new president, Erickson. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joshison 1 Report post Posted November 14, 2011 McQueary is a coward. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goblue9280 33 Report post Posted November 14, 2011 Big Ten just announced they are removing JoePa's name from the Big 10 Championship Game Trophy (this is the 1st year it will be awarded)... it'll now simply be the Stagg Championship Trophy. They did the right thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites