Derek Boogaard Video - NY Times

[skeeter14 0]

Didn't see this posted anywhere...

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/12/04/sports/hockey/boogaard-video.html#chapter/1

great job by the NY Times and a really good look at the torture he went through.

[jds 20]

wow. Powerful stuff. Definitely worth the time investment.

[ibeck 38]

Bob Probert's book gives really good insight to this topic to. I'm never going to look at a fight the same way after seeing these videos.

[strosedefence34 175]

i was just about to post this. Very good read/ video

[wrangler 157]

Truly sad the way this stuff is institutionalized, and how early it starts.

[jds 20]

Now Bettman is trying to downplay the tragedy of Boogard's confirmed CTE claiming it is just speculation that it was caused by fighting. Weasel.

[skyscrape 5]

Wow....just wow. RIP

[CaptainFantastik 0]

I'll never watch/enjoy fights in the same way again either, not without a good measure of shame. I've been sliding this way for some time but the last year has really cemented it for me. With what we now know about concussions and CTE I know I care far more about the well being of these individuals than I do about fighting's place in the game. In the back of our minds how could we not have known that all those shots to the head had a cumulative effect? We didn't want to think about it. We didn't want to know perhaps. But now we do, and guys like Don Cherry need to be taken out back and given the Old Yeller treatment. To know what we do now and to know what it does to these people's lives and still passionately argue that this is necessary, to me, is the height of Cognitive Dissonance. They are now part of the problem, more than ever. I find it disgusting how institutionalized it is in those developmental leagues. Totally ridiculous.

RIP Derek Boogard

[hampshirepuck 2]

I find it disgusting how institutionalized it is in those developmental leagues. Totally ridiculous. RIP Derek Boogard

Saw a fight at a Halifax Mooseheads(QMJHL) game a few weeks back only 15 seconds into the game, for the first time in a while i felt kind of disgusted to watch, the kids were only 17-18 and I was paying to watch it, i wonder what those kids are going to be like when they are 30

[Law Goalie 147]

Truly sad the way this stuff is institutionalized, and how early it starts.

That is the problem. There is absolutely nothing wrong with two guys in the heat of a game deciding to vent their spleens by taking a few swings at one another -- provided that they both know when and how to let it go. The Ovechkin-Dubinsky fight is a great example, as are most of Iginla's fights, but the best one is probably Kane-Cooke, in which Kane not only gets into the fight for all the right reasons, and knocks Cooke the hell out with absolutely letter-perfect technique, but grabs Cooke's sweater to keep the back of his now-unconscious head from hitting the ice.

The problem is that in the course of training players how to fight properly, or just encouraging ittwo things happen: kids who are marginal players but really good at fighting get to stick around, and they are told either explicitly or implicitly that their ticket to the next level is to beat people up. They're admired, they start making a little money with the promise of even more, and all they have to do is keep fighting.

The other thing that needs to get beaten out of the game with a bullwhip is the idea that a 'takedown' is a win in a fight. That is fully and completely a commentators' invention of the last decade. Look at fights from the 70s, 80s and 90s: they almost invariably end standing up, unless somebody slips, and if there's a slip, they go down together protectively and then keep fighting on the ice. Gee, I wonder if it's a good idea to be trying to hurl each other against a surface as hard as concrete - you know, because all other grappling sports don't use carefully designed surfaces or anything.

I would love to see two things cause massive suspensions: takedowns in fights, and fights that do not arise organically from the play. By organically I mean if Player A hits B, and B gets up and fights A, no problem. If A is shaken up and decides to settle the grudge later - no matter how much later, see Booth and Richards - no problem. If at any time Players C, D, etc. enter the picture, unless B is incapacitated or there is an enormous disparity in size or power between A and B -- ie. C is 'sticking up' for B in the heat of the moment, eg. B is a goalie or Nathan Gerbe -- those players get tossed, and their conduct reviewed. Call it the Third Man Rule on HGH.

I really don't have a problem with guys like Shawn Thornton who play an honest, energetic, effective 4th-line shift and stick up for their teammates when they have to. Engeland's another good example. Colton Orr, on the other hand...

[Welch27 0]

That is the problem. There is absolutely nothing wrong with two guys in the heat of a game deciding to vent their spleens by taking a few swings at one another -- provided that they both know when and how to let it go. The Ovechkin-Dubinsky fight is a great example, as are most of Iginla's fights, but the best one is probably Kane-Cooke, in which Kane not only gets into the fight for all the right reasons, and knocks Cooke the hell out with absolutely letter-perfect technique, but grabs Cooke's sweater to keep the back of his now-unconscious head from hitting the ice.

The problem is that in the course of training players how to fight properly, or just encouraging ittwo things happen: kids who are marginal players but really good at fighting get to stick around, and they are told either explicitly or implicitly that their ticket to the next level is to beat people up. They're admired, they start making a little money with the promise of even more, and all they have to do is keep fighting.

The other thing that needs to get beaten out of the game with a bullwhip is the idea that a 'takedown' is a win in a fight. That is fully and completely a commentators' invention of the last decade. Look at fights from the 70s, 80s and 90s: they almost invariably end standing up, unless somebody slips, and if there's a slip, they go down together protectively and then keep fighting on the ice. Gee, I wonder if it's a good idea to be trying to hurl each other against a surface as hard as concrete - you know, because all other grappling sports don't use carefully designed surfaces or anything.

I would love to see two things cause massive suspensions: takedowns in fights, and fights that do not arise organically from the play. By organically I mean if Player A hits B, and B gets up and fights A, no problem. If A is shaken up and decides to settle the grudge later - no matter how much later, see Booth and Richards - no problem. If at any time Players C, D, etc. enter the picture, unless B is incapacitated or there is an enormous disparity in size or power between A and B -- ie. C is 'sticking up' for B in the heat of the moment, eg. B is a goalie or Nathan Gerbe -- those players get tossed, and their conduct reviewed. Call it the Third Man Rule on HGH.

I really don't have a problem with guys like Shawn Thornton who play an honest, energetic, effective 4th-line shift and stick up for their teammates when they have to. Engeland's another good example. Colton Orr, on the other hand...

I agree with this. I think that fighting has a part in the game, but it has to be the heat of the moment fights, not the rehearsed ones with guys who only get 3 minutes of ice time a game. If you cannot play at a NHL level, you shouldnt be on the ice just because you can fight.

[hampshirepuck 2]

Just checked boogaard's nhl career stats he had only had 16 points but 589 Penalty minutes.... does that say something?

[jds 20]

Hockey seems to be the only sport where teams have "enforcers" unofficially on their roster. That says something about the ridiculousness of the staged fights to "police" the game. Have the refs call more penalties for cheap shots and there won't be as much need to settle a score. If, in the heat of the moment, as LawGoalie says, a fight ensues, then so be it but penalize the players appropriately. Let's not forget if the same situation occurred on the street, there would be criminal charges. I'm not saying revisit that route, but, if our society feels that such behaviour is inappropriate and yet we actually encourage it in hockey we are really setting up these poor saps whose only role is fighting for huge psychological conflict (which has plenty of documentation ) all for the sake of entertainment. I say ditch the staged fights and penalize the heat of the moment fights more harshly and tell the goddamned bingo callers on tv to stop foaming at the mouth during these fights.

[MLSman 22]

Amazingly well done...and quite scary. I have two good friends right now in the SPHL that are fighters...hits home when it could be people you know personally. I don't have the heart to talk to them about it yet because it is how they are making a living...but the thought of them possibly heading down that road is frightening.

[wrangler 157]

I finally watched the last part of this, including Bettman's comments. It's interesting that he doesn't seem to perceive (or, at least, address) the difference in punishing hits to the head during gameplay, and fights, which always include hits to the head, with intent.

His comments regarding the CTE research are eerily reminiscent of those we've heard regarding tobacco, Agent Orange, etc., through the years. And yet he's behind the discipline for head shots, which was apparently driven, in part, by this research. But it's not good enough to condemn the repeated blows to the head in fighting. This man should have a bright future in politics.

[MLSman 22]

Agreed. When he speaks he either sounds like the CEO of a financial company or a well coached politician. There is no reason why he or anyone else in hockey should have to discredit some seriously damning evidence of scientific correlation. I would have more respect for him if he just would tell the truth and say that fighting has been a part of the history of the game, and a part that has financially drawn fans and adds to the economic aspect of the business of hockey. Until the fans stop paying for fighting and/or the increase in concussion awareness eliminates the ability of a player to be a career fighter...we as a league will not change this aspect of the game's history. You can't successfully argue with the truth...so stop trying to place the blame someplace else.

[Jason Harris 31]

Wrangler, I went to the NHL Awards Show and the NHL Draft last year with Kerry Goulet. During the Awards Show they had a taped segment with Snoop Dogg and another with Shinedown. Let's just say the sixty and seventy year old men sitting around me weren't bebopping their heads. I told Kerry that it seemed like the producer must have owed some chits to those performers, and, sure enough, two nights later I met the head of events for the NHL who told me what a mistake it had been and had purely been the producer's call.

But before meeting the events guy, I see Bettman standing alone in the lobby of the hotel. I obviously don't know the man, but I figured I'd say a joke to him, get a chuckle, and then see what kind of interesting conversation followed. So I said, "No more Snoop Dogg!"

It was amazing, but in the next twenty seconds I quickly learned that Gary Bettman is more concerned about winning arguments than he is about being right. Sure, I was a nobody that he was talking to, but the easy response was, "Yeah, I'm not sure if that went over as well as we hoped!" Instead, he threw whatever he could to stick on the wall. As facile as his mind was, he was pure lip service.

[wrangler 157]

Well, I haven't hit 60 yet, but I can relate to that audience. Good thing for me I have a mute control, not being there in person.

That's very interesting about Bettman. My expectation would have been the same as yours, at least a smile, and a happy disposition at the event.

[Apes44 7]

Finally read this article, and all i can say is wow. Such a shame and as someone who has had several concussions it scares me for my future. It also is making me really rethink my view on fighting in hockey

[Philly Fly-hairs 0]

after reading the articles and watching the videos i teared up im not gonna lie. what a shame to lose such a big guy with an even bigger heart in this way. i lost a cousin to drug addiction so i can relate. i always admired boogaard for his work ethic and of course his fists. i dont think fighting should be removed or rules should be changed however,

hockey is a unique sport where guys can drop the mitts and have at it. and very few people who are involved deeply on the business side can say what they want, but the people who have been there done that and played in the show and grew up playing (most of them at least) will say they do not want anything changed majorly to the game. there is more awareness to concussions now, and hopefully the trend of what happened this past summer with so many loses to the hockey world ceases

[Jason Harris 31]

But if the trend

there is more awareness to concussions now, and hopefully the trend of what happened this past summer with so many loses to the hockey world ceases

But if it turns out the fighting led to concussions, which had a cause in the deaths, how would we be able to stop this trend of enforcers' deaths without changing the rules regarding fighting?

[Philly Fly-hairs 0]

@jason harris

i completely understand where your coming from with this. that was my opinion not any facts. but you have to look at it like this

1) with the more knowledge that we are finding out and players are becoming aware of... they still are accepting and embracing fighting, and they along with those who run the league feel that it should still be a part of the game

2) the nhl would only turn into a league of cheapshot artist and gutless players who would get away with comeplete BS on the ice (sadly its happening somewhat now). fighting is already down this year

[dsjunior1388 81]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/04/sports/hockey/in-hockey-enforcers-descent-a-flood-of-prescription-drugs.html?_r=4&pagewanted=2&ref=sports&pagewanted=all

Boogaard's father concludes investigation, discovers staggering drug use, almost no oversight of team doctors. At one point the boogeyman took over 600 oxycodone or hydrocodone pills from 10 different doctors.