Bauer/Mission, Easton and Reebok/CCM are being cruel to Australians

[alex8337 0]

So I have a question for everyone that likes to get a fair deal on their hockey gear.... Comments from all nationalities are welcome.

Why won't Bauer/Mission, Easton (and as of recently) Reebok/CCM allow the big US/CA hockey stores post their products to Australia?

The question is fairly simple and has nothing to do with import duties or taxes. There are no duties or taxes on products coming into Australia for less than $1,000. I'll get into a little more detail below, but the subject question will remain the same.

So everyone in Australia knows that Bauer/Mission and Easton have agreements (possibly illegal?) with the big hockey stores (monkey, warehouse etc) and that they have agreed to disallow their branded products to be posted to Australia.

Only recently has Reebok/CCM followed suit and done the same.

I can purchase any Warrior, Alkali, Tour, Miken, Revision, Sherwood, Cascade, Graf or Eagle product and go through the checkout to have it posted to Australia with international shipping. With it arriving in Australia and in my hands within about three weeks.

But if I have so much as a single bolt (Bauer wheel axle bolt $2.50) from any of those brands, then I am informed that I have products in my cart that are unable to be posted to Australia and that they must be removed to proceed.

I contacted Reebok/CCM to ask them why (as of recently) the large US/CA stores won't allow their products to be posted to Australia and they wrongly accused Australia of having import duties and taxes but this is blatantly wrong, which after a brief exchange of messages the Reebok/CCM representitive refused to acknowledge or give a valid explanation for.

I wouldn't have so much of a problem with this kind of anti-competitive behavior if the Australian retailers didn't have phenomenally high prices and trying to knock off last year or the year before's stock at higher prices (no price reduction for old stock). There are not enough stores in Australia to be competitive, the retailers can charge whatever they like and often their products are hundreds of dollars more expensive that the US/CA equivalent. Which would be fine if I could buy the gear from the US/CA instead but Bauer/Mission, Easton and Reebok/CCM won't allow it.

Some examples that I can give from personal experience...

-Bauer XX ice skate from 2004/2005 was $999 in most Australian stores but between $600-700 in US/CA

-Reebok 11K composite stick was about $250 including postage from US/CA (I bought one recently) but between $350-400 in Australia

-Bauer RX60 inline skates where $999 but I convinced an Australian store to price match (but including international postage) to the US/CA stores for $750. Thats a $250 price drop but I still could have gotten them shipped from overseas for the exact same price.

-Easton gear kit (shoulder, helmet, gloves, pants, knee, elbow, the lot) was just under $1,000 cheaper from the US for the same models in Australia. I was hit with a $500 postage price (Had to use BongoUS [HORRIBLE company] that charged $500 postage) but it was still $500 cheaper than in Australia. So I was still better off buying from the US/CA. I tried asking for a package deal from a retailer here but their discounts where pathetic in comparison to the overall price drop.

All of this doesn't make any sense when the Australian dollar is on par (sometimes stronger) than the US dollar.

These Australian retailers are either refusing to be competitive or price gauging and the manufacturers are enabling/encouraging it!?!?!!!

To summarize, I've stopped buying Bauer/Mission, Easton and Reebok/CCM products because it simply doesn't make sense to anymore. They're too expensive here in Australia and the price difference between the competing brands overseas vs those brands in Australia is too high.

Why won't Bauer/Mission, Easton (and as of recently) Reebok/CCM allow the big US/CA hockey stores post their products to Australia?

What do you think?

Here's some proof for what I've said is true. Southern Stars ice hockey Australia website

[Shayzam 0]

From what I understand here in North America the companies are regulating the sale of products and shipping across borders ect. to protect dealers in a particular regions. For example to protect the Canadian market and small shops they disallow for an American company to ship to the possible buyers in Canada. In return for protecting the market however price limitations and other rules are set I believe, which is something that clearly is not in place down there. There is third party shipment methods you can use however to bypass these rules, I believe one can possibly even be found on hockeymonkey.

Note* this is what i was told last yet while working some deals

[alex8337 0]

I was charged $500 for postage ($300 more than USPS equivalent international postage) through the hockey-monkey recommended 'BongoUS' postage forwarding so called service.

Clearly there are not the same protection rules here in Australia, leading to price gauging.

[Chadd 916]

Bauer, Easton and CCM all have distributors that handle equipment sales for Australia. Those distributors add in profit for themselves before selling it to the stores in Australia. The stores are not price gouging, they are simply trying to make a profit on the products they carry, as they pay far more for the product than someone like Monkey. If a shop is matching US prices on products, they are going to make pretty close to zero profit on the item. That's not a good way to stay in business for long. I am not familiar with the agreements between those companies and the Australian distributor, but in my experience with other companies, the distributor must purchase a very large amount of product to get those rights.

[alex8337 0]

So you're saying in order for the store to make a profit, my Bauer RX60's should have been $999 instead of the $750 price match?

[Chadd 916]

Most retail stores need at least a 30% margin to break even and most shoot for 40%. That 25% discount ate up a huge chunk of their profit.

[bwhinnen 1]

I buy a few things from the US and most things here in Australia. I have a great relationship with the LHS here and will more than often pay the little bit extra (compared to the US pricing) to help keep him in business. I do have a US mailing address from a forwarding company that I use for those items from the Monkey or Warehouse that are not to be shipped outside of the US/CA and shipping is pretty competitive, nothing like the $500 mentioned from Bongo ...

One thing that most people do realise in Australia is that a) we pay more just because we are Australian, and b) we have a smaller market, this is very important when you consider what a niche sport Ice Hockey is here in Australia.

While we do not have import duties on these items there is of course the ever present GST, and Australian distributors _must_ add this to the costs of the items, so in reality the items should be costing roughly 10% more than it does in the US (given roughly parity exchange rates). In some cases the LHS will give us pricing almost on par with the US on certain high volume items, these are generally the top of the line in specific brands such as Bauer and Easton. Reebok is from all accounts a pain in the proverbial to deal with and they do not discount to the local distributors like Bauer or Easton.

An example is the latest model sticks (and this has not been the norm in the past, it is a new thing that has begun part way through this year, remembering that _most_ stores go through the one distributor):

Bauer Vapor APX, Bauer Nexus 1000, Easton RS, Easton Mako, these all retail for around the $259 mark in the majority of Australian stores and further discounts can be had at your LHS,

Some skates:

Bauer Supreme TotalOne NXG, Bauer Vapor APX retail for $799, this includes heat moulding and sharpening, once again you can probably get a deal from your LHS.

The items that tend to be more expensive are those lower-mid items, such as the Vapor X2.0 or X3.0 or Supreme One.4 / One.5 or Easton 55S etc or the older kit where no major discounts were received at the distributor from the manufacturer. The number one thing to know when dealing with most LHS in Australia is to ask for the best price and to converse with the owners / sales staff, letting them know you understand why they can't give you the prices you see on the US websites, form a relationship with them. They know the problems and they will try to work with you to get pricing that is as competitive as possible, but we as consumers must also know that not all models come into the country as some just won't sell and that there is less margin to play with on the cheaper items. However one thing that they cannot compete with is clearance or closeout items, the big stores in the US can afford to make a loss on them given the overall turnover they make just to get rid of stock, the Australian shops cannot do this, so we still end up paying more for the older stock than the US. This is not an unusual thing, just business and with the smaller market in Australia not much that can be done and keep afloat, but deals can still be made.

Personally I buy all my skates here as the price is generally very competitive and I know I am getting the right fit. I also purchased my hockey pants here and they only cost a mere 15 - 20% more than the US price, which I know I would have eaten up with shipping from the US. I will more than likely buy my next shin pads, shoulder pads from here as well, elbow pads will be different as I want Reebok 9Ks and they are as rare as hens teeth in Australia.

So are they really gouging us? In my opinion no, as they do not have full control over the prices they get the gear at, this is changing and has done so dramatically over the past 8 - 10 months. The local stores here in Australia are trying to work with the distributor to get the best possible pricing so they can compete with the US markets, but it will take time. Are the manufacturers being cruel to us Australians on purpose? No they are trying to protect their distributors here in Australia by restricting the market the major players in the US can ship to.

But in saying that I will freely admit that some 'smaller' retailers are still trying to make a large profit on items I know they are receiving at discounted rates from the distributor. I can honestly say though that the LHS (SB) I deal with here in Brisbane is top notch and are not only great guys on a personal level but bend over backwards for their customers whether they know them personally or not.

[bnr032 11]

the bauer/easton topic is basically because of a company i think called Addlon trading (spelling maybe wrong) they have the import rights for australia.. nationally.. this is the company who sell to the australian LHS.

Unfortunatly basicaly economics means they want to make money, so does your LHS... and obviously bauer/easton want to make there slice of the pie...

I beleive in the US, hockeymonkey etc buy direct from bauer/easton so that cuts out one portion of the pie.

With CCM back in the day Skatebiz in brisbane i beleive were an official dealer, but they in recent times dont have alot of stock from what ive heard.

But back to generalisations. With hockey products, in general there isnt the same turnover on products the US stores have over here. So they need to make more dollars per sale to cover costs of the operation (rent, staff etc) therefor per item the profit % is higher.

I do feel that some stores do price hike enormously. and that is why i import my stuff.. but also because the only LHS deals with bauer or easton, my feet dont fit either skates. and when i used to play i was happy with ccm gear, so buy new ccm stuff.

Me and a mate were contemplating doing an online hockey store for australian customers... But to keep prices down compareable with US sold stuff. we would have to bulk order so much stock and have so much money tied up in inventory it was theoritcally never going to make money.

[alex8337 0]

bwhinnen- I bluntly resent you're well known assumption that 'Australians pay more' simply because we are are in Australia. We pay more because we accept higher prices without question. The fact that our grocery prices are 30% higher than the GDP average is a amazingly obvious example of that. We let Woolworths and Coles have a 75% market share, compared to the UK's two largest grocery retailers with 48% and US's two largest grocery retailers a mere 20%.

We (you and I) are the consumer, the people that drive these companies. By enabling them to drive down competition (US/CA vs AU), then you are simply letting them take advantage of you.

We have the highest Grocery, electricity, internet and fuel prices in the western world. Explain to me why I should not have a problem with the higher prices we pay for hockey equipment.

Both of you are saying that because Australia doesn't have the same population as America (meaning a difference in demand) that we must pay more? The products are made in the US/CA, we should be paying the difference in postage and on a large scale, not an individual postage price scale. The prices (US/CA vs AU) should be comparable, not wildly different.

10% GST with the cost of shipping a retailers bulk order internationally I would be willing to accept... but this is well beyond that and you know it

[jimmy 194]

There is a lot more that has to be added to price of product, import fees (most countries have them, especially fo any product with Chinese material, which is in most hockey equipment). I don't know what the business taxes are in AU , but some countries are also "socialized" or partly socialized, and they have high taxes and fees and expenses fund social programs and gov't pet projects, and to punish importers of non-domestic goods. For example, pre-NAFTA, I use to purchase a great under garment called Puckskin and could sell it at a profit and decent price. It was made in Canada, with Chinese threads. After NAFTA, the price doubled will all the duties and fees and I had to stop selling them because the retail price would have been over $100.

Also, in AU I would think it's likely the small market. Imagine the risk a distributer/retailer takes stocking a model with a very small customer base. I'd be willing to bet the prices are high to cover the massive losses incurred when a product is suceeded by the next yrs model.

[troy 12]

Would Australians be willing to sacrifice all their LHS to buy equipment at standard retail prices online?

[Chadd 916]

Would Australians be willing to sacrifice all their LHS to buy equipment at standard retail prices online?

Some would, just like here in the US or canada.

[troy 12]

I wonder if the companies that do not ship to Australia have determined they would make more money with this distribution setup.

[bwhinnen 1]

bwhinnen- I bluntly resent you're well known assumption that 'Australians pay more' simply because we are are in Australia. We pay more because we accept higher prices without question. The fact that our grocery prices are 30% higher than the GDP average is a amazingly obvious example of that. We let Woolworths and Coles have a 75% market share, compared to the UK's two largest grocery retailers with 48% and US's two largest grocery retailers a mere 20%.

We (you and I) are the consumer, the people that drive these companies. By enabling them to drive down competition (US/CA vs AU), then you are simply letting them take advantage of you.

We have the highest Grocery, electricity, internet and fuel prices in the western world. Explain to me why I should not have a problem with the higher prices we pay for hockey equipment.

Both of you are saying that because Australia doesn't have the same population as America (meaning a difference in demand) that we must pay more? The products are made in the US/CA, we should be paying the difference in postage and on a large scale, not an individual postage price scale. The prices (US/CA vs AU) should be comparable, not wildly different.

10% GST with the cost of shipping a retailers bulk order internationally I would be willing to accept... but this is well beyond that and you know it

You have obviously missed the tongue in cheek comment ... I should have put a <sarcasm></sarcasm> tag set around that comment. Given some of the investigations by the ACCC recently over pricing of goods in Australia I made the assumption that a fellow Aussie would get that as a joke. Sorry.

I've had this discussion with many friends, many times in fact. Most goods are made in the Asian countries, where shipping to the US and Australia is roughly the same costs, even taking into consideration our lower volumes, so you would think we should not get the "It costs more to ship it here" story, but we still do. Australian consumers unfortunately are Australian and I hate to say it and sound un-patriotic but we have begun to turn into a mob of sheep, we are far too accepting of the pricing we are set, we just shrug our shoulders and say "that is the way it is and there is nothing we can do about it". Don't get me started on the big grocery stores, pushing out other brands to make way for their own "home" or "select" brand of goods ... There is something we can do, and that is stop being so damned lazy and accepting, but I digress into the general state of disarray that is our pricing structure, which is where my "Australians pay more because we are Australian" comment came from in the first place.

Americans often wonder why we Australians love to visit their country, even when our dollar is only worth 75 US cents, and you've hit the proverbial nail on the head, we are used to paying more for our general goods and cost of living so the comparative pricing in the US is so much cheaper. So I am not disagreeing with you there.

Hockey gear unfortunately is not akin to whitegoods or browngoods or other items, it is a very niche market and we have limited importers. Due to the previous "gouging" we saw with pricing (and I don't disagree that it was that way) we were forced to buy from overseas, which obviously exacerbates the problem at hand. I will re-iterate that this is changing, it is happening slowly and there are many LHS owners that are trying to make a difference, and for us "newbies" in the sport having an LHS that knows their business is essential.

My first pair of skates that I purchased last year even with a 25% discount still paid twice what they cost in the US and they were a current model. My current pair of skates I paid around $40 more than it would have cost me in the US, and they were on sale in the US. It is changing, slowly, by getting the relationship with the LHS and giving them support when they do bring their price down within a respectable margin compared to the US pricing (factoring in shipping and GST) we help their cause with their importer / distributor.

Now I previously mentioned I have a US forwarding service, it costs me $60 a year to setup, and I can have them hold my items for up to 30 days before I get things consolidated and forwarded to me (via DHL). The goods arrive within 2 - 4 days after shipping out of Florida. The cost of shipping is actually very reasonable, I would say to get all of your hockey kit (mentioned above) posted would be around $150 - $200 US. The issue there is do I forsake the LHS and just order everything from the US and be done with it, my wallet says yes, but my brain says no, everyone needs a LHS. So I mix and match on things, some things I buy OS, some I buy here.

Yes I do understand your frustrations, I really do, but things are getting better, at least here in Brisbane they are, slowly but surely we are seeing a change. When it extends to the lower to middle tier of equipment I'll be a very happy camper as I don't want to _have_ to buy the top of the line stuff because it is cheaper comparatively ... It would be nice if all of us (and there aren't that many to coordinate) Australian hockey players could petition the manufacturers to give decent pricing to the local importer / distributor to allow for better pricing.

[bnr032 11]

I would also like to note there is one LHS over here, that has sold my buddy a set of skates the same as myn.

He literally ordered them from Hockeymonkey, charged my buddy the same price, then whacked on $100 to bake them, sharpen them, and cover the warranty locally. He is an authorized dealer and has a deal to get it from hockeymonkey.

In Regards to the post re australians would forgo the LHS for the sake of only having online but cheaper. I beleive yes as for the most part people are doing that. In Queensland(an entire state for you US folk) there is from what i know of only 3 LHS that are not attached to a rink.

The rink LHS are minimally stocked, nor do they have staff on any sort of fulltime basis (if you need something rink employee will come from cafe etc) by no means do you have anything remotely close to an expert 80% of the time.

Its one thing to say support your LHS, as you US guys do.. but would you do it if the price difference was so great, i doubt it. Sure if it meant 10-20% mark up thats one thing, but in reality the mark up is far greater.

[BucksAway 16]

This is a huge price difference between all products but the good thing is those prices are dropping and they are dropping quickly. Bauer/Easter/CCM/RBK are losing market share by doing this and its forcing them to drop there prices for sure. If i was able to purchase these branded products for an extra 10-15% at my LHS i would but the fact is we cant. It sucks but that is the way its going, people are able to use forwarding companies and it still works out a hell of a lot cheaper then buying locally. It isn't there fault there prices are so high but there is nothing that can be done, until something is done I will continue to buy online.

While RBK etc are now also stopping postage people are just going to move onto other companies such as warrior, eagle, tour etc These companies are going to lose out in the end but cutting off supply to an entire country where they can just move onto another company with the click of a mouse. The only bad thing for Australians with this is the skates issue. Obviously the best 4 skate manufacturers are cutting us off, but these other brands make the same quality if not better, helmets, sticks, gloves, and all other protective gear

Example.

I purchased some RX60 skates. $450 online or $999 locally, i know which one 99.9% of people are going to chose.

I would like to see LHS binding together and just placing a massive order every month for its players and slapping on a small fee for there time, have seen LHS ordering in Easton and Bauer but then the stock sitting there for ever because the price is still to high after 2 years, Order what the customers want at the time and just do it every few months, they still make money and customers are happy.

Until i see something that will benefit me i will continue to buy online and so will a lot of other people. All you need is 3 people to make an order combined, split the shipping costs and you save 100's of $$$

[alex8337 0]

This is a huge price difference between all products but the good thing is those prices are dropping and they are dropping quickly. Bauer/Easter/CCM/RBK are losing market share by doing this and its forcing them to drop there prices for sure. If i was able to purchase these branded products for an extra 10-15% at my LHS i would but the fact is we cant. It sucks but that is the way its going, people are able to use forwarding companies and it still works out a hell of a lot cheaper then buying locally. It isn't there fault there prices are so high but there is nothing that can be done, until something is done I will continue to buy online.

While RBK etc are now also stopping postage people are just going to move onto other companies such as warrior, eagle, tour etc These companies are going to lose out in the end but cutting off supply to an entire country where they can just move onto another company with the click of a mouse. The only bad thing for Australians with this is the skates issue. Obviously the best 4 skate manufacturers are cutting us off, but these other brands make the same quality if not better, helmets, sticks, gloves, and all other protective gear

Example.

I purchased some RX60 skates. $450 online or $999 locally, i know which one 99.9% of people are going to chose.

I would like to see LHS binding together and just placing a massive order every month for its players and slapping on a small fee for there time, have seen LHS ordering in Easton and Bauer but then the stock sitting there for ever because the price is still to high after 2 years, Order what the customers want at the time and just do it every few months, they still make money and customers are happy.

Until i see something that will benefit me i will continue to buy online and so will a lot of other people. All you need is 3 people to make an order combined, split the shipping costs and you save 100's of $$$

The LHS in melbourne (I live in Armidale NSW) where retailing RX60's at the time for $999. I called them up and asked them to price match the American stores ($599).

They did price match but they would only agree to match the price with postage included ($150 for US to AU). So I got them for $750, only because I wanted them in 3 days rather than 3 weeks. There was no other incentive to buy from an Australian retailer other than the postage time. The average person probably wouldn't have tried to price match either... A $250 mark up in insane

[BucksAway 16]

$150 for shipping - BULLSHIT -

3 Weeks :? - Every time i have purchased from hockey monkey and inline warehouse it only took 3-5 days

[tekst 0]

Ive been waiting months and months for my local LHS here in melbourne to get in a pair of supreme one.8s. Ended up contacting the distributor and was told another 6 weeks and even then its not a definit. After I'd been told theyll be in stock in a few weeks, next month, next week etc I finally gave up on the idea of supporting the local and bought off ebay as my old reeboks were literally falling apart. I have no idea if the bauers will fit properly or how they'll work out in the long run, time will tell..

[alex8337 0]

$150 for shipping - BULLSHIT -

3 Weeks :? - Every time i have purchased from hockey monkey and inline warehouse it only took 3-5 days

Do you live in the US?

I've made 4 purchases from inline warehouse and hockey monkey, most have taken 3 weeks, some only 2.

Ive been waiting months and months for my local LHS here in melbourne to get in a pair of supreme one.8s. Ended up contacting the distributor and was told another 6 weeks and even then its not a definit. After I'd been told theyll be in stock in a few weeks, next month, next week etc I finally gave up on the idea of supporting the local and bought off ebay as my old reeboks were literally falling apart. I have no idea if the bauers will fit properly or how they'll work out in the long run, time will tell..

waiting months for a LHS and Australian distributor when you can purchase it cheaper overseas and only wait 2-3 weeks. hmmm... there's not much of a 'supporting' argument for the Australian hockey stores is there...

[BucksAway 16]

no I live in Australia!!

I purchased me entire gear and got it shipped for about $130 , so $150 for just a pair of skates is nothing but a rort

Inline/Icewarehouse generally takes a week where as hockeymonkey seriously only takes 3 days, hockeymonkey been ordered from multiple times!!

[fatwabbit 93]

I would also like to note there is one LHS over here, that has sold my buddy a set of skates the same as myn.

He literally ordered them from Hockeymonkey, charged my buddy the same price, then whacked on $100 to bake them, sharpen them, and cover the warranty locally. He is an authorized dealer and has a deal to get it from hockeymonkey.

In Regards to the post re australians would forgo the LHS for the sake of only having online but cheaper. I beleive yes as for the most part people are doing that. In Queensland(an entire state for you US folk) there is from what i know of only 3 LHS that are not attached to a rink.

The rink LHS are minimally stocked, nor do they have staff on any sort of fulltime basis (if you need something rink employee will come from cafe etc) by no means do you have anything remotely close to an expert 80% of the time.

Its one thing to say support your LHS, as you US guys do.. but would you do it if the price difference was so great, i doubt it. Sure if it meant 10-20% mark up thats one thing, but in reality the mark up is far greater.

Agree... I went to the LHS and found out I have more gear in my garage than the LHS

[thorbs 2]

Contact Joey Hughes, he's located in Melbourne, his store is called Next Level Hockey. Usually has very competitive prices compared to HM, and they have a FB page (don't know if they have their own website atm.

The Icehouse in Melbourne has also lowered prices so top-end sticks are about $260. That's no worse than a lot of stores in Canada after sales tax, as far as I know.

I'm a Canadian who plays in Australia, and you're complaining about the price of hockey gear when EVERYTHING is more expensive in Australia. Look around a bit and you can find deals...people here are always after the newest gear and are always selling their old stuff.

[BucksAway 16]

Your right everything is more expensive in Australia and even where everything is cheap like in the states, even the US citizens are turning to online stores, This post is in regards to almost every product in Australia.

I understand they have to pay import taxes, shipping isn't cheap etc etc but all these stores are making record profits ( maybe not to much LHS in AUS ) and still complaining about how there losing so much money to to online shoppers. Just goes to show there all greedy bastards and overcharging us a shit load to begin with, a lot of the stuff you can find for a hell of a lot cheaper online and that's why us Australians shop online so much, tired of been ripped off. Few examples from completely different products

S3 from Kogan $539 - DSE - $750

Levi Jeans Online $50 - Store in Aus - $120

Armani Code Cologne $ 55 - Myer - $115

This list could go on FOREVER

These companies cutting us off are going to lose in the long run, we are not going to buy local because of such large markups and where not going to just not have our favourite brands because of restrictions, we will either just buy another brand or use forwarding services or friends, I refuse to pay any more then 50% of a markup on LOW cost products just because there from a local store, when you start getting into the 1000's for products in Australia something as small as a 50% markup on something small is HUGE on larger ticket items, Skates are a great example of that

[bnr032 11]

sorry to revive an old thread.

I wont name the company but it was a large online hockey company in the US,

I have ordered from them before 6 sticks, was charged $100 for postage, i thought thats a bit high, but total price still ends up way under anything local.

So this time me and a friend placed an order for 5 sticks, 2 practice jerseys, a compression jock and enquire about a bag (this company limits the brands they will post)

They said with the bag postage alone would be $680.

So i asked ok without the bag? they replied $320

To which i explained what i had ordered before and the box could fit the jerseys/cup.

They said no it wouldnt requires 2nd box. In the end we ended up just saying send us the sticks. First email, $120 for postage i said ok process order, Then they get back to me and say oh wait we got the postage down to $40..

WTF PEOPLE!!!! this company lost the sale of everything else. and im starting to loose patience with them. Once my gear finally arrives i will email there head office enquirying as to a please explain.

Whilst i am happy for the discount. why did i have to wait 1.5 weeks from back and forth contact before order placed.

/rant