Spinner vs Standard Dressing

[aal517 0]

I was wondering what people's experiences have been with using both the BS spinner and the standard single diamond pencil dressers that are on most machines. I have a Wissota home skate sharpener and recently I had a friend of mine machine an adapter for my skate holder to hold spinners so I could do FBV on it. I have noticed that when using the single diamond dresser, I can get a mirrrored finish on the bottom of my blade. Yet when I use the spinner, it creates almost grain marks running from heel to toe on my blade. Nothing is changing except for how I dress the wheel. Anyone else experience similar results?

[AfftonDad 88]

My spinners do that as well. I'm no expert but I would expect it when you think about how it works. Any slight micro imperfections in the depth of the spinner will produce micro imperfctions that will go entirely around the wheel. This will of course produce a slight imperfection that runs the length of the blade. Since a traditional ROH dressing is truly a "single point" on a radial arm, these imperfections won't exist in diamond point dresser case. I think performance impacts would be negligible.

[Chadd 916]

I have no problem getting a mirror finish on my X02 with a spinner.

[AfftonDad 88]

I have no problem getting a mirror finish on my X02 with a spinner.

It's generally pretty "mirror-like" on mine as well. However, if there is a tiny particle (let's say one of the diamond particles sticks up slightly more than the others) it is going to imprint itself as a microscopic groove all the way around the wheel (because the spinner is spinning at a different rate than the wheel, it will eventually be uniformly imprinted all the way around the wheel). This causes there to be a single long "grain" that runs the length of the blade (everywhere else it is "mirror-like"). I actually like examining them because they are a good (additional) sanity check on edge eveness (the grain will be perfectly aligned to the blade when even). The spinner by design dresses horizontally whereas the single point dresser dresses horizontally and vertically.

[Chadd 916]

I clean my spinners regularly with a wire brush and I get a much better finish than any of the local shops do with their single point systems. I have half a dozen different spinners that I use (three more than the others) and have never had the problems that you describe.

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

It's generally pretty "mirror-like" on mine as well. However, if there is a tiny particle (let's say one of the diamond particles sticks up slightly more than the others) it is going to imprint itself as a microscopic groove all the way around the wheel (because the spinner is spinning at a different rate than the wheel, it will eventually be uniformly imprinted all the way around the wheel). This causes there to be a single long "grain" that runs the length of the blade (everywhere else it is "mirror-like"). I actually like examining them because they are a good (additional) sanity check on edge eveness (the grain will be perfectly aligned to the blade when even). The spinner by design dresses horizontally whereas the single point dresser dresses horizontally and vertically.

What wheel are you using?

[jimmy 194]

My spinners do that as well. I'm no expert but I would expect it when you think about how it works. Any slight micro imperfections in the depth of the spinner will produce micro imperfctions that will go entirely around the wheel. This will of course produce a slight imperfection that runs the length of the blade. Since a traditional ROH dressing is truly a "single point" on a radial arm, these imperfections won't exist in diamond point dresser case. I think performance impacts would be negligible.

Don't get anal over the slight imperfection, it has no effect on the sharpening quality and there is no player on earth that can tell a difference when skating.

[AfftonDad 88]

Don't get anal over the slight imperfection, it has no effect on the sharpening quality and there is no player on earth that can tell a difference when skating.

Wrong guy... I'm the guy that said that performance impact would be negligible. In other words, non-existent... zilch... zippo. There can be swirl marks in the finish of a car that you can see but I would challenge anyone to be able to feel them.

What wheel are you using?

Pink and orange.

I clean my spinners regularly with a wire brush and I get a much better finish than any of the local shops do with their single point systems. I have half a dozen different spinners that I use (three more than the others) and have never had the problems that you describe.

I have cleaned them before but never with a wire brush and not very frequently (only once or twice). And I have never looked afterward to see if it had any effect on the grain situation. That could quite possibly be the source of the lines. However, I believe that the lines are probably sub micron in depth and purely cosmetic. They don't bother me at all. Even lenses, mirrors, silicon wafers, etc. have polishing marks in them after being polished.

[aal517 0]

Sorry guys, I was away for the weekend. But thanks for all the info.

My spinners do that as well. I'm no expert but I would expect it when you think about how it works. Any slight micro imperfections in the depth of the spinner will produce micro imperfctions that will go entirely around the wheel. This will of course produce a slight imperfection that runs the length of the blade. Since a traditional ROH dressing is truly a "single point" on a radial arm, these imperfections won't exist in diamond point dresser case. I think performance impacts would be negligible.

I came up with the same theory that it might just be a few high spots on the spinner that cause the imprints in the blade.

What wheel are you using?

I was using a 1/2 radius BS spinner but I was using it on my Wissota 7" pink grinding wheel. I got tired of messing with the single arm dresser to change the ROH so I thought the spinners would be a whole lot easier and more consistent on the radius

Don't get anal over the slight imperfection, it has no effect on the sharpening quality and there is no player on earth that can tell a difference when skating.

I thought I was going to be able to tell since it was not the completely mirrored finish I am use to skating on but I couldn't. I am assuming you can not notice because the marks are running length-wise unlike chatter marks which go perpendicular to the blade

I clean my spinners regularly with a wire brush and I get a much better finish than any of the local shops do with their single point systems. I have half a dozen different spinners that I use (three more than the others) and have never had the problems that you describe.

I never thought of trying this. I will have to give it shot next time.

Chadd, I am assuming you are using the BS spinners?

[Chadd 916]

I never thought of trying this. I will have to give it shot next time.

Chadd, I am assuming you are using the BS spinners?

Yes, I am using Blackstone spinners. Just make sure that you are gentle with the brush.

[notquitedeadyet 13]

Wissota wheels are slightly thicker than what goes on a full size machine like a Blackstone, maybe that's an issue with the width of the spinner.

That brings up another question; are you using a full size spinner, or an X-series spinner? X-series wheels are super thin.

How substantial is that dresser your friend made for you? Is it possible there is any harmonics or chatter while dressing the wheel?

[aal517 0]

Yea I realized when I went to dress the wheel that the spinner I have is a X-series spinner. When I ordered it I didn't realize that there were different sizes for the width of the spinners.

The holder is machined out of aluminum and is mounted directly in the wissota skate similarly to how you would mount a skate blade. So I don't think there are any vibration issues. The marks on the blade are not chatter marks but grooves running the length of the blade, which agreeing with Affton is probably due to high spots on the spinner.

[jimmy 194]

Yea I realized when I went to dress the wheel that the spinner I have is a X-series spinner. When I ordered it I didn't realize that there were different sizes for the width of the spinners.

The holder is machined out of aluminum and is mounted directly in the wissota skate similarly to how you would mount a skate blade. So I don't think there are any vibration issues. The marks on the blade are not chatter marks but grooves running the length of the blade, which agreeing with Affton is probably due to high spots on the spinner.

Those horizontal grooves do not happen on all type/models of steel, only some.

[aal517 0]

jimmy, any examples of which blades show them and which don't

they showed up on my grafs when i sharpened them

[aal517 0]

Update: So this weekend I borrowed an old 7/16 spinner from one of my friends to try. I also just got my FBV spinner in so i tried that spinner also. As a comparison I took some old LSII steel I had and sharpened a third with new FBV spinner, the second third with the old 7/16 ROH, and the final third with the wissota single point diamond. The old 7/16 spinner worked extremely well and gave a very similar mirrored finish as the wissota but the FBV produced some large horizontal grooves (worse than the 1/2 radius spinner that i originally tried). Makes me wonder if the spinners get better the more you use them (the high spots on the spinners that create the horizontal lines get worn down) or is the quality of the new spinners not as good?

[LakeshoreHockeyArenaWNY 2]

we use a blackstone turbo triple head machine at our rink, with one finishing head being the spinner system, and the other is a traditional arm dresser.

as beautiful as the spinner system is, there can still be user error. i get great finishes out of my spinners by lightly dressing a few times and on the final one keeping the spinner juuuuust touching the wheel and hold it there till it's done finely dressing the wheel. that little last part is really what i think cleans up the wheel to be as close to the spinner as possible. i'd say its easier to screw up dressing with the arm, especially if its a bit worn and there is any play in it. (or idiots jam the diamond into the wheel and burn it up etc etc) also... spinners definitely have a life... some of the new guys go wayyyy too hard with the spinner and wear them out real fast. the beauty is you can just touch it up mid sharpen.

95% of our sharpenings are ROH anyway, but obviously we got that so we can do FBV. we're the only shop in Rochester that can do FBV and we dont get terribly too many requests. i didnt think i'd like the blackstone coming from my previous rinks blademaster, but its quite a good machine. a lot more dusty than the blademaster, too.

[Chadd 916]

You make a great point about the finishing pass being critical to the final product. If I was skating on blades without doing a finishing pass, I would certainly feel the difference.