"I hate sharp skates!"; ignorance or victim of a hack sharpener?

[bunnyman666 445]

It makes me cringe when I hear that statement. I know better, and I have only been back on skates since September. If I were a better skater at this point, I could argue eloquently why that is a silly statement, and all they need is a competent sharpener to change their mind. Their game would be even better.

Judging by the comments of those who "hate sharp skates", I suspect these skaters had blades sharpened in waaaaaaaay too deep of a hollow, took off waaaaaaay too much metal, and probably the wheel never was dressed. I am very, very lucky to have not one, not two, but THREE competent sharpeners at my local rink. Never had a bad sharpening YET from those guys. The guy that sharpened my new steel, not so much; but that was at a different location. My local rink have a Blackstone machine that does both conventional and FBV. And the guys I play pick up with have access to those three guys!!!

Back when I was an excellent skater and better player, I had learnt about the different hollows, and that I definitely needed nothing deeper than 1/2". Much shallower gave zero bite (except on super soft ice), much deeper and I couldn't glide. I have always touched up my edges every 4-6 hours of ice time, and have not deviated from that schedule.

Hopefully these guys will keep letting their edges get blunter and blunter while I get better. I may even finally outstep the danglers by summer!!!

[salibandy 21]

I know what you mean; I get terribly annoyed when I hear how people tell me how my skates are too blunt, and that I should go for something like a 3/8ths. Ironically, these are the people who are not immediately comfortable when they get their skates sharpened, needing one or two games before that happens - a tell-tale sign that their skates are way too deep. Some of them also always rub their blades on the plastic bits of the bench or doors to make them feel less sharp.

I like to tell them: firstly, blunt, sharp, deep and shallow are not synonymous. You can have a sharp and shallow sharpening like mine, or a deep and blunt one like yours. There is probably little difference in glide between mine and yours, but I'm sure I can corner harder and tighter on my sharpening than you can on yours.

Unfortunately, the people here can be quite an ignorant bunch. No amount of talking will convince them otherwise. A skate must be super stiff otherwise you'll break your ankles, your stick must be this curve or this stiff because it's the best, and you can't touch anyone in hockey because it's a non-contact league. Regarding that last comment, sometimes I feel that netball is more physical than the hockey we play here. Angling becomes checking, stick checking becomes slashing, but hooks and trips go uncalled.

[bunnyman666 445]

Unfortunately, the people here can be quite an ignorant bunch. No amount of talking will convince them otherwise. A skate must be super stiff otherwise you'll break your ankles, your stick must be this curve or this stiff because it's the best, and you can't touch anyone in hockey because it's a non-contact league. Regarding that last comment, sometimes I feel that netball is more physical than the hockey we play here. Angling becomes checking, stick checking becomes slashing, but hooks and trips go uncalled.

I am certain you mean in your locale, right?

@sailbandy-

And getting back to your point, it seems that some let a bad experience and no experimentation colour their opinions.

For example- I would have never thought in 100 years that a piece of Spandex on my head would eliminate sweat rolling into my eyes between shifts. Heeding one's suggestion has made it 150% better for me and the sweat management!!!

[joshy207 15]

People who "hate sharp skates" would benefit from a shallower hollow. Working in a shop part-time again, I'm amazed at how many people have NO IDEA that you can sharpen skates differently. I used to hear "don't make them too sharp!" a lot, but not so much these days.

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Working in a shop palace with the best boss ever part-time again

Love,

Nino

[joshy207 15]

Am I my brother's keeper? Yes, I am.

Love,

G-Money

[salibandy 21]

I am certain you mean in your locale, right?

@sailbandy-

And getting back to your point, it seems that some let a bad experience and no experimentation colour their opinions.

For example- I would have never thought in 100 years that a piece of Spandex on my head would eliminate sweat rolling into my eyes between shifts. Heeding one's suggestion has made it 150% better for me and the sweat management!!!

Yeah, here meaning where I play.

Preconceived notions can be hard to change. What's bad is that here (my locale), they start with the source. The sharpener for our hockey club gives a standard 3/8ths sharpening to everyone, big, small, light or heavy. The owner of the only hockey store here once said to me that all Bauer helmets fit the same because fit only changes between brands. He sells equipment saying things like Vapors fit better in the heel because of the V shape and Supreme fits loosely in the heel.

[bunnyman666 445]

Yeah, here meaning where I play.

Preconceived notions can be hard to change. What's bad is that here (my locale), they start with the source. The sharpener for our hockey club gives a standard 3/8ths sharpening to everyone, big, small, light or heavy. The owner of the only hockey store here once said to me that all Bauer helmets fit the same because fit only changes between brands. He sells equipment saying things like Vapors fit better in the heel because of the V shape and Supreme fits loosely in the heel.

I knew that you had meant with your locale. I don't know everyone on this forum yet, and while I haven't seen any over-sensitive types here, I didn't want anyone to derail the thread with "waddaya mean that we're ignorant?!?!?" or other silliness. I knew we had adults on this forum; Yay, forum!!!!

Wow, the owner kinda is giving a LOT of misinformation. This is how the small shoppe ends up having old inventory and losing business by the truckload!!! The internet, whilst giving a lot of bad information is a FONT of good information, especially with a well-informed forum like this one. And refusing to listen to others compounds the problem. Ugh...

[salibandy 21]

I knew that you had meant with your locale. I don't know everyone on this forum yet, and while I haven't seen any over-sensitive types here, I didn't want anyone to derail the thread with "waddaya mean that we're ignorant?!?!?" or other silliness. I knew we had adults on this forum; Yay, forum!!!!

Wow, the owner kinda is giving a LOT of misinformation. This is how the small shoppe ends up having old inventory and losing business by the truckload!!! The internet, whilst giving a lot of bad information is a FONT of good information, especially with a well-informed forum like this one. And refusing to listen to others compounds the problem. Ugh...

You're spot on - he ends up having tons of unsold stock every season that he has to blow out. It doesn't help that his attitude isn't the best; he seems to care more about the one-time big purchase than repeat business. While a LHS here would help sustain the scene, the kind of business he runs seems to be doing more harm than good. I've always advocated supporting the local scene and telling the guys not to buy online and shipping things over, but this store isn't really doing anything to help itself.

But back to the original question - in my case, it seems like it goes both ways. The sharpeners are ignorant, and so are the players. I've had four different sharpeners here sharpen my blades during the short time I've been playing hockey, and I'm considering investing in a couple pairs of BlackEdge runners to send halfway across the world to Bob at No Icing every couple months. Bob's sharpening made me a better skater almost overnight; the forward pitch he recommended me was the best thing forward for my skating.

[bunnyman666 445]

You're spot on - he ends up having tons of unsold stock every season that he has to blow out. It doesn't help that his attitude isn't the best; he seems to care more about the one-time big purchase than repeat business. While a LHS here would help sustain the scene, the kind of business he runs seems to be doing more harm than good. I've always advocated supporting the local scene and telling the guys not to buy online and shipping things over, but this store isn't really doing anything to help itself.

But back to the original question - in my case, it seems like it goes both ways. The sharpeners are ignorant, and so are the players. I've had four different sharpeners here sharpen my blades during the short time I've been playing hockey, and I'm considering investing in a couple pairs of BlackEdge runners to send halfway across the world to Bob at No Icing every couple months. Bob's sharpening made me a better skater almost overnight; the forward pitch he recommended me was the best thing forward for my skating.

Ignorant shoppe owners make me crazy!!!! I remember one having the nerve to tell me how stupid customers are!!! Gee, why are you sitting on $30k of dead stock?

I guess there are a few people who don't know about the inter net? There is no excuse for ignorance; information is plentiful thanks to the inter net.

[steelnation248 101]

Am I my brother's keeper? Yes, I am.

Love,

G-Money

I thought you were "Captain Duck"?

[SBRH1 1]

Skate sharpeners aren't necessarily ignorant. Yes, I will agree there are some terrible, ignorant, etc skate sharpeners. But 90% of the time I ask someone what hollow or how they want their skates sharpened they look at me like I'm crazy...then when I try to explain they say just make them sharp. That's why some don't bother asking, 1/2" is usually the standard for regular skates. Those who know how they want their skates sharpened should say it, or write it on the bottom of their skates.

When you say sharpness you are referring to edges, not hollow, as you stated already. I sharpen my own skates (goalie) at 5/8". It is the perfect hollow to for me. However, I don't like my edges too sharp because it hinders side to side movement. So I will usually scrape my skates against the plastic on the bench a couple times, does the trick. I'd consider myself a better than average skater and goalie, sharp edges catch too much.

[bunnyman666 445]

@Ray521-

I would go so far to say that 3/5 of skate sharpeners are not ignorant. 3/4 I have dealt with were AWESOME!!! The last skate "tech" mangled my old, perfectly serviceable holder and didn't do a good job with my new holders, but the blokes from my local rink have been GOLDEN.

If anything, Ray- there are fewer bad apples in the pro shoppe than back in the old days. If someone doesn't respond to when I say 1/2" flat bottom v", I jerk my skates away from them. But I have to say that I have had fewer crappy shapenings than good ones this year.

I still think the "I hate sharp skates" crowd are older guys who had their skates sharpened by an antiquated machine done by a less than competent sharpener.

I am certain that if you were my choice, you would do great unless I was playing against you in a tournament ( just kidding).

[joshy207 15]

I thought you were "Captain Duck"?

I got promoted!

[Wolfpack_1986 146]

Outside of the obvious semantics, what's wrong with not liking deep hollows? 1/2 may be perfect for you, but its not for me...

I guess I don't understand what you're getting at in this thread.

[salibandy 21]

Outside of the obvious semantics, what's wrong with not liking deep hollows? 1/2 may be perfect for you, but its not for me...

I guess I don't understand what you're getting at in this thread.

Deep hollows are fine; I guess we're commenting about the lack of knowledge about sharpenings. What is usually the case when someone says their sharpening is too sharp is that they have a hollow that is too deep for them. Of course, the others who don't complain are the ones that are fine with it. The OP was getting at the cause of this - whether it stemmed from the ignorance of the players or the incompetence of the sharpeners. Unfortunately here where I live, it's both...

[bunnyman666 445]

Deep hollows are fine; I guess we're commenting about the lack of knowledge about sharpenings. What is usually the case when someone says their sharpening is too sharp is that they have a hollow that is too deep for them. Of course, the others who don't complain are the ones that are fine with it. The OP was getting at the cause of this - whether it stemmed from the ignorance of the players or the incompetence of the sharpeners. Unfortunately here where I live, it's both...

@puck_it

sailbandy eloquently stated it- I hear these guys who say they hate sharp skates when I know that they would love a good sharp pair in the correct hollow and EXCELL in their skating. Right now because I am re-learning how to skate after a twenty-plus year absence, I wouldn't be a good salesman on this approach.

I HATED sharp skates until a coach spotted a lot of errors on my skating and asked when the last time I had my skates sharpened. I think the rink i skated in as a lad did one hollow- a full inch!!!! I was led out of the jungle into civilisation when I had learnt about different hollows. I went to a store that was the "official store" of the local NHL team and learnt about that stuff. Heck- most guys at my local rink were AFRAID of the rink sharpener and even skated on brand new, never sharpened blades!!

I would maintain it is a case of one bad experience painting skate sharpening with a very broad brush.

[tarmogoyf 2]

I wasn't a fan of freshly sharpened skates, until I got a different hollow done. I'm a big dude, and I was getting 1/2" done to my skates, which always felt uncomfortably sharp for the first 2 skates. However, one of JR's guys at total hockey suggested 5/8", and that is working like a charm. Experimenting won't hurt.

[Bengerm77 11]

I never had my skates sharpened before (roller guy switching to ice), and threads like this make skate sharpening seem really difficult.

[bunnyman666 445]

I never had my skates sharpened before (roller guy switching to ice), and threads like this make skate sharpening seem really difficult.

The only daunting task is to find your sharpener. Ask the guys you play with. If worse comes to worse, get an extra set of steel and have no icing sports sharpen you steel.

[SirJW 207]

I never had my skates sharpened before (roller guy switching to ice), and threads like this make skate sharpening seem really difficult.

The only daunting task is to find your sharpener. Ask the guys you play with. If worse comes to worse, get an extra set of steel and have no icing sports sharpen you steel.

Find a knowledgeable sharpener and try different hollows each time you skate. I'd imagine you are going out a lot to practice so part of your learning curve once you get the skating down is finding what works for you. Are you lean and fast or slow and lumbering, it depends on what hollow you will prefer.

There are good threads here about hollows and articles on the web. Here are a few.

Also if you are skating on ponds you need to get them sharpened b4 you go back inside, the dirt in the water / ice will dull them much quicker than at the rink.

http://www.thehandofgord.ca/skates-sharpening/maintaining-your-edge

http://www.purehockey.com/guidance-info/hockey-skate-sharpening

http://www.blade-tek.com/theRadius.html

http://itsourice.com/skate-sharpening-101/

[mcne0101 16]

I'm about to get scolded...I'm a pretty competitive player and have played at a high level my whole life. I've been one to say I don't like sharp skates.

I'm 6'5" 230, play competitive men's league now. I get a 5/8" hallow and I probably get my skates sharpened 2-5 times a year depending on if bad luck causes me to lose and edge. I play probably on average 2-3 times a week. A good example is the fact I bought Nike Bauer One95 skates when they first came out and I'm still on the original steel.

After reading this thread I realize I know virtually nothing about skate sharpening/hallows. To people that do, should I try a 3/4" hallow?

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Skate sharpeners aren't necessarily ignorant. Yes, I will agree there are some terrible, ignorant, etc skate sharpeners. But 90% of the time I ask someone what hollow or how they want their skates sharpened they look at me like I'm crazy...then when I try to explain they say just make them sharp. That's why some don't bother asking, 1/2" is usually the standard for regular skates.

It isn't the customer's fault, necessarily. I ask that question every time, and I probably get a 10% return rate on answer (and I'm being generous here.)

The fact is, the vast majority of skaters are ignorant when it comes to their hollow (and I mean ignorant in the nicest way possible, as in they just don't know.) It stems from sharpeners not explaining to them what their options are and what it can do.

I wasn't a fan of freshly sharpened skates, until I got a different hollow done. I'm a big dude, and I was getting 1/2" done to my skates, which always felt uncomfortably sharp for the first 2 skates. However, one of JR's guys at total hockey suggested 5/8", and that is working like a charm. Experimenting won't hurt.

I'm extremely glad to hear this. I have trained ALL of my employees to know hollows and to convey that back to the customer.

[bunnyman666 445]

I tried a 3/8" FBV yesterday and I really, really dug it. I'm 5'8" and around 170#. I usually go 1/2", but the ice has gotten a LOT harder because of the weather.

As far as it goes, mcne0101- What does it hurt to experiment? I'd actually try 1/2" for sh**s and giggles. Do you find yourself rubbing your skates on wood after a sharpening? I'd try a shallower hollow.

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

I'm about to get scolded...I'm a pretty competitive player and have played at a high level my whole life. I've been one to say I don't like sharp skates.

People confuse sharp with depth. I can tell you right now that you're not skating on a hollow that is optimized for you. You should start at a starting point and continue to go up til you feel like it's not enough, then scale it back down.

Once you find that hollow, there will always be an easy transition to it, and no need to "dull" them. Nor should a sharp skate feel "sharp" either; that's just a poor sharpening that you're feeling the burrs from. A good sharpening shouldn't feel that way, it should essentially be surgical.