Skate pain, fitting, and possible New Skates help

[Souldriver 64]

Hey guys,

I kind of went on a hockey hiatus for a little bit but now im back and I need some help. During this past spring i took up playing ice hockey over roller and my skates were/are some easton EQ40s that I purchased for pretty cheap on closeout. In the store and sitting they fit like a comfy warm slipper, even at home i wore them for an hour and they were great, i thought for once i found a skate that was perfect. I played on them about 10 times enough for them to be broken in and playing on them they perform great and i like how they feel.... But a half hour into pickup or practice I get foot pain that will not go away until I take the skate off and let my feet be for a couple of minutes. This didnt bother me too much as i got used to it but now picking up again I am reminded of it and at this point i dont want hockey to be hurting me.

About me: I play 1-2 times a week on low comp teams. im 5'7" 250lbs.

The pain: I dont notice it while skating probably bc im in the moment but once i sit on the bench it starts to come on quick then its hard to deny, it's on the outside of both feet behind the toes and right before arch and when your foot comes to curve in. Its only relieved by taking the skate off or loosening it significantly and i cant stand on my feet for a couple of minutes after. It also at times seems to make foot cramps more easy to come by. Ive had this with many skates and i just figured they were too narrow but being younger i was told its ok if skates hurt a little so i kept playing,

What ive tried: I tried playing through it, figuring the skate would break in more and more but it hasnt happened, even after 2 full bakes. I first tried super feet which i have in most of my skates and i enjoy how they feel but didnt make it better. Then i tried different lacings and lace tightnesses. I tried making it so when i tie around that part of the foot its only tight enough that it takes the slack out, to so that it has some tension, to tighter than i want and it seems the less tension there the better. The only other thing is seeing if that part of the boot can be punched out which im not sure if it can due to where it is in the skate.

Solutions: ??? well, despite not wanting to spend more money, and knowing ill be taking a step back in skate performance by buying a new skate i am looking at other skates. Namely the bauer supreme or nexus line bc they seem to have a multitude of fit styles, and the other known wider fitting skates ccm/reebok never stood up to my use. Im looking at both the supreme 160 and nexus 600 and i was wondering what would be a better skate. It looks like the nexus 600 is a little older but higher end but the nexus line seems to be not as "high tech" and more comfort orientated and im afraid of it falling apart. I know the supreme line fits many well but im afraid now that they seem to be a little more anatomical it may not be for me. Help on how the width fitting is compared to each other could also help a lot. Cost for me is about the same.

For reference:

current skate: Easton eq40 size 8.5ee

Looking at: Supreme 160 (probably a wider width) or Nexus 600 (may not need a wider width in those)

Best fitting skate I have played in to date: Mission AC2 roller skate size 9ee, these fit really well to start with but after some use it feel as if the front of my foot may have a tiny bit of lateral movement. But these skates never hurt out of the initial break in period and they are very very stiff.

I will also be visiting a store to look at how each fit feels but i want to walk in with some knowledge as most of my LHS lack any. though this is hard too as the pain comes with playing not trying things on.

Thanks!

[jonesy9020 77]

The EQ line was known to be pretty narrow, so that could be it. You might give baking one more shot and try standing up for about 30 seconds or so while molding to get more width. As an alternative, get them widened/punched.

But there might be something else going on, because the pain sounds identical to what I had in Mission Pure Flys last year. My pain seemed to be not so much from lack of forefoot width, but from the arch being too high and felt like putting my foot almost at an angle in the boot and pushing the outer edge against the side of the boot. I had the same problems as you. Had to come off the ice, take my foot out of the boot, wiggle it around and walk on it a little, and then try to skate with looser laces. It was a nightmare. Even with looser laces, I couldn't go for more than 15-20 minutes. I can't find the forum, but someone mentioned the pain I was experiencing was perhaps a symptom of neuropathy or nerve damage. You should know that it's pretty much impossibly to bake/punch out the arch of the skate.

I ended up going with a One.7 and even without baking they felt great. Doesn't mean supreme will work for you, but definitely worth a shot. Things to look for when trying them on are how flat your foot feels in the boot and how much you can feel the arch pushing up on the bottom of your foot (you don't want to feel much push at all). The anatomical stuff is marketing BS. They're a mid-width skate and an EE might fit well. If anything, todays Supremes are probably wider than the 3000/4000/5000 etc back in the day.

I don't think you should have any durability concerns with the Nexus. The lack of tech there probably has a bigger impact on weight of the skate than on its durability. Also the new generation seems to be doing pretty well.

Good luck, hope you are in comfortable skates soon!

[Souldriver 64]

I dont think its nerve damage as I had this since I first started skating as a kid and speaking to one of my other friends, who plays a tone of hcokey his whole life at many levels, he says he goes to the local Islanders proshop and tries on their left over pro stock form players until he finds one that works out well for him. it may be the skate is tilting on me but tying it tighter kills it more. Ive baked twice with 30 second standing and thick socks each time, and like i said it feels perfect then and when standing on them after, playing puts some pressure on them.

Im going to try a thinner insole instead of the super feet and try tying them tighter in front and behind the spot when i play on them tomorrow to see how it works out, maybe to give some more room and stop some skate tilting. I do believe i have flat feet, though i havnt tested it lately but high arches never really bothered me in skates. My mission ac2 skates had high arches, to when i put them on i felt them pressing against my arch and though "oh no this may be a hot spot/problem" but i got used to it and it never hurt me. I do think the mission AC series has the bauer supreme or a very similar fit so ill start looking there.

Even though the nexus skates i was looking at are from when they came out in 2012 its good to know they havnt had concernes

A wide width doesnt add any length right? just some width?

[jonesy9020 77]

Whether width change leads to length differences is a subject of long and heated debate on this board. There may be some difference, there may not be, but any differences are insignificant (think maybe 1/12 of a size, if that).

And yeah I hear you with pain since you were a kid. I was the same way. I always just thought it was normal "breaking in" skates. It's not, or at least it doesn't have to be. Even so, I had never had anything like this pain. The toughest part about it is, as you said, they feel great when you try them on in the store and awful after 10 minutes on the ice, so it's super hard to tell.

Good luck finding a fix.

[Souldriver 64]

Jonesy: With the Supreme one.7 skates that you said feel good now did you have to get a wide width (Im assuming you were wearing a normal D width previously) Any drastic change in size?

here are some pics if it helps, do note i didnt wear socks with these just because I was too lazy to put them on but i usually wear a thin hockey sock:

you can see that with my laces pulled tighter than my normal skating tightness there is still some bulge up there These are a 8.5 ee, perfect on length.

The pain on the outside starts right in front of and below the "E" in easton

In comparison the Missions are much straighter laced a little less tight, they dont wrap over perfectly but they arnt bulging. The toes have a tiny bit of side to side movement with or without socks.

The part of my foot that gets sore in the eastons is located between the first and second side vent.

Here it doesnt look like my arches are that flat, but i wont say they are high or truely average. my foot at its widest is 4" across, and about 3" where the pain is.

[jonesy9020 77]

You've got similar arches to mine, not exactly flat, but lower than "average." Your feet also are wider than mine. I've had lacing where the eyelet facing looks wavy like that on other skates, but I can't remember if the Pure Fly did or not -- generally that's a sign of a depth issue. Leaning towards yes that I did have that issue in the Pure Fly. In any case, I don't have it on the Supremes, they're perfectly straight like your missions look.

No drastic change in size -- Went from a 10D in the Mission Pure Fly (Mission had very weird sizing back then) to a 9D in the Supreme. Both had 280mm holders, so effectively same size skates lengthwise.

I don't know exactly how Mission lasted their ice skates, but the Pure Fly skates were pretty darn narrow. If I had to guess, they're lasted similarly to Vapors, possibly even more narrow. A Supreme D is probably about the same as a Pure Fly EE. Put another way, the Pure Fly D I had was probably a Supreme C or B. Basically what I did was bump up roughly one width level.

I've heard the EQ line is pretty narrow, so I'm going to guess roughly that an EQ40 EE width = Supreme D or E.

I'd try on everything from every brand you can, but maybe start with this group of 3: Supreme EE, Nexus D, Nexus EE. I think Nexus depth might really do the trick for you. If you can find last gen Supreme One.7 or One.8 on clearance in your size, I'd give those a shot, because I think a player of your size would benefit from the added lateral support and stiffer outsoles compared to the 160. I think the 600 is a good target for the Nexus line. It might still not do the trick, and it'll certainly piss off the employees, but once you find a skate that you think fits, walk around the store for maybe 10-15 minutes with them on and try to push out as you would while skating. It's a poor substitute for being on ice, but it's the best option you have.

Let us know how it works out!

[Souldriver 64]

yeah I think because of the spot its in its probably not punchable either right? the good news I spent less than $200 on the eq40s but was so confident that the skate woudl eventually fall into place that i did get step steel for them :/ at least it may be a good sell.

[crispy92 14]

If the AC2's work why not try out some supremes. If I'm not mistaken they are based off the same last

[jonesy9020 77]

With the lacing issues and pain, I'm thinking the problem is an overall lack of volume in the boot, rather than being too tight in one particular spot. Punching might work, but probably won't.

[Souldriver 64]

I had an odd day trying skates on. first off no one carries EE sizes around here but thats ok.

I go to my morning pickup skate, feet still hurt. right after i go to their proshop which is the Islanders store and i talk to the guy and he brings me out an older nexus 1000 skate in a 9D, and a new supreme 190 in a 9D, both very stiff skates but im used to it so i dont mind.

The supreme had no chance and it felt like a tight wooden shoe. the nexus was better but i felt it putting a small pressure on my foot around that area but this was just after a hockey pickup session and they were a little tender still. But i could feel the boot was a little softer but the 1000 is the TOP of the lineup so i expect it to be as hard as they come. The guy also suggested the CCMs so i said why not, it was the tacks and they just flet like the supremes and didnt do it for me.

I call another store and go in there they have the new nexus and i try on a new bauer 7000 or 8000 nexus skate in 8.5. Length is perfect and it was just too stuff and i felt the pressure on the side again. For laughs I tried an 8.5 bauer supreme 170 and still nope. then they had the two that were the better fitting skates.

They had a CCM rbz 90 and a older bauer nexus 800 both 8.5D

The CCM felt wide enough on the left foot and i was actually surprised by its roominess, the right foot was a little tight but i know my right foot is a tiny bit bigger as well. It also seemed my laces didnt bulge out and deform and the sides of the skate actually came up above the tongue bulge. The issue with these skates is i know the rbz90 is higher end and therefor stiffer but it just felt hard on my foot where it hit. I would also be buying the RBZ 70 if i go with this line, but they dindt have it there. Im also concerned about CCMs durability as i see a lot of reviews saying they dont last.

The old Nexus was an odd find as it was the last one they had left, no box, and it looks like it was tried on many times. It was stiff around the ankle but around the foot felt like a snug slipper or leather dress shoe, not uncomfortable in the short term but i couldnt tell if it would be bad during skating. But the foot felt like with a bake it would just melt and want to conform (in a good way). This is also one step up form the 600 so maybe the 600s will be bit more conforming. The laces werent bulging like on the Easton EQ40s but you can see the sides werent as deep as the CCMs and the laces did need to come up more.

I did compare the 8.5EE footbed of the eastons to the 8.5D footbeds of the nexus and rbz and the nexus had about 1/8th and inch more width and the rbz maybe a hair more.

In the end I feel very confused because nothing fits me well to the point where I feel comfortable spending $200 on a new pair to when the purpose is to eliminate the pain. The only other option is to maybe look at some grafs? Im a little intimidated by their number naing system and price, but im not sure there is a dealer anywhere remotely close to me that has a decent selection of theirs anyway.

[jonesy9020 77]

Consensus seems to be that the RBZ durability issues are coming from those that are really skating very very aggressively, and a lot of the issues seem to be on the top model rather than the 70 or 80. So I wouldn't dismiss them out of hand. If the Nexus D feels a little wide in the forefoot, a Supreme or Tacks EE could be just right if you can track one down.

I might be understanding incorrectly, but as far as the Islanders store goes, be careful judging widths there because if they're selling pro stock overruns, the widths will not be the same as on retail skates. Pro Stock skates are highly customized and, when they are marked with a width, tend to follow traditional lasting measurements (Vapor D = Baseline D for Pro Stock)

It took me forever to find my skates. I tried on Vapors, Eastons, Reeboks, and a whole mess of others before finding something that just felt right when I put it on. Keep searching, but take your time before committing. If you can make it to the Isles store, you're probably not too far from the Monkey in North Jersey. They should have a lot more widths and models available for you to try out compared to your average LHS (I still like to support the LHS, but some aren't the greatest for particularly difficult fittings due to limited selection).

[Souldriver 64]

The isles store is about 15-20 minutes form me and they have regular stock as well as pro stock, theyre a part of the iceworks facility there, its where the isles practice and rehab and they have skating sessions, leagues, and lessons for the public. To be clear i was trying on regular stock, nothing prostock. Looking at the prostock though its funny seeing how many of them have custom orthotics in their skate. Seems like were not the only ones with troubled feet.

For my weight, even though im not the fastest and hardest on my skates 250lbs puts me in the more aggressive category on how my skates wear. I heard of rivet issues with the 70s, im not sure if those are isolated, from poor maintenance, or something else. I need to do more research on that skate.

The nexus D doesnt feel too wide in the forefoot, everything feels like a snug slipper except on the point of pain, there is pressure but im not sure if its something that will bother me or not or can get a little more conformity when baked. The height/volume was also less than the rbz.

Unfortunately that hockey monkey is not close. Over an hour and many tolls away.

[strosedefence34 175]

I remember Plaza Sports out in the Rocky Point area had a bunch of Graf skates we are talking about 8 years ago possibly worth a phone call to them to see if they have any or if they are still open. Someone told me they opened a Pure Hockey in Carle Place. You could also give Hockey Underground a call I believe they are in Farmingdale. Not sure where on the island you are located, but those places are worth a shot.

[Souldriver 64]

I'll See if plaza sports is still around. A lot has happened in 8 years to the long island small businesses. I don't remember hockey underground having Graf but I'll call again. There is a pure hockey now open there. I'll call to see if they have grafs.

The issue still remains with the grafs of their expense, I would have to see what I could get from my barely used eq40

[strosedefence34 175]

I'll See if plaza sports is still around. A lot has happened in 8 years to the long island small businesses. I don't remember hockey underground having Graf but I'll call again. There is a pure hockey now open there. I'll call to see if they have grafs.

The issue still remains with the grafs of their expense, I would have to see what I could get from my barely used eq40

Yeah I moved away during college and only go back to visit my family and friends I'm not usually buying gear when I'm down there. I was suggesting those places to see if you could try on skates in a EE as well. Worth a shot since yes grafs are quite expensive.

[Vet88 674]

If the boots are still ok for you other than the localised pain then I'd be having a go at getting them punched first. Either get a shop to do it or do it yourself. The equipment you need is easy to get and there is a thread here covering what you need and how to do it.

http://modsquadhockey.com/forums/index.php/topic/63550-for-those-that-want-to-punch-their-own-skates/

I'm not sure how well a mid range boot will respond to an aggressive stretch but if you measure your feet up and find you only need to move the area 1cm or so then this should be ok. And if you get them to a comfortable point (again, the secret here is to stretch them SLOWLY) then you have a reference width for when you are hunting for your next pair of boots.

[Souldriver 64]

I love the skates, they respond well and are light and stiff, I have no issue with the skates besides the pain. I do think a stretch in that are will be hard, and measuring against the nexus footbed (the nexus being better but still may be too tight) the Easton is about 1/16 of an inch smaller to begin with so it need to make that up and maybe some more.

I think before stretching the boot it would be wiser see if I can find a skate that may fit by itself and sell the eastons since they're so new.

[crispy92 14]

Plaza is definitely around still. was their a few months ago. However go in once you've done your own research as their staff is pretty brutal.

[Souldriver 64]

I spoke to my friend that lives out there and he said the same thing, huge selection of the grafs but go in with knowledge in hand.

Like the CCM skates i havnt done much research on graf skates bc they are sparse here. Looking at it quick it looks like the 709 may be nice or maybe the G5035? It also seems to me graf has a bad rap as of late or maybe that is my imagination. Most of the NHL refs I see wear grafs so they must be at least a little comfy.

[Vet88 674]

i have found you need to work on a Graf skate. Often the holder is misaligned and the staples in the footbed are not in properly. These things you can fix yourself. The attack holder also has an issue, never over tighten the blade screw. But if you work at them they turn into a reliable boot. I've tried all the top end Bauer range, Rbk 20k, Easton Mako and others but I keep returning to my Grafs. 2 hours plus every day on the ice I need a comfortable skate. And yes, most refs and a lot of coaches / managers / trainers etc are in grafs.

[Souldriver 64]

I was thinking if I do a Graf, the one in my price range is a 5035 and it comes with the attack and I remember the issues with the screw. I was thinking about upgrading the holder to a higher end Graf model, but I didn't want to assume or think too much into the future. I keep hearing about Grafs comfort and it makes me envious of those that have comfortable skates

Holder misalignments seem to be more than a simple fix, would you mind explaining how you even diagnose a misaligned holder?

[Vet88 674]

A look at how it is mounted on the bottom of the skate is the general guide, is it mounted in the middle along the center axis of the skate, does it twist to one side or the other? Fortunately with Graf this is easy to fix, unscrew the holder, file out the holes in the holder to get it to realign and then screw back in with additional washers if required.

This is one reason why Graf are so good for people who have pronation/foot issues, it is easy to realign the holder to address foot alignment issues.

[Souldriver 64]

without seeing how the graf boots are, wouldnt the screws split back and forth in a widened hole? especially with the force of stops and such?

[jonesy9020 77]

without seeing how the graf boots are, wouldnt the screws split back and forth in a widened hole? especially with the force of stops and such?

Pretty sure most graf screws have teeth that dig into the sole to prevent this from happening. There's usually a layer between the insole and the outsole that's a sort of dense/thick fabric for them to grab on. Also just be careful when you buy them. If the skates you're looking at have a misaligned holder or the steel looks bent (overtightened screw), then either ask the shop for replacement steel or have them order you a new pair of skates.

[Souldriver 64]

Will do, if they have enough stock I can see if I can mix and match so both are good. Should I go as far as bring a straight edge to see if it's straight?

I looked up their dealers again and their site has updated majorly and there are one or two places close to me and I figured I would hit one up on the way to work. It turns out this was a shop inside the bethpage ice rink and when I got there their main guy was giving lessons and I couldn't wait or else I would be late to work. :/ I'll try again tomorrow.

The shop is called Dante Cozzi's in case anyone has any experience. They seem to have Bauer and Graf so it may be good to compare the two.