Son Wants to be in Goal

[IPv6Freely 2082]

You joined a gear forum; what did you expect? Haha! 

Seriously, glad to hear it. 

[badger_14 601]

I have no practical advice (that has not already been given), but here is a handy pamphlet to help you during this trying time:

 

[2nhockey 21]

That's funny!

Ok, so my daughter had a tournament this weekend that took us to the only hockey store I'm aware of in the state. Wow... the expense. So the store owner was generous and we got the gear stuff started. Got a TPS glove and blocker (used) and a new but last year's TPS stick (so discounted) 50%. The store let us size all the pad options he had, though he knew we weren't buying new pads from him. He gave us his recommendation and sent us out.

Found someone between the far end of the state and my end trying to move gear and scored some used Mission leg pads, CCM goalie pants, and an Easton bag. So, I'm looking for a chest and helmet. Or, so I thought. 

Thanks for the helmet help and thanks to the aforementioned shop, I have the helmet thing under control (still need to get one). 

So, chest... he measures exactly 18" from shoulder to wrist and is 5'1". So CCM size charts have him in a SR Small, but no room to grow. Opinions on size? Go with small or get the medium so I can get 2 years out since chest (and helmet) will be new?

Next question... knee pads? I thought they were built into leg pads. Link with recommendation, please. I thought we were down to just chest and helmet so need help, please.

So far, I am into this process for $220 so I am feeling pretty good about costs to this point, and feel if I have to buy new from here out I will come out about even given what I was afraid it would cost.

Thanks for helping. And grieving!

[IPv6Freely 2082]

1 hour ago, 2nhockey said:

That's funny!

Ok, so my daughter had a tournament this weekend that took us to the only hockey store I'm aware of in the state. Wow... the expense. So the store owner was generous and we got the gear stuff started. Got a TPS glove and blocker (used) and a new but last year's TPS stick (so discounted) 50%. The store let us size all the pad options he had, though he knew we weren't buying new pads from him. He gave us his recommendation and sent us out.

Found someone between the far end of the state and my end trying to move gear and scored some used Mission leg pads, CCM goalie pants, and an Easton bag. So, I'm looking for a chest and helmet. Or, so I thought. 

Thanks for the helmet help and thanks to the aforementioned shop, I have the helmet thing under control (still need to get one). 

So, chest... he measures exactly 18" from shoulder to wrist and is 5'1". So CCM size charts have him in a SR Small, but no room to grow. Opinions on size? Go with small or get the medium so I can get 2 years out since chest (and helmet) will be new?

Next question... knee pads? I thought they were built into leg pads. Link with recommendation, please. I thought we were down to just chest and helmet so need help, please.

So far, I am into this process for $220 so I am feeling pretty good about costs to this point, and feel if I have to buy new from here out I will come out about even given what I was afraid it would cost.

Thanks for helping. And grieving!

I'd go up a size of chest protector if and only if it isn't too long in the arms. Make sure it is tried on in conjunction with the gloves to make sure they don't interfere.

For knee pads, that's tough if you're on a budget. Personally I think the best knee pads on the market are Passau as far as comfort and protection. 

By the way make sure you get a good neck guard too. I think the best without question is Maltese but again, not cheap. 

[badger_14 601]

9 hours ago, 2nhockey said:

That's funny!

 

So, chest... he measures exactly 18" from shoulder to wrist and is 5'1". So CCM size charts have him in a SR Small, but no room to grow. Opinions on size? Go with small or get the medium so I can get 2 years out since chest (and helmet) will be new?

In my experience - I have a CCM chest protector - CCM runs *very* large.  (at least, the CL 500).  I am 5'6" and I am comfortable in an intermediate XL - I could have gone with SR small but the arms were honestly too long for me.  I forget if the SR small has adjustable straps, but I know the Intermediate does (on the top of the arms and also between the backplate and front) to adjust the fit.

[psulion22 402]

On 10/13/2016 at 4:22 PM, andysly said:

Exactly psulion22. I visited the Goalie Crease in Toronto and they set us up. They doubled up the foam and tightened the straps on the backplate to ensure proper fit. 

 

 

On 10/13/2016 at 4:25 PM, psulion22 said:

I trust Roddy implicitly, so if that's what they did I guess I'd be ok with it.

But I think I'd be more comfortable with the properly sized Wall.  

 

On 10/13/2016 at 4:27 PM, IPv6Freely said:

Totally agree, I'd trust Roddy too.

Does Wall make a youth certified fiberglass?

For those who may not have seen the news, Roddy passed away on Saturday night.  It seems he had a heart attack.  So sad

[2nhockey 21]

Found a CCM CL500 I'm planning to go with pending on sizing. I'm a little concerned about sizing so we'll see how it looks.

Looks like I'll have to order a helmet new. Looking at the Bauer C2. It says it is certified and carbon fiber construction for $325 or so. Overkill for Squirts? Seems to be lowest price helmet that is not plastic.

Thanks!

[psulion22 402]

I really don't know about the C2.  It says it's a CF shell.  But I don't see how it is.  Carbon Fiber is very expensive and masks that are made with it are as well.  I think it's deceiving.  I don't know what the base shell is, likely ABS, but it's probably onlt a very thin layer of CF that will offer a negligible benefit.  My friend had one and you could squeeze it in your hands.  Definitely not rigid like a fiberglass shell would be.

If you can step up, I'd look into the CCM 9000.  It's a full fiberglass shell on par with most higher level masks.  I believe it's the same layup that Michel at Protechsport uses on his base model.  I have one of those and it's an absolute tank.

http://www.goaliemonkey.com/equipment/masks/goalie-masks/ccm-goalie-mask-9000-sr-15.html

edit:  I just noticed you said you were looking at the C2 for $325-ish.  Get the CCM 9000 for the same price hands down.

[IPv6Freely 2082]

I'd honestly guess it's similar to the Tron "carbon fiber" goalie masks... plastic shell with a CF layer to make it look cool. It may add a bit of strength, but it's still just lipstick on a pig when it comes down to it. 

I'd also look at the NME8 in that price range. I have two of them. Really, it all depends on what fits and is comfortable once you get into the fiberglass masks, unless you're aiming for top of the line (or non-CSA/HECC certified). 

Is he big enough to be in a SR mask, though? 

[2nhockey 21]

I think so. About a 7.25 - 7.50 fitted hat. Part of the problem of no local shops is returns for bad fit. Won't be the first thing I would have to return due to fit. I guess the answer to your question is I have no idea. 

[psulion22 402]

Your squirt - meaning 9/10 y.o. - son wears an adult 7 1/4 - 7 1/2 size adult hat?  I find that incredibly difficult to believe. That would put him in an adult M/L helmet.  At 9 or 10 years old.  That can't be right.  I wear a size 7 1/8 - 7 1/4 hat.

When you say he wears a hat that size, is that what he tells you he is comfortable in?  What size player helmet does he wear?  Kids have absolutely no idea what fits appropriately.  More often than not, they will tell you things that are way too big are what fit comfortably, and things that fit correctly are too small.  Get a tape, measure his head to get the correct measurement.  I'm not trying to be mean, but you do have the kid there, right?  I understand not knowing what is good gear and what isn't.  But you have the kid, measure him.  measure his head size.  Measure his torso - chest, length, wingspan.  Measure his legs - knee-to-ankle, knee-to-floor, knee-to-hip.  geat a correct measure ment of his feet, not what he tells you is comfortable.  Apply all of those measurements to the gear you are looking at.  You can find charts online, or we can help here.  It' will take a lot of the confusion out of this.

[2nhockey 21]

Oh, you're not being mean - just presumptive in assuming I measured nothing or haven't tried fitting him proper. His player helmet is a CCM FL40 in medium adjusted out all the way. It is a little tight on his head because there are a couple spots on his head that are pretty red by the end of a game. I can get his helmet on (7-5/8 hat size) and snapped on. It is very tight on me but I can get it on.

He wears Easton Mako shoulders because he can get those on. All of the over the head pads are a real struggle to get his head thru.

I did take measurements - remember when I asked about CCM's size chart relative to what I measured on him?

Also, I have often found size charts can be very misleading. I diligently took a lot of measurements when I ordered shins for my daughter, and what arrived was just too big. Same for elbows. Thus, why I'm asking here.

So, no, I am not sure what size helmet for sure, but wouldn't be shocked if it is a senior size helmet.

[IPv6Freely 2082]

Good lord his hat size is the same as mine. 

[2nhockey 21]

I read on here some time ago about a Speedy Stitcher. I've looked off and on for one and finally found one at Cabelas tonight. Watched a YouTube video for instruction and attacked the piping on the leg pads. Very pleased with the finished product. I can see a lot of uses for this thing.

[IPv6Freely 2082]

9 hours ago, 2nhockey said:

I read on here some time ago about a Speedy Stitcher. I've looked off and on for one and finally found one at Cabelas tonight. Watched a YouTube video for instruction and attacked the piping on the leg pads. Very pleased with the finished product. I can see a lot of uses for this thing.

It's a lifesaver. I've used it numerous times on my goalie gear. My old chest protector I used it to shorten the arms, my old pads I used it to repair the jenpro strap that holds a buckle on, and on numerous pieces of equipment I've used it over top of velcro to make sure it doesn't come undone (the back straps on my old chest protector, and the straps on my knee pad garters). 

[psulion22 402]

12 hours ago, 2nhockey said:

Oh, you're not being mean - just presumptive in assuming I measured nothing or haven't tried fitting him proper. His player helmet is a CCM FL40 in medium adjusted out all the way. It is a little tight on his head because there are a couple spots on his head that are pretty red by the end of a game. I can get his helmet on (7-5/8 hat size) and snapped on. It is very tight on me but I can get it on.

He wears Easton Mako shoulders because he can get those on. All of the over the head pads are a real struggle to get his head thru.

I did take measurements - remember when I asked about CCM's size chart relative to what I measured on him?

Also, I have often found size charts can be very misleading. I diligently took a lot of measurements when I ordered shins for my daughter, and what arrived was just too big. Same for elbows. Thus, why I'm asking here.

So, no, I am not sure what size helmet for sure, but wouldn't be shocked if it is a senior size helmet.

So if he's in a senior player helmet, why wouldn't he be in a senior goalie helmet?  The size charts may have some wiggle room, but they aren't off that far.  I think it's a pretty safe assumption that if you didn't know if your kid needed a junior or senior helmet that the measurement was wrong, because it's pretty obvious if that number is correct he needs a senior mask.  The fact he's in a senior medium player helmet is a pretty strong indicator as well.  Maybe if you would have mentioned that it would have helped things along.  Quite honestly, I don't even understand how there could be a question if you knew he was in a senior medium helmet.

Shin guards are sized based on the length of the pad.  So if you were to measure the length of your leg from the knee to where you want the pad to end, you should have a pretty good idea of what size shin guards you will need.  The size charts don't do it this way for whatever reason, instead using height and weight at guidelines. Height is more irrelevant because people have differing shin lengths even for a particular height (I have short shins).  Elbow pads are a crap shoot.  The goalie size charts for leg pads are based on shin length and are pretty accurate.  Sizing varies between brands, but the charts for each brand are pretty good.  I'd say to go up a size where they are close to allow him some room to grow.  Good luck

[2nhockey 21]

Spent some time with the speedy stitcher last couple nights. The leg pads had some missing or busted straps, and the toe ties had been removed. Got the pads put back into playing condition. Hoping the repairs last.

Next was goalie pants. Stinky, but no tears or repairs needed. Into the washing machine and now can tolerate having them in the house at least.

Glove and blocker were treated to some alcohol and water, good to go. Jock is ready, too. Didn't know if the stick should be taped or not, so it's been taped and waxed.

Waiting on the CCM mask and C/A and neck guard/bib. Should be here today I think.

I know he needs knee pads. He's going to use his player skates for now. Is there anything else he needs? Is a dangler necessary? Do goalies wear player elbows under the C/A? Tryouts start in a week so I'd like to get this finished up this weekend. 

Thanks for the help! 

[IPv6Freely 2082]

For a kid? Yes get them a dangler. Get them used to it from the start so they don't try to avoid it later in life.

no to player elbows.

Got a bag? Undergarments? I'd recommend long pants and a long sleeve shirt. 

He may also want suspenders but that's a preference thing.

[psulion22 402]

A dangler really isn't necessary.  It doesn't do anything a good neck guard doesn't do.  And it is certainly not anywhere near a suitable replacement for an actual neck guard.  Plus they can break.  The worst injury I got playing goal was when my dangler shattered and a piece cut my neck (no neck collar).  Neck guards are much more important, danglers are just redundant.  If you really want to be safe, get one.   

if the elbow protection in the C/A is crap, or the arms don't fit right, player elbows can be worn.  But they aren't necessary, or even used in most cases.

Suspenders are also usually not necessary.  But if the pants do not have an internal belt, they will probably have to be used.  Most retail pants will probably have an internal belt though.

[2nhockey 21]

I still don't have a dangler but it is in the plan to get.

The CCM CL500 chest arrived and as feared and predicted it was too big, so got sent back. A trip to Play It Again netted an Itech Prodigy. It is used and the stinkiest piece of gear in the house right now. It has not been abused and has all its straps, etc. Arm/elbow protection seems ok. Paid $90 for it and in contrast to the brand new CCM CL for $115 I don't think it's a good buy. Also, the CCM we had that got returned seemed to have more and better padding throughout. However, tryouts are next week and I needed something now. Thoughts on the Itech vs CCM CL 500? I can still order the CCM and return the Itech.

So, we have all gear necessary to get him on the ice for today's open hockey. I'm planning on getting feedback from him in a couple hours and hopefully not have to scramble for last minute adjustments or purchases!

Thanks for continuing feedback. I thought regular player gear was complex... ha! Then came goalie! 

 

[marka 518]

Howdy,

Similar, but different...   My son (age 9) had his first actual game yesterday in goal (actually, first real game ever).  Its a house team and the skill level is quite mixed, mostly toward the lower end.

Anyway, they got crushed.  14 to 0, though they stopped putting points on the board at 10 and switched to a running clock.  My son let in some that should have been easy saves, but there was also plenty of defensive breakdowns & tic tac toe around the net that would be super tough for any goalie.  I'd estimate that 2/3's to 3/4's of the game were spent in our defensive zone.  My son held it together during the game, kept trying hard, was quiet after the game, and pretty much broke down in the car on the ride home.

Talking about it later, it was clear that he put nearly all the blame on himself and had a hard time recognizing anything at all positive from the game.  I tried to emphasize that I was proud of him for continuing to try and holding it together plus pointed out a few positive moments where he made good saves.  We also talked about a couple things to work on for the next time.

I guess my question after that long introduction is do any of you goalies or goalie dad's out there have any advice on how to manage the negative emotions so that the fun and willingness to work hard remains?

Mark

[badger_14 601]

Hey, he kept trying, that's more than some goalies (or players) might do!  That's important.  So, @IPv6Freely is probably the guy to talk to about not having an existential crisis over every loss, he seems really good at that.  

As a coach and wrangler of children: the "sandwich" method of coaching.  "Sandwich" a constructive criticism with things you noticed that went well.  Ask the kiddo questions, involve them in the process - "I thought you did a good job doing [x], what do you think?" or "What do you want to work on next game?"  It's been helpful for me as a player and coach to focus on, say, three specific goals for my next game or practice.  It can be something as small as (when I was first beginning) "get up without clinging to the goal", or up to "don't let in ANY GOALS EVER" (that's not a good goal to have).  Goals should be "SMART" - Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Realistic, and Timely.  You could say, "well, I want to work on keeping my hands up and ready" or, "I want to make sure I use both feet equally when standing up". 

I have found with the older kids, Squirt+, with prompting they are pretty good at coming up with their own goals and ideas.

As a player ... I have a good team.  I have people who will say, "that was a good save", or who remind me that even NHL goalies don't get a shutout *every* time they play.  Squirts are not quite as adroit at this as (many) adults, but one should not underestimate the importance of friends and teammates who will distract you and make you laugh after a hard game. 

[IPv6Freely 2082]

2 hours ago, badger_14 said:

Hey, he kept trying, that's more than some goalies (or players) might do!  That's important.  So, @IPv6Freely is probably the guy to talk to about not having an existential crisis over every loss, he seems really good at that.

Good at losing? LOL! Funny you say that about a guy on a team that's won back to back league championships.  Or did you mean good at not losing my shit? Haha

Anyway. The one thing I watched that really stuck with me was a video by W Goaltending where he explains that you have to accept that every single goal is your fault, period. Even the ones you "had no chance on". At the end of the day it is your job to keep the puck out of the net, and a goal means you failed.

Specifically, there is always SOMETHING you could have done better. Maybe cut down the angle more, maybe a slightly harder push, maybe noticing the guys hips open up a bit indicating a pass across to the guy who scored on a one-timer. In every instance, you failed. And you need to accept that. Accept that you're not going to be perfect, that you're not going to have a shutout every game. Accept that mistakes are made almost constantly, whether big or small.

That mindset may not work for everyone though. In the age of kids being coddled and giving everyone participation trophies, it seems unlikely that parents are going to teach their kid to blame themselves for goals. It probably seems backwards to most people. But for me, it helped a lot. 

Having video also helped a lot, because then I could see where my mistake was. Probably once a game I have a goal scored on me that I thought "wow that was a great shot/pass", and then I see the video and my mistake is really evident. 

YMMV

[badger_14 601]

That ... did not come off how I meant it.  I meant: when @IPv6Freely does make a mistake (as is inevitable when one is beginning) he is great at taking it in stride and not letting it bring him down.  Unlike me, who lets in two bad goals and wants to bite my own fingers off. :D

There is room for improvement for everyone from beginner to pro, and it's not really (in my mind) a question of "Blaming yourself for a goal" but asking what could you have done differently, especially with kids, because young kids tend to have a harder time teasing out the difference between an adult saying they made a mistake, and an adult saying they did something *bad*.  The latter feels more like "I am a bad goalie because i let in [x] goals", the former is "I made a mistake that led to a goal, this does not reflect on my character".  I have to remind myself of that often.  A kid who loses 14-0 probably feels like he is a bad goalie, because he didn't stop any shots.  And he probably made mistakes, but he probably did some positive things, too - not giving up, watching the puck, making an effort vs. just standing in terror.  So he is not a bad goalie, just a new goalie, who made some mistakes, and he can work on those.

[2nhockey 21]

I've found when my daughter has a tough game or practice it is best to just avoid the topic of hockey altogether for awhile. If she brings it up and it is framed at all negatively then I just change the subject. Once she's had time to cool off she always brings hockey up and we can have a discussion about the game. She is hypersensitive so as much as she wants feedback her ego won't handle all negative feedback. So I always gave 'sammich' feedback without knowing that's what it was called.

I always tell both kids that hockey is very tough and they need to expect nothing in hockey will come easy, and the guys who make it look easy have just practiced that much.