AS1 skates too stiff.....

[VegasHockey 1280]

Does anyone else find the AS1 to be a little too stiff of a skate? CCM had stopped retail factory production of the FT1 in order to prepare for the next Jetspeed release and the only retail sizes available for this player are in the AS1 and 70K. The 70K is way too big for the player and the AS1 fits him perfect, but he has been complaining that he cannot find the proper way to lace them to allow for good stability/support while allowing proper flexion. He previously used the 1st generation Jetspeed skate which is quite a stiff skate, not as stiff as the AS1, but still... I somewhat understand what he is going through as I personally found the first generation one-piece Super Tacks to be too stiff. Though the AS1 is slightly less stiff, it's overly stiff for me as well and feels more like a ski boot than a hockey skate. 

[Vet88 674]

I still have both, I personally think the Jetspeed is a soft skate compared to a Bauer one100, apx2, mx3 or other top of the line skates. The AX1 isn't that far off my apx2's for sidewall stiffness so it does rate up there as one of the stiffer boots on the market. And as I only lace the bottom 4 eyelets then the sidewall stiffness is all I ever care about these days so I can't comment on how well they would forward flex thru the ankle if laced right up. Not much would be my thought so they really would suit someone who sits back on their heels. Has he tried dropping eyelets for more forward flex? If hes done that yet found his stability compromised then imho he has other issues besides just the skates.

[iceman8310 105]

The as1 is probably the wrong fit.  Try another jetspeed.  Possibly try vapor.  

[colins 246]

 

If he liked the 1st gen Jetspeed and he's not caught up in needing the top-model skate just for the sake of it being the top model, I'd try the FT380 (or FT390 - but the 390 might be stiffer since it uses Speedcore 3 instead of the Speedcore 2 in the first gen Jetspeed and FT380). Remember to go up half a size from his 1st gen Jetspeed as CCM changed their sizing between the first gen Jetspeed and the FT's.

My oldest son went from the first gen JetSpeed to a Jetspeed Control (which is a SMU based on the FT380 with some FT390 and FT1 upgrades). He tried Vapors but just couldn't get the same feel as the first gen Jetspeed. He did find it in the Jetspeed Control.

Other than ongoing eyelet issues with the Jetspeeds (I've written on this before several times - and yesterday his 4 month old Controls needed 3 eyelets replaced already) he loves them.

colins

[60PlusWinger 82]

 It isn’t just about fit it is about skill level and skating ability as well.  Just because it is the top-of-the-line skate doesn’t mean it’s right for you and it definitely does not mean you were going to skate better.  It is a system where all components need to sync together such as playing level skating ability size and what you actually need the skate to do. 

[JC225 6]

I have to agree with Winger on this.

Just because it's the best that money can buy doesn't mean it's the best for you and what you need. I myself recently fell into that trap and thank God CCM had the "90 day satisfaction guarantee". Although I was reluctant to do it, I switched from a set of AS1's to a set of Vapors and I have to say that although the AS1's were an awesome set of skates,  I can get the Vapors to do much more for me. The fit, the feel and the control are much better because everything finally came together and I found what was best for my build, experience and skating ability. After having the AS1's for the better part of a three month period and averaging 15+ hours per week on the ice, I believe (and this is only my opinion) that a more experienced, heavier built player that is an aggressive or more powerful skater would probably be able to reap the true benefits of the AS1's.

Just a thought.

[Santos L Halper 90]

15 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

[snip]

The 70K is way too big for the player and the AS1 fits him perfect, but he has been complaining that he cannot find the proper way to lace them to allow for good stability/support while allowing proper flexion. He previously used the 1st generation Jetspeed skate which is quite a stiff skate, not as stiff as the AS1, but still... I somewhat understand what he is going through as I personally found the first generation one-piece Super Tacks to be too stiff. 

[snip]

...Emphasis added...

 

So, you're obviously not asking for yourself...but, out of curiosity, are you asking for a youth player?  As in 13 or younger?

If so, then, from a skating coach's perspective, yes.  The AS1 is (almost) definitely too stiff.  

All other things being equal, youth players should never be in a skate that stiff.  It will hamper the development of proper skating mechanics and teach bad habits that are virtually impossible to break. 

Think 'middle of the line' skates for youth players....they need no more stiffness than is offered in a Tacks 9080 (maaaaaaaaybe 9090 - for a stronger/heavier player) or Jetspeed FT 380 (wouldn't go 390s - they're VERY stiff).

(Incidentally, the same holds true for an adult recreational/beer-league player that isn't routinely pushing themselves to their limits.  Pro level stiff skates are just not needed by the vast, VAST majority of adults.  But, then again, adult players don't generally ask me what skates to buy - youth parents do....😉) 

[VegasHockey 1280]

2 hours ago, JC225 said:

I have to agree with Winger on this.

Just because it's the best that money can buy doesn't mean it's the best for you and what you need. I myself recently fell into that trap and thank God CCM had the "90 day satisfaction guarantee". Although I was reluctant to do it, I switched from a set of AS1's to a set of Vapors and I have to say that although the AS1's were an awesome set of skates,  I can get the Vapors to do much more for me. The fit, the feel and the control are much better because everything finally came together and I found what was best for my build, experience and skating ability. After having the AS1's for the better part of a three month period and averaging 15+ hours per week on the ice, I believe (and this is only my opinion) that a more experienced, heavier built player that is an aggressive or more powerful skater would probably be able to reap the true benefits of the AS1's.

Just a thought.

I agree.

 

1 hour ago, Santos L Halper said:

...Emphasis added...

 

So, you're obviously not asking for yourself...but, out of curiosity, are you asking for a youth player?  As in 13 or younger?

If so, then, from a skating coach's perspective, yes.  The AS1 is (almost) definitely too stiff.  

All other things being equal, youth players should never be in a skate that stiff.  It will hamper the development of proper skating mechanics and teach bad habits that are virtually impossible to break. 

Think 'middle of the line' skates for youth players....they need no more stiffness than is offered in a Tacks 9080 (maaaaaaaaybe 9090 - for a stronger/heavier player) or Jetspeed FT 380 (wouldn't go 390s - they're VERY stiff).

(Incidentally, the same holds true for an adult recreational/beer-league player that isn't routinely pushing themselves to their limits.  Pro level stiff skates are just not needed by the vast, VAST majority of adults.  But, then again, adult players don't generally ask me what skates to buy - youth parents do....😉) 

16 years old, 5' 9" and 165lbs. He is an excellent skater was actually drafted for the WHL. I would put him in a pair of True skates but he said they are too ugly. lol

[VegasHockey 1280]

I put him in a CCM Jetspeed Xtra Pro + II SMU and he loved them. Looks like it was the right amount of performance and flexibility for him. 

[Santos L Halper 90]

28 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

16 years old, 5' 9" and 165lbs. He is an excellent skater was actually drafted for the WHL. I would put him in a pair of True skates but he said they are too ugly. lol

 

Got it.  Then I would say that the top of the line skates aren't necessarily out of the ball park for him!

Once a kid's feet stop growing and they start putting on mass, then higher end skates start to make sense - especially if they are continuing into the elite levels of competitive hockey.

Depending on size need, you may try the Tacks 9090s...or last year's Super Tacks - HockeyMonkey has a great selection of 2017-18 Super Tacks for a damn reasonable price...

[colins 246]

17 hours ago, Nicholas G said:

I agree.

 

16 years old, 5' 9" and 165lbs. He is an excellent skater was actually drafted for the WHL. I would put him in a pair of True skates but he said they are too ugly. lol

 

He should seriously check out the Jetspeed Control skates then. They are very similar to first gen Jetspeeds (Speedcore 2 based FT380) with an upgraded tongue from the FT1 and outsole from the FT390. They also have the higher +2mm stainless runners. For $499 cdn.

It sounds like you work in a shop - but maybe not a Source for Sports though? That would make it tougher since these are a Source exclusive SMU. But if I'm him and I loved my first gen Jetspeeds, I'd try these on (go up half a size since sizing changed).

 

The CCM Jetspeed Senior Hockey Skate is a Source for Sports Exclusive model based on the CCM Jetspeed FT380 Hockey Skate. Our skate experts have upgraded several specifications to enhance the overall comfort and performance of the skate.

Source Exclusive Upgrades:

Upgraded Tritech White Felt tongue with Molded Lace Bite Protection from FT1

Upgraded Composite Outsole with Exhaust System from FT390

Upgraded CCM Speed Blade Stainless +2mm Steel

 

[VegasHockey 1280]

9 minutes ago, colins said:

 

He should seriously check out the Jetspeed Control skates then. They are very similar to first gen Jetspeeds (Speedcore 2 based FT380) with an upgraded tongue from the FT1 and outsole from the FT390. They also have the higher +2mm stainless runners. For $499 cdn.

It sounds like you work in a shop - but maybe not a Source for Sports though? That would make it tougher since these are a Source exclusive SMU. But if I'm him and I loved my first gen Jetspeeds, I'd try these on (go up half a size since sizing changed).

 

The CCM Jetspeed Senior Hockey Skate is a Source for Sports Exclusive model based on the CCM Jetspeed FT380 Hockey Skate. Our skate experts have upgraded several specifications to enhance the overall comfort and performance of the skate.

Source Exclusive Upgrades:

Upgraded Tritech White Felt tongue with Molded Lace Bite Protection from FT1

Upgraded Composite Outsole with Exhaust System from FT390

Upgraded CCM Speed Blade Stainless +2mm Steel

 

Yeah, I put him in a CCM Jetspeed Xtra Pro + II SMU and he loved them. They look to be very much the same skate as the Source for Sports model. In fact, to me, they look like a V2 of the previous generation Jet Speed Pro. 

[colins 246]

32 minutes ago, Nicholas G said:

Yeah, I put him in a CCM Jetspeed Xtra Pro + II SMU and he loved them. They look to be very much the same skate as the Source for Sports model. In fact, to me, they look like a V2 of the previous generation Jet Speed Pro. 

 

Awesome. I didn't realize Cyclone Taylor had that SMU. Very similar to the Source SMU but with a black tongue. I love that CCM gives retailers this option to build their own - really fills in the product options with a package that's at my personal sweet spot for cost vs. features. Incredible value from my POV.

 

colins

[goalieman39 37]

1 hour ago, Nicholas G said:

Yeah, I put him in a CCM Jetspeed Xtra Pro + II SMU and he loved them. They look to be very much the same skate as the Source for Sports model. In fact, to me, they look like a V2 of the previous generation Jet Speed Pro. 

The Jetspeed SMU's were really good this iteration.