Strong pain in my feet

[hockeydad3 51]

4 hours ago, stick9 said:

If you're in pain after baking, you're in the wrong skate. I'd go so far as argue that skates shouldn't hurt right out of the box. Uncomfortable...yes, painful...no. 

Well my skates didn´t hurt standing in them for half an hour on the carpet or sitting around with them tied quite tight. Start hurting on the ice after 10-15 minutes, so i can´t return them.

Edited April 28, 2019 by hockeydad3

[stick9 888]

1 hour ago, hockeydad3 said:

Well my skates didn´t hurt standing in them for half an hour on the carpet or sitting around with them tied quite tight. Start hurting on the ice after 10-15 minutes, so i can´t return them.

That is unfortunate. It should be noted that simply standing in them is not a proper assessment of fit, nor is sitting. If you can't take them out on the ice I'd strongly suggest you spend as much time as possible walking in them. Walking is not skating but at least it gives you a rough idea of how well your heels are locked in. It should also give you some insight as to whether or not the boot is the proper depth for your foot. Generally I'll spend at least 15 minutes walking around the store before buying.

[Vet88 674]

On 4/27/2019 at 9:17 PM, hockeydad3 said:

A local shop has put me into Supreme 6.5EE, beeing too long, too wide and too shallow. I realized that after breaking in.

Could it be that the skates will continue to break in? Skated about 25 hours.

Wouldn't be the same LHS that said you needed to be in a Nexus??? After 25 hours I don't know how much more give you would expect out of a low end boot, I think you need to be exploring other things. And I can understand your reluctance on customs, there is no guarantee atm that a custom would stop your foot pain if the cause is a muscular issue. As it's across all your boots, you might want to consider a pitch change to try and shift your balance a little further back towards the heel. And it seems a looser lace helps, try to go for a couple of laps with your laces untied, I won't deny it's hard but it would help to determine your balance over the blade, your weight distribution and remove any pressure across the forefoot. If you have pain during this skate I'd consider seeing a foot specialist to see if you have any weaknesses / impingement's in the forefoot / arch that are only evident when in skates and moving.

[hockeydad3 51]

13 hours ago, Vet88 said:

Wouldn't be the same LHS that said you needed to be in a Nexus??? After 25 hours I don't know how much more give you would expect out of a low end boot, I think you need to be exploring other things. And I can understand your reluctance on customs, there is no guarantee atm that a custom would stop your foot pain if the cause is a muscular issue. As it's across all your boots, you might want to consider a pitch change to try and shift your balance a little further back towards the heel. And it seems a looser lace helps, try to go for a couple of laps with your laces untied, I won't deny it's hard but it would help to determine your balance over the blade, your weight distribution and remove any pressure across the forefoot. If you have pain during this skate I'd consider seeing a foot specialist to see if you have any weaknesses / impingement's in the forefoot / arch that are only evident when in skates and moving.

We do have more than 3 hockeyshops in a 50 km range around. But they are all small. They don´t have the complete range of skates in all sizes and widths on stock. Almost wanting to sell what´s in the shelves. One was fitting me into a supreme 6.5EE, which was not on stock, they made me trying a supreme 7.0EE too big, 6.5D too narrow and nexus 6.5EE too wide.Could find a supreme s160 6.5EE second hand quite as good as new, ending up beeing too wide, too shallow and too long The nexus 6.5D was my own conclusion. The nexus 6.5D having the correct lenght, but giving me pain.

Is the N2900 a low end boot? It´s the middle one of the nexus-line, the next upgrade is the 2N.

Yesterday i gave them a new bake. Tying loose and standing in them, not walking. The other bakings i was tying them very tight and sitting around. Maybe that changed the fit a little.

[Stooch 1]

A few bits of advice here, but let me give a little boring but useful background here first...

I Googled this site yesterday, because I was wondering if the bone spurs I had (by achilles) were potentially a skate thing. That's how I found this forum. I know your problem is different, but I've gone through some steps now to get myself on the way to recovery, and I'd like to share some tips to help you, hopefully.

Firstly, go see a doctor. I went and saw my doctor after having problems on and off with my feet for like forever. I foolishly put this off. I have Plantar Fasciitis (again, we all know that isn't your issue though), and I dealt with the pain every day for about a year straight before I decided to go in to the doctor (the problem has been off and on for way longer though, but I had a long bout with P.F. this year). The doctor looked at my foot and saw the spur. I didn't realize that's what it was. He also gave me x-rays as well as an ultrasound and that confirmed some things... the heel spur, and I had a lot of calcification all throughout my foot (something that may be a problem for you!) and that I had a tear in my achilles tendon (thank you, bone spur). 

So the first thing they tried was a steroid injection (Which probably should have been last or 2nd last, but I digress). It was to try and heal the tendon. It didn't help, although it relieved pain temporarily. Next thing I've done is Electro Shockwave Therapy, and that has been really good at clearing things up. My left foot seems to feel normal again. Might right foot is still being worked on though. The tendon damage will take time to heel. 

Anyways, I thought I'd Google about bone spurs and hockey skates to see if there was a correlation, and I found this forum, and learned there can be. I hadn't really thought it was my skates though, because until yesterday, my feet feel like they're in a cloud when skating. I'm still not sure it's my skates. I've had some bad shoes, so it might be caused by that instead, or something else.

Some other tips, consider your skates (as you have)... are they sized right, or too big or too small? Either can be a real problem. 

I noticed you said you have an orthotic insert. Have you had this a long time? I got one years ago for my shoes, and I wasn't explained at the time that I need to slowly adjust to them.. 30 mins here and there, and build up to wearing them full time. I ended up throwing them out because my feet were in SERIOUS pain, especially in the arch area, while wearing them. A physiotherapist later told me I needed to adjust to them first. Also, I noticed you had Superfeet insoles + bauer insole + orthotic insoles.This may or may not be obvious, but I'll say it anyways.. make sure you only have one insole in there at a time, of course.

I see you have Superfeet insoles already. I will say that they aren't all the same, so it's possible you need a different type. Mine are high in the heel. The Pro skate shop in my area recommended them, and I thought at first it's just "snake oil", but I bought them anyways, and I would never wear skates without them now. Consider a different type, perhaps.

One last thing, I have had a couple pairs of skates in the first year. The first pair were some sort of Easton skate (no longer made). They were an expensive skate. Had them baked.. felt great in store. Not long after, I realized they were pretty damn uncomfortable skates. I had them punched out in areas where the pain was, but it never helped. I then eventually bought Reebok 9ks (also no longer made) and had those baked and it was NIGHT and day difference. It's like I'm wearing shoes when I skate. No pain at all (except yesterday, for some reason, but I just had shockwave therapy the day before that, so that could be why). I feel like those ones fit a lot better. I have wide feet, so that's a real issue for me, personally. 

So, sorry to ramble, but I hope something in there helps.

TLDR version:

- See a doctor and get them to refer for x-ray/ultrasound to understand if you have a foot problem or if it's just the wrong skates.

- Consider different insoles again. Maybe your doctor or a podiatrist can recommend what to do, based on your foot type (high arch, flat foot, etc.)

- Last resort, perhaps (due to expense), look at buying different skates. Understand your foot first, and understand the boot. Ex: do you have wide feet? Some brands are very narrow. 

 

I hope something in there helps, but I can really recommend a doctor visit. If I didn't do that, I wouldn't have known all the damage that was in my foot, personally. I thought it was going to go away, so I waited, and waited, and it just wasn't. 

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by Stooch

[hockeydad3 51]

I do have some medical background. Today i coincidentally met a orthopedist who is specialized on feet. His opinion is that I´m not used to skating and i would have a short achilles-tendon caused due to my age and my unathletic earlier life, aggravated by my weight. This will put a lot of stress on my plantar-fascia. I should regularly stretch my achilles tendon and the plantarfascia and have patience, it would take months.

This evening was my last hockey-session for this season. The baking gave me a little more room on the sides of my feet. I was tying my skates too loose, but had no time for retying. That´s why i had the chance to notice a third component of my pain: I´m loosing volume inside the boot during the first 10 minutes on the ice! Maybe my feet are swelling up and/or the boots are shrinking due to the temperature on the ice.The pain on the footsole was still present but definitely better than ever before.

Thanks for your Advice and we will meet us in the rollerhockey forum 😉

[Stooch 1]

5 minutes ago, hockeydad3 said:

I do have some medical background. Today i coincidentally met a orthopedist who is specialized on feet. His opinion is that I´m not used to skating and i would have a short achilles-tendon caused due to my age and my unathletic earlier life, aggravated by my weight. This will put a lot of stress on my plantar-fascia. I should regularly stretch my achilles tendon and the plantarfascia and have patience, it would take months.

This evening was my last hockey-session for this season. The baking gave me a little more room on the sides of my feet. I was tying my skates too loose, but had no time for retying. That´s why i had the chance to notice a third component of my pain: I´m loosing volume inside the boot during the first 10 minutes on the ice! Maybe my feet are swelling up and/or the boots are shrinking due to the temperature on the ice.The pain on the footsole was still present but definitely better than ever before.

Thanks for your Advice and we will meet us in the rollerhockey forum 😉

Hmm, interesting.. I actually missed that you had heel pain as well.. just saw some other posts that eliminated plantar fasciitis being the issue. I personally do stretches of my achilles now. It's new for me though.. only about a week and a half, but I feel it is helping to strengthen the tendon. I get foot pain all over my feet too, not just in the heel. It still would be nice to have an xray and ultrasound in your case, but I'm no doctor. It just helped confirm the issue for me. Skate lace tightness definitely plays a factor and requires some experimenting too to find the right tightness for best comfort.

[hockeydad3 51]

Thanks for your answer, it is not plantarfasciitis which is chronic. And i don´t have heelspurs. It is an acute reaction of the fascia, only in skates on ice without shifts. I never had footproblems nor do i have them outside of skates.

[stick9 888]

Most likely your foot is swelling. I can't see a boot shrinking with temp. It anything the inside will expand slightly as the boot warms up from your foot.

Sounds like your doc had some good advice. Skating can be hard on your feet. Give it time.

[hockeydad3 51]

Today i had the chance to try a bauer-3d-scan (barefoot).The result was supreme 6.0 D. I didn´t get the exact measurements. I could see that both feet were slightly above the 6.0 level, maybe 6.1. The employee told me that i would have very wide heels, flat footsoles and small forefoots and that i should go custom because my feet are complex. The instep line of my scan fits the supreme-line and the nexus-line has room in the insteparea???-(my Supreme s160 6.5EE fails the penciltest and in my Nexus 2900 6.5 D my feet are touching the pencil) The pain in my footsole should be caused by compressed arteries in the heel-sole-area. They made me try some S29 6.5D and EE because a recreational-player could go up a half size. The EE was too wide (oh wonder) and in the D i was feathering the toecap. Both skates didn´t feel comfortable or like a second skin.

Did the Supremes change the fit from the S 1X0-line to the S2X-line? Does the S29 have a wider heelpocket than the N2900?

At home i was trying my Nexus, Supremes and Grafs. My Nexus skates are definetely snugger and more comfortable than the S160 or the S29 but i was missing lateral support. The Graf MCI 5035 6.5R have the best fit and the lateral support is superior to the Bauers, but they are too short. My big toe is my longest toe and the Graf toecap is round-pointed.

How far can the Graf toecap be stretched? Could my Tuuk holders 263mm from the S160 be mounted on my Grafs with 256mm T-Blades?

Could the N2900 heelbox be stretched, so i can tighten the ankles more without cramping the heel-midfoot-area?

Should I try the S29, or should I go custom?

[stick9 888]

Custom should be a last resort. It's a lot of money, especially for someone just starting out.

A few people have had luck stretching toe caps. You dont get much though.

Heels can definitely be stretched.

[Vet88 674]

2 hours ago, hockeydad3 said:

How far can the Graf toecap be stretched? Could my Tuuk holders 263mm from the S160 be mounted on my Grafs with 256mm T-Blades?

Could the N2900 heelbox be stretched, so i can tighten the ankles more without cramping the heel-midfoot-area?

Should I try the S29, or should I go custom?

The toebox can be stretched quite a bit if you have the right tool. Customworx made a tool specifically for this, maybe reach out to @JR Boucicaut and he may be able to point you in the right direction based on where you live or if he has one. I can't comment on your holder swap as I don't know if it would fit.

Widening the heelbox isn't that difficult either, there are punch tools that are suitable just for this (not a ball but a flat oblong shape). You need to find a good LHS with the right tools.

If the S29 doesn't feel as good as any of the others you have then maybe try working on what you have first. Fixing one thing on a known boot is often much better than changing everything with a new boot. At least until you determine what is needed in a boot to get you to skate pain free.

[Paddy 11]

I had an experience that seems similar to yours. Also brand new to hockey when this began. Lower-end skates that were pretty flexible (supreme). After 20min on the ice, terrible foot pain. If I sat on the bench the pain would go away; back on my feet skating and the pain would come back super fast. After more weeks of skating, 20min was reduced to 10min, and sitting on the bench required unlacing to reduce the pain. When untied the pain would flat out go away, instantly.  Then I found this site, and assumed my skates fit poorly.

 

I'll skip the details of trying many insoles, lacing patterns, and stretching/punching the skates. My solution came from getting new skates. I do not believe I'm in perfectly fitting skates now... but compared to before I can't complain.

 

My solution was: much stiffer skate that wouldn't get skinny when I tighten the laces. I'm convinced my old skates were too narrow for my MID-Foot, and because they're flimsy they would get even more narrow when laced, then when my 200lbs was pushing down my foot couldn't expand; so the skeletal structure of my foot was just jacked up. Because I was/am a weak skater, I still rely on a "tight" skate to give me support to make up for my inability, but the STIFF boot of the Supertacks does not squeeze my mid foot from the sides when they're laced. If I really crank them down, I can still get some minor pain, I believe from downward pressure on top of the mid-foot. I just don't tie them so tight.

 

tldr; same pain as you, tied skates too tight, got new better fitting and stiffer skates and my problem was solved. I could not spend an hour on my feet before.

[KelpFries 21]

I had been suffering from the exact same pain and fatigue problems and I tried everything from multiple bakes, Superfeet, heel lifts, R-Fit, even custom insoles along with trying to correct a pronation problem. None of it worked, in fact everything I tried made it worse. The pain was sometimes so bad i'd have to take my skates off, let my feet breath for 5 minutes and put them back on. Loose laces, tight laces, didn't matter, I had bad foot pain on the bottom of my feet from heel to balls. As a beginner 8 months ago I didn't know the first thing about skates and proper fitting so I relied on the guy at the LHS where I purchased my skates. Looking back now, I have a very strong feeling the guy was just trying to push the skates I was trying on because a week after I bought them they went from $389 to $209, an no, the guy didn't want to hear it when I went back a week later to complain about this and the pain I was having. The skates I bought were Bauer Supreme S27 7.5D's. I asked about others like Vapors and CCM's but he just kept saying nah this is what you want. A newb I trusted in his opinion. I'd had enough and through reading many posts on here and elsewhere I was convinced the skates were the wrong size. Now that i've got past the walker stage and am able to play a bit of hockey I figured i'd go elsewhere and try on every skate I could and try to get a better fitting. Anyway, I went to Monkey Sports in Woodbridge NJ and I can't give these guys enough props. They put me on each of the scanners, both Bauer and CCM, 3 times. The Bauer came up with Vapors 7EE as the recommended skates, not Supremes. CCM came up with 7EE jetspeeds. I tried them both, very nice, but I wanted to try on every goddamn skate they had and I did and the guy I worked with was more than happy to let me. He manually measured me a couple of times as well. I nailed it down to Vapors and Ribcors, both 7EE. The guy said lets bake them and see before you decide. They baked them! I hadn't even paid any money yet! Great store. Anyway, I ended up getting the Ribcor's. They were so comfy like a fluffy bunny slipper, and after the guy baked them and I sat in them for 20 minutes then walked around for 10 minutes they were unbelievably comfy. I also chose the Ribcor's over the Vapors because of CCM's 90 day policy, because who knows how they would feel after being on the ice with them for an hour. At least if I skated with them for a week and didn't like them I could just return them and pick something else. I have had zero pain in the Ribcors and have skated in them endlessly, they are as comfy now on the ice as they were in the store and it has made a world of difference in my skating.

The conclusion to this longwinded explanation is that the 7.5D Supremes I had were too narrow for my foot and were therefore squeezing the sides of my feet together which was causing pain on the bottom of my feet. Putting in supported insoles like Superfeet and the custom insoles I wasted money on were just making things worse because they were pushing up the arches of my feet and exacerbating the pain from the sides of my feet being squeezed by a skate that was too narrow for my foot. I now use superfeet insoles in my Ribcors because I like the bit of heel lift it gives and my feet are absolutely pain free and my feet do not get extremely fatigued after 20 minutes on the ice.

So when I hear someone talking about foot pain like this the first thing I have to say is, it's a skate fitting problem. Not that i'm an expert, i'm just a beginner, but i've suffered through exactly this problem. And I'll go nowhere else except for Monkey Sports from now on when I need skates.

[hockeydad3 51]

On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 6:35 PM, Paddy said:

I had an experience that seems similar to yours. Also brand new to hockey when this began. Lower-end skates that were pretty flexible (supreme). After 20min on the ice, terrible foot pain. If I sat on the bench the pain would go away; back on my feet skating and the pain would come back super fast. After more weeks of skating, 20min was reduced to 10min, and sitting on the bench required unlacing to reduce the pain. When untied the pain would flat out go away, instantly.  Then I found this site, and assumed my skates fit poorly.

 

I'll skip the details of trying many insoles, lacing patterns, and stretching/punching the skates. My solution came from getting new skates. I do not believe I'm in perfectly fitting skates now... but compared to before I can't complain.

 

My solution was: much stiffer skate that wouldn't get skinny when I tighten the laces. I'm convinced my old skates were too narrow for my MID-Foot, and because they're flimsy they would get even more narrow when laced, then when my 200lbs was pushing down my foot couldn't expand; so the skeletal structure of my foot was just jacked up. Because I was/am a weak skater, I still rely on a "tight" skate to give me support to make up for my inability, but the STIFF boot of the Supertacks does not squeeze my mid foot from the sides when they're laced. If I really crank them down, I can still get some minor pain, I believe from downward pressure on top of the mid-foot. I just don't tie them so tight.

 

tldr; same pain as you, tied skates too tight, got new better fitting and stiffer skates and my problem was solved. I could not spend an hour on my feet before.

Sounds like a similar problem. Standing or walking around off the ice is no problem for me. Standing and skating around on the ice i get the pain after 10-15 minutes. Playing with two lines and sitting on the bench between shifts, I can play for 90 minutes without problems. I need a good lateral support from my skates. I´m having 220lbs and skate size 6.5.

My next try is with  Supremes 180, used but in good condition. Stiffest skates i owned so far.