Conversion frames question

[Miller55 333]

Hey MSH, long time lurker (maybe 15 years, on and off) first time poster.

 

I have a question about some frames for conversion of old skates. I've been out of roller hockey for about 4 years now after playing rec league and competitive from about 1998-2016, so I've played quite a bit, but it seems like things have changed a lot from the 72/80 Hi-Lo days. (I know they were out a long time before 2014, but they were still easy to find).

I want to put some frames on an old pair of amp fly ice boots and I'm not sure what to put. I don't have any old 72/80 hi los that are worth using, so my options are basically a Hummer, vanguard or sprungs. Or i could wait and try the marsblades R1s I guess.

 

Issue is, another thread here said that there was trouble mounting vanguards on the amp fly, and I once tried the Hummers on the tour code tabu and I hated the all 80s setup, not to mention the dremmeling.

So basically, I can just fish around for old hi lo frames, or i can try the sprungs or marsblades. The reason I'm unsure about them is that everyone says the advantage is that they're more similar to ice, but I always played more roller than ice anyway, so that doesn't mean much to me as I'm comfortable going back and forth.

Do I lose anything from switching to sprungs if I don't need the ice like feel? Finally, anyone ever mount sprungs on amp fly boots? Thanks guys

Edited July 30, 2021 by Miller55

[Left Wing King 50]

Using Marsblades you wouldn't have to learn to skate. You may just have to adjust. As an ice player I love them as I'm able to switch between the two. However if you're soley roller you may as well stick with what you know. 

 

 

[althoma1 574]

I started playing roller in the 90s as well and have used a flat chassis, the Tuuk Rocker and Sprungs. The Sprungs see a suspension system to help with grip, turns, starts and stopping. You wouldn't have to learn to skate again if you switched to Sprungs,  you would just be able to take turns tighter and could potentially lengthen your stride with a toe flick.

I  haven't used Marsblades, but my understanding is that the O1 out now is designed for off ice training and has a smaller radius. It's also much heavier than Sprungs or a flat chassis. The new R1 chassis is designed for playing inline and has an insert that allows you to adjust the radius.

My personal choice would be Sprungs as that is what I use and prefer and the only other chassis I would seriously consider is the Marsblade R1. I just can't see going back to a flat chassis after using Sprungs for so long.

[Miller55 333]

Thanks guys.

That makes sense. I'm really trying to see if there are any advantages to sprungs or marsblades r1 aside from just being more like ice. From a purely roller standpoint, there is value in switching to a non fixed chassis it seems.

@Althoma, are there any downsides to the skating experience with the sprungs? Is there anything that's worse about skating on them than a fixed chassis? Skating backwards? Transitioning, cutting, sprinting? Do you find that they limit your play in any way, or is it all positive for you? 

Thanks again for the replies. Anyone else have any input? Pros and cons of sprungs from a pure roller perspective. I guess nobody had skated the r1s yet but they also look interesting.

[althoma1 574]

As far as playing with them when they're in good condition; it's all upside. The downside with Sprungs is maintenance and to an extent durability.

I used my original A6 chassis for about 4 years before I retired it, but probably went through at least one complete set of rocker arms during that time. There were a few reasons for this:

• The knuckles on the A6 arms were a weak point on the original version. The new version (launched 5 plus years ago) has beefed up knuckles with tighter tolerances.
• When I first started using them I didn't realize you had to condition them or clean them every once in a while (about once a month is good) and when the plastic gets dry it's more likely to break.
• I'm bigger/heavier than the average player and was jumping over the boards on changes like I do on ice, but now I just go through the door to avoid putting extra stress on the knuckles.

Also, if you don't take apart and clean the chassis on a regular basis the dirt that gets inside will cause friction and wear down the part of the chassis that holds the arms as well as the outside of arms themselves. This isn't as big of a problem where the rear arms are connected as the connection point is deeper. It's more of a problem in the front where the connection point is shallower - if you don't clean them regularly then they'll loosen up quite a bit after a few years. You'll still be able to use them, but they won't be as responsive as when they were new. If you're using them outside you should clean them even more often as the dirt you'll find outside is generally more abrasive than the dirt and dust on indoor courts.

With all of that said, I still wouldn't move to a flat chassis unless I had no other options. Only two of the new beefed up rocker arms have broken on me in the five plus years I have used them. They're wearing well, but I also clean and condition them about once a month and haven't jumped over the boards with them. The tolerances are tighter and the springs are stiffer so they also feel faster and more responsive.

A member on another forum used both the O1 Marsblade and Sprungs and prefered Sprungs for playing:

Having used both and playing semi pro hockey, I find the sprungs to be ultimate in terms of performance. Gives your quick feet an edge. However reliability is another issue. I go through these like a faze. (220 5’10) I’m not a huge guy but I play competitive inline in Canada and im hard on my feet. My sprungs were done after 2 seasons. I used mars for one season and I didn’t like the way there “rocker” sat. Put me on the toes of my feet too much. Preference for me is the sprungs, however it’s subjective. I know players who swear by marsblades.

The high level players that have demoed the Marsblade R1 love that though; so it seems like a great option if you're willing to wait until Aug/Sept. In this YouTube interview, John Schiavo discusses the difference between the O1 and R1 as well as vs. a flat chassis: 

The inventor of Sprungs has drawings of a new and improved Fizix chassis on Facebook, but there's no telling when or if that will be available. 

Edited April 30, 2020 by althoma1

[Miller55 333]

Thanks for the info. I looked into the sprungs. Do they still make them? I put in an email, so far no answer, but if I can get a pair I would try them. If I don't hear back in the next week I'll probably just try the R1 and wait. I would rather not wait, but I just dug up an old pair of Type Ms, so I guess I can use them until after the summer if need be. Anybody ordered and received a pair of sprungs recently?

[Vet88 674]

5 hours ago, Miller55 said:

Thanks for the info. I looked into the sprungs. Do they still make them? I put in an email, so far no answer, but if I can get a pair I would try them. If I don't hear back in the next week I'll probably just try the R1 and wait. I would rather not wait, but I just dug up an old pair of Type Ms, so I guess I can use them until after the summer if need be. Anybody ordered and received a pair of sprungs recently?

afaik Keith has no stock as he is putting all his focus on getting his new design out. However an ebay seller just put a bunch of frames up for sale, all sizes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Sprung-A6-A7-A8-IN-LINE-Roller-Chassis-Frame-6593/164181065317?hash=item2639f43e65:m:mL-oyL6x4__JWVveGEabUxw

[Miller55 333]

Gotcha. Thanks. Do you know if the manufacturer has replacement parts in stock at least?

 

I'm 6'1 200 lbs and in the past I was pretty hard on gear, so I wouldn't ever buy a product that doesn't have part support. At least not for that price. Maybe for 20 bucks.

Just a heads up, looks like the same seller posted on sideline swap for 110, in case anyone is interested. 

https://sidelineswap.com/gear/hockey/inline-roller/inline-skates/1874629-new-sprung-a6-a7-a8-in-line-roller-chassis-frame-6593

Edited May 3, 2020 by Miller55

[Vet88 674]

I don't know about replacement parts. Previously Keith has said he has them but I don't see anything for sale on the Sprung site. Hopefully he will reply to your email. Try an offer for the frames, if you get them cheap enough it would be worth it even without spares.

[Miller55 333]

http://sprunghockey.com/shop

From the site it seems that they have arms and the rubber bushings in stock and even the base, just not the bolts. I wonder how easy it would be to find those bolts at a hardware store. Anyone know? 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Miller55

[althoma1 574]

When I bought my Sprungs new they included a couple extra pivot pins and bolts. So the bag of hardware in the listing may already have one or two extras; you could ask the seller.

[Miller55 333]

Thanks for all the info guys. In the end I picked up 2 A7s. Haven't received them yet, so I can't say how I like them. I do know that until I can get on an indoor rink I'll probably just mount them and give it a quick test run, but it doesn't seem like they're ideal for right outdoor surfaces. I'd rather just use them for indoor so u don't destroy then to quickly. 

In other news, seems like my feet filled out a bit in the last 15 years, so the mission amps are just too narrow. Scored a pair of Bauer supreme 1s for 100 bucks in almost perfect condition, and they fit amazing. Can't wait to mount them and give em a ride with the sprungs. The only question I have about mounting is about the difference between 6-32 and 8-32 tnuts and bolts. It seems that people recommend either. Is there any practical difference or advantage to one over the other? I never did a mount with these, only a riveter that one of my old teammate's father had, so any advice is appreciated. 

 

Meanwhile with this whole virus going on I've been getting some time in on a handball court near my place. Busted out the old type Ms with the vibes. Love those things, hope the sprungs are even better.

[althoma1 574]

I have always had my conversions done at a LHS with rivets, but the key for a Sprung mount is that the chassis needs to be mounted 1/4" more to the rear of the boot (with most other chassis the mount is centered).

You can find the full installation instructions here: https://modsquadhockey.com/forums/topic/65472-sprung-question/?do=findComment&comment=994730

There's also this thread about converting inlines that mentions the use of t-nuts

https://modsquadhockey.com/forums/topic/44573-how-to-do-a-ice-to-roller-conversion/?do=findComment&comment=652410

[Miller55 333]

I read them. Doesn't answer the question though. I'd consider bringing to lhs if anything was open. Too much of a hassle. Anyway, just wondering if it matter 8-32 or 6-32 and why people choose one over the other

 

[Larry54 243]

10 hours ago, Miller55 said:

I read them. Doesn't answer the question though. I'd consider bringing to lhs if anything was open. Too much of a hassle. Anyway, just wondering if it matter 8-32 or 6-32 and why people choose one over the other

 

I chose 6-32 T-Nuts to limit the size of the holes in the outsole, and because they are more than strong enough. I suggest you get truss head screws since the head has a bigger diameter and negates the need to add washers which I would recommend if you used typical machine screws with smaller heads. If you can get stainless steel screws and/or T-Nuts, that would be a plus to avoid rust but not a must.

I also felt that the pitch didn't match my ice holders so I added a shim on the heel as you can see as the white piece of plastic in this photo.

[Miller55 333]

Gotcha, makes sense. Thanks for clarifying. Looks great btw

[Miller55 333]

So, just following up on this conversion. Ended up getting two pairs of sprungs from sideline swap. My old amp fly boots did not fit as well as I remembered. I ended up picking up a pair of supreme 2s pros and 1s and had JR convert them. Would have like to try the conversion but with this covid and all my kids home from school I didn't have time or energy. I'm glad I had it professionally done though. 

My thoughts on these sprungs are that they are amazing! They are so responsive it is incredible. I've been playing pickup and a lot of the guys are half my age and I'm able to shake these guys easily.

Another thought is that besides being insanely quick and agile, they are fast as heck. I tried the all-80 hum'er setup years ago on a pair of code tabu tours and I hated them. I was so used to the pitch of the 72/80 Hi-Lo that I felt completely flat on the hum'ers. They felt like I just couldn't get to my toes to dig and push off of.

 

I was a bit concerned that the sprungs would have this issue but it is the exact opposite. I feel like I get right to my toes and they are so responsive and powerful. It's amazing to have such maneuverability and also have such breakaway speed. These things fly, which is the upside of all 80s.

On the downside, it seems like the sprungs are particularly abusive to wheels. I've gone through a pair of 83a wheels in about 8-10 hours of play on concrete (2 weeks). I ordered a set of 89a wheels (I weigh about 195lbs) and we'll see how they do. The back wheel got destroyed. Regarding durability, only time will tell. 

Regarding the boots, I'll just say that they are stiff. They are probably way too stiff for this level of play and especially since I didn't get to bake them yet, the fit is not dialed in perfectly. It seems that skates are not really meant to be broken in the old school way anymore, because these are rough. They will definitely be comfy after a bake though. 

 

Thanks to all the guys who took the time to help me figure all this out.