Swapping ice to roller holders and back

[smcgreg 81]

Long story I won't bore you with.  Given my son needs to start spending a significant amount of time on inlines, we want to convert his mako ice skates to roller.  The question is, since Makos are getting harder and harder to find, can they be swapped back to ice holders? 

Mako rivets are already an issue, so, my assumption is that going to an inline holder will make it even worse. So, going back to ice holder after that seems pretty unlikely. 

Just wondering if anybody had experience going to inline and back to ice holders on the same pair of skates.

Thanks,

[IPv6Freely 2097]

Swap the rivets for screws like the old graf skates had.

[start_today 773]

Skates built for inline have beefier outsoles; inline chassis put more strain on the outsoles. With the Mako’s monocoque design, you might run the risk of damaging the skate because of the stress of skating. 

Skating inline is a whole different stride and feel vs ice. Since that skating process is different, you might as well just use different boots and save the Makos. Then you don’t have to worry about preserving the boots. 

Skating outside is also just harder on skates. More rocks, and all the hard surfaces can scrape the skates. Most of it is cosmetic, but it can build up. 

Edited May 5, 2020 by start_today

[start_today 773]

Edited for unsolicited / unwarranted advice. 🤔🙃

Edited May 5, 2020 by start_today

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

18 hours ago, smcgreg said:

Long story I won't bore you with.  Given my son needs to start spending a significant amount of time on inlines, we want to convert his mako ice skates to roller.  The question is, since Makos are getting harder and harder to find, can they be swapped back to ice holders? 

Mako rivets are already an issue, so, my assumption is that going to an inline holder will make it even worse. So, going back to ice holder after that seems pretty unlikely. 

Just wondering if anybody had experience going to inline and back to ice holders on the same pair of skates.

Thanks,

The holes typically don't interfere with each other installation-wise as inline rivet hole patterns are narrower.  You can dismount holders, install chassis, and go back if needed.  

On Mako, however, depending on the chassis, you may have to cut the plastic that wraps under the boot. 

 

[smcgreg 81]

2 hours ago, start_today said:

Aaaaaaand, at the risk of being contrarian, doesn’t everyone say kids should be playing multiple sports and developing multiple muscle skills? Is it really a “given” that your son “needs to spend significant time on inlines.” Maybe as he starts getting outside he works on baseball or lacrosse or soccer? 

People miss multiple months with injury and come back with no problem all the time, and that includes the rehab along with not skating. 

And if he loves skating and practicing roller, and that’s what keeps him active, great. 

Just trying to push back a little on the notion that kids need to be playing hockey 13 months a year to get good or stay good. 🙂

Sorry for the tone, I edited to be a bit more collegial.

 He's a 15U and in some ways, this is the most critical spring of his hockey future.  At 15U, he's getting to the point where he should specialize more.  Whether you like it or not, if you're not skating a lot the spring/summer of 15U, you're path is decided for you.  USHL combine may still be in July and not sure when tryouts will be rescheduled for.  Those who prepare properly will be in a good spot, those who don't, won't. 

He would love to be doing other things too, like playing lacrosse, but alas, no dice.  We do pass/shoot the lacrosse ball some though, but not like playing/practicing.  He loves to be doing multiple things, but more to "play" and be competitive than anything else.

To continue the "debate", my daughter also skates, skates everyday with her friend, because that's the only way for her to get social interaction with kids now.  She puts her skates on and goes when she wants, no pushing from me.  My son LOVES to skate.  Would skate 24/7 if he could.  The Vapors he uses for inline make him absolutely miserable after 30 min.  We've tried everything to make them tolerable.  I've tried everything to stretch them and make them tolerable.  Nothing fits like Makos though.  He WANTs to be ready for when he is back on the ice, so, he doesn't miss the opportunities in front of him. 

Finally, he does run, ride a bike and do strength work (limited by circumstances), but wants to skate as much as he was before, but it's not possible with his current inlines, because they just make him miserable. 

Like I said, long story I wasn't going to bore people with, but you you wanted to be contrarian (argue).

Again, apologies for the first response that was a bit snarky. Hadn't had enough coffee yet. 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by smcgreg

[start_today 773]

Yeah, sorry about that. I actually reopened the thread to delete that post, because it was totally unneeded and unsolicited. 

Good luck! I hope he crushes whatever is in front of him! 

[smcgreg 81]

39 minutes ago, start_today said:

Yeah, sorry about that. I actually reopened the thread to delete that post, because it was totally unneeded and unsolicited. 

Good luck! I hope he crushes whatever is in front of him! 

No worries, I was too combative as well.  Cabin fever. 

[krisdrum 233]

Not to go completely off topic... but do we really think the USHL and NAHL are going to have a fall/winter season?  Don't those programs depend on ticket sales to give kids their tuition-free opportunity?  What about billets?  Are these programs going to be able to attract enough households to house the players?  Are people going to send their kids to live with strangers?  I'm sorry, I just don't see it happening.  I'm not even sure I see a way for USPHL NCDC to have a season.  Less from ticket sales (as they mostly depend on the tuition of their youth programs to fund the NCDC program), but definitely from a billet perspective.

 

Sorry... back on topic... maybe a stupid question, but why does it even need to be a hockey-style lace up boot?  I've been given advice on this site before that roller-blade type skates are sufficient for most applications.  Granted, I am NOT a U15 trying to make a spot in the #1 league in the country.  So... what are you hoping your son can continue to work on in his inlines?  Fitness and the general skating motion or more specific technique that may not translate in a different boot?

 

 

[caveman27 208]

1 hour ago, krisdrum said:

Not to go completely off topic... but do we really think the USHL and NAHL are going to have a fall/winter season?  Don't those programs depend on ticket sales to give kids their tuition-free opportunity?  What about billets?  Are these programs going to be able to attract enough households to house the players?  Are people going to send their kids to live with strangers?  I'm sorry, I just don't see it happening.  I'm not even sure I see a way for USPHL NCDC to have a season.  Less from ticket sales (as they mostly depend on the tuition of their youth programs to fund the NCDC program), but definitely from a billet perspective.

Sorry... back on topic... maybe a stupid question, but why does it even need to be a hockey-style lace up boot?  I've been given advice on this site before that roller-blade type skates are sufficient for most applications.  Granted, I am NOT a U15 trying to make a spot in the #1 league in the country.  So... what are you hoping your son can continue to work on in his inlines?  Fitness and the general skating motion or more specific technique that may not translate in a different boot?

The unknown thing about it is some states may "reopen" sooner than others, and these hockey leagues exist in multiple states. So as a hypothetical situation, if the half of the teams exist in states that allow recreational facilities (namely ice rinks) to open before September, and the other half of the teams exist in states that don't allow it, you are going to have a situation where half the players can play and the other half can't. For guys looking to build their skill/experience resume to get to the next level (college hockey or a higher level Junior league), being on a team where they can't play is going to be a huge problem. I have no idea how things are going to pan out in Canada where ice hockey is like a boy's gateway to the pros. They appear to have less COVID-19 infections and deaths compared to the US, some provinces much less than others.

Aside from that, dryland training doesn't even have to involve inline skating/hockey. Cardiovascular exercise for endurance, sprint running and plyometric exercises for speed, and weight training for strength can give your child an edge when he gets back on the ice.

Edited May 5, 2020 by caveman27

[smcgreg 81]

24 minutes ago, caveman27 said:

The unknown thing about it is some states may "reopen" sooner than others, and these hockey leagues exist in multiple states. So as a hypothetical situation, if the half of the teams exist in states that allow recreational facilities (namely ice rinks) to open before September, and the other half of the teams exist in states that don't allow it, you are going to have a situation where half the players can play and the other half can't. For guys looking to build their skill/experience resume to get to the next level (college hockey or a higher level Junior league), being on a team where they can't play is going to be a huge problem. I have no idea how things are going to pan out in Canada where ice hockey is like a boy's gateway to the pros. They appear to have less COVID-19 infections and deaths compared to the US, some provinces much less than others.

Aside from that, dryland training doesn't even have to involve inline skating/hockey. Cardiovascular exercise for endurance, sprint running and plyometric exercises for speed, and weight training for strength can give your child an edge when he gets back on the ice.

Seriously?  .....

Look we can debate about optimal player development until the cows come home.  That's pretty much all I talk about most days.  I'm not going to go into my background, but it's not like these are things I've never thought about.  The point is, my son plays at a reasonably high level.  He hasn't been on the ice in about 2 months now.  The off season is over no matter what you're perspective.  The big unknown is when ice will be available.  For some, it already is.  The 15Us in Sweden skate as much as they want now.  Some billionaire kids are skating on ice several times per week right now.  When the ice comes back, it will be a war for 15 year olds to get positions on teams since everything has been thrown up in the air.  If you think the best thing to do right now is to cross train, good luck to you.  My son wants to skate, because that's his calling card.  He's generally fit.  He wants to be able to do his old drills (working inside and outside edge, transistions, etc....)  His current inlines are not tolerable for more than 30 min and I've done everything I can to make it better.  The solution to help him with what he wants is in my original question.

If the USHL doesn't play in the fall, that's not that relevant to a 15U.  They will play though.  They will likely start a bit late.  Many teams will fold though due to social distance requirements.  So, with a contracted league, it makes it even more important to put on a good show as a 15U. 

Now..... back to the question.  I think I've gotten the info I needed.  Thanks.

[caveman27 208]

10 minutes ago, smcgreg said:

Seriously?  .....

Look we can debate about optimal player development until the cows come home.  That's pretty much all I talk about most days.  I'm not going to go into my background, but it's not like these are things I've never thought about.  The point is, my son plays at a reasonably high level.  He hasn't been on the ice in about 2 months now.  The off season is over no matter what you're perspective.  The big unknown is when ice will be available.  For some, it already is.  The 15Us in Sweden skate as much as they want now.  Some billionaire kids are skating on ice several times per week right now.  When the ice comes back, it will be a war for 15 year olds to get positions on teams since everything has been thrown up in the air.  If you think the best thing to do right now is to cross train, good luck to you.  My son wants to skate, because that's his calling card.  He's generally fit.  He wants to be able to do his old drills (working inside and outside edge, transistions, etc....)  His current inlines are not tolerable for more than 30 min and I've done everything I can to make it better.  The solution to help him with what he wants is in my original question.

If the USHL doesn't play in the fall, that's not that relevant to a 15U.  They will play though.  They will likely start a bit late.  Many teams will fold though due to social distance requirements.  So, with a contracted league, it makes it even more important to put on a good show as a 15U. 

Now..... back to the question.  I think I've gotten the info I needed.  Thanks.

I hope you didn't take my dryland training advice as an insult.  I understand that skating and hockey experience (passing, shooting, on-ice stuff) cannot be replicated by dryland training, and that's 2/3rds of the game.  And, inline skating can activate similar muscles that are used in ice skating.

Has he been doing any off-ice exercising during that past two months?

 

[smcgreg 81]

3 minutes ago, caveman27 said:

I hope you didn't take my dryland training advice as an insult.  I understand that skating and hockey experience (passing, shooting, on-ice stuff) cannot be replicated by dryland training, and that's 2/3rds of the game.  And, inline skating can activate similar muscles that are used in ice skating.

Has he been doing any off-ice exercising during that past two months?

 

As I think I wrote above, he runs, rides a bike and does strength.  The strength is somewhat limited, but provided by the best hockey strength coach in the business.  He loves to be generally active, that's not a problem.  If he's not active he's miserable.  He really misses skating though. 

[krisdrum 233]

Sorry Greg, wasn't trying to stoke the fire.  You mentioned the USHL combines and I took it on a tangent.  To some extent, I get the position you are in with your son.  My nephew just had his U16 season on a team that was top 10 the last 2 seasons, on the road to nationals and made it last year.  He's hoping for a local NCDC contract for the fall.  Plus, we've been billeting the last 4 years.  Our latest "son", who lived with us the last 2 seasons, will be playing for Dartmouth in the fall.  Those experiences have given me a preview of what we could be in store for with my 9 year old if he decides he wants to pursue things to that level.  I don't envy the position you and your son are in, the tip of the needle gets pretty thin.  Hope you can figure out a solution for him and he rocks his upcoming season, whatever it may look like. 

[smcgreg 81]

4 hours ago, krisdrum said:

Sorry Greg, wasn't trying to stoke the fire.  You mentioned the USHL combines and I took it on a tangent.  To some extent, I get the position you are in with your son.  My nephew just had his U16 season on a team that was top 10 the last 2 seasons, on the road to nationals and made it last year.  He's hoping for a local NCDC contract for the fall.  Plus, we've been billeting the last 4 years.  Our latest "son", who lived with us the last 2 seasons, will be playing for Dartmouth in the fall.  Those experiences have given me a preview of what we could be in store for with my 9 year old if he decides he wants to pursue things to that level.  I don't envy the position you and your son are in, the tip of the needle gets pretty thin.  Hope you can figure out a solution for him and he rocks his upcoming season, whatever it may look like. 

No problem.  Like I say, these things are issues I deal with day in and day out and am happy to debate them ad nauseum.  That being said, the original question was focused and intentionally didn't go into the background for a reason.  On a thread where we're discussing optimal player development I'm happy to go toe to toe with pretty much anybody and happy to do it.  On a tech thread though, no so much.

RE: your 9 yr old, enjoy it while it lasts.  I miss those days already.  My daughter is only 12, but the squirt days are worth their weight in gold. 

[asgoodasdead 74]

On 5/5/2020 at 10:00 AM, smcgreg said:

Sorry for the tone, I edited to be a bit more collegial.

 He's a 15U and in some ways, this is the most critical spring of his hockey future.  At 15U, he's getting to the point where he should specialize more.  Whether you like it or not, if you're not skating a lot the spring/summer of 15U, you're path is decided for you.  USHL combine may still be in July and not sure when tryouts will be rescheduled for.  Those who prepare properly will be in a good spot, those who don't, won't. 

He would love to be doing other things too, like playing lacrosse, but alas, no dice.  We do pass/shoot the lacrosse ball some though, but not like playing/practicing.  He loves to be doing multiple things, but more to "play" and be competitive than anything else.

To continue the "debate", my daughter also skates, skates everyday with her friend, because that's the only way for her to get social interaction with kids now.  She puts her skates on and goes when she wants, no pushing from me.  My son LOVES to skate.  Would skate 24/7 if he could.  The Vapors he uses for inline make him absolutely miserable after 30 min.  We've tried everything to make them tolerable.  I've tried everything to stretch them and make them tolerable.  Nothing fits like Makos though.  He WANTs to be ready for when he is back on the ice, so, he doesn't miss the opportunities in front of him. 

Finally, he does run, ride a bike and do strength work (limited by circumstances), but wants to skate as much as he was before, but it's not possible with his current inlines, because they just make him miserable. 

Like I said, long story I wasn't going to bore people with, but you you wanted to be contrarian (argue).

Again, apologies for the first response that was a bit snarky. Hadn't had enough coffee yet. 

 

 

yeah, this is crap. i did nothing but hockey from 12-16. 2 teams year round, hockey camps every summer etc and pretty much hit a wall development-wise. then i took the summer off when i was 16 and played in a summer soccer league instead. came back to my high school and travel teams in the fall and was suddenly the fastest kid on the ice no matter who i was playing with or against. was previously one of the slowest. completely changed my game and i went from 3rd pair D to 1st.

[smcgreg 81]

28 minutes ago, asgoodasdead said:

yeah, this is crap. i did nothing but hockey from 12-16. 2 teams year round, hockey camps every summer etc and pretty much hit a wall development-wise. then i took the summer off when i was 16 and played in a summer soccer league instead. came back to my high school and travel teams in the fall and was suddenly the fastest kid on the ice no matter who i was playing with or against. was previously one of the slowest. completely changed my game and i went from 3rd pair D to 1st.

Well, good for you. 

Not sure why you're saying what I said is crap, though.  I don't think I said my kid only did hockey, because he doesn't.  Like I said, he plays lacrosse and is generally active.  Runs, plays a variety of sports and in the warm weather rides a bike quite a bit.  Does strength training in various phases of the year.  He loves to do everything, but loves to skate/play hockey most of all.  In years past, we made a point of making him do other things to develop/maintain general athleticism.  I think if you asked the USAH ADM people, they would agree with the notion that specialization occurs at some point and that there is no doubt 15U is a critical age.  In fact, the 15 camp (the main pipeline to the NTDP selection camp at 16U) would be in July if it wasn't cancelled this year.  Every JR/college scout in the country is there.  How do you propose to impress that crowd in July if you don't skate in the spring/summer?  The top 200 players in the country at 15U are there, good luck.

I agree, you probably focused too much on hockey during your prime developmental years (12-14).  That being said, you are a case = 1 and who knows what happened that summer or what happened to your competition.  We don't know if you actually got faster or if it's all in your head.  It's anecdotal.  If all you did is hockey for 4 years, then went away and did some other dynamic sports AND got a testosterone spurt, I can imagine you were better, faster.  That being said, you played HS and the difference between 15, then 16, then 17 yr olds in HS is pretty much night and day for each year.  It's pretty typical actually to see a freshman struggle, then come back the next year and be a solid contributor and the next year be a dominant player.

Anyway, my point was, at 15U, if your objective is to play juniors and college, it is the most critical year in your pre-junior hockey life.  Does it mean things are over if 15U doesn't go well?  No, but it narrows the choices/opportunities substantially.  The spring/summer of 15U, most top players are doing a lot of high level tournaments/showcases.  Kids that aren't skating aren't ready for these tournaments/showcases.  

In conclusion, I think you misconstrued what I wrote.  That being said, your situation is just that, one situation and difficult to draw concrete conclusions one way or the other. I would also add, I don't think it's necessary to comment in an unsolicited fashion by saying what I wrote is crap based on your personal experience.  Let's be more collegial than that.  I edited my initial response to do so. 

Thanks. 

[IPv6Freely 2097]

1 hour ago, asgoodasdead said:

yeah, this is crap.

In your personal opinion, you mean.