Replacement for the Bauer X:60 Skate

[bthompson1286 5]

Hey everyone,

I’m currently on my last pair of Bauer X:60s. I was able to get 4 pairs of these skates over the years because I loved the fit and feel.  I’ve tested out some carbon boot models, like the Bauer APX and the Bauer 1X. However, the fit in both of those didn’t quite match the X:60, even though they’re still from the Vapor line.

Does anyone have any recommendations for a skate that provides a similar fit to the X:60 but with a carbon boot? I’m also looking for high-end stiffness. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

 

Edited February 25 by bthompson1286

[flip12 718]

It might help if you share more info about what didn't work for you in the fit change between the TechMesh and CURV builds. It also sounds like you haven't tried the new 3 Fit System. If I recall correctly, that started with the second season of the 2X.

Also, what size do you wear in X:60s and how long does a pair tend to last you?

[bthompson1286 5]

13 minutes ago, flip12 said:

It might help if you share more info about what didn't work for you in the fit change between the TechMesh and CURV builds. It also sounds like you haven't tried the new 3 Fit System. If I recall correctly, that started with the second season of the 2X.

Also, what size do you wear in X:60s and how long does a pair tend to last you?

I'm a size 9D.  

The APX and the 1X didn't feel as close to my foot as the x:60.  I may need to try again.  Also the sizing seemed different as well.  I'm a 9D in X:60 but the 9D in the APX felt bigger.

Edited February 25 by bthompson1286

[flip12 718]

14 hours ago, bthompson1286 said:

I'm a size 9D.  

The APX and the 1X didn't feel as close to my foot as the x:60.  I may need to try again.  Also the sizing seemed different as well.  I'm a 9D in X:60 but the 9D in the APX felt bigger.

I believe the big difference for a lot of people in the jump from TechMesh to CURV Vapors was the forefoot having more of a curved shape…I think they called it TrueLasted or something.

But damnit I wish you had said something about running dry months ago. Someone on Kleinanzeigen (German classifieds) sold three or four pairs of barely used if not new 9D TechMesh Vapors a few months ago. They had X7.0, X90, a couple other skins. I was eyeing them with envy because I’m a 9.5D!

In the new Fit System I’m a 9-Fit 1, because of the new toe cap. I’ve only tried them on though, haven’t gone for skate in any Vapors newer than X100 (APX2 gen.).

Edited February 26 by flip12
Fit System reference

[strosedefence34 176]

Alternatively you could delay going to a curve boot even longer by trying to source the Pro Stock Bauer V Cut skates 

https://www.sighockey.com/collections/player-skates/products/bauer-vapor-2x-pro-v-cut-hockey-skates-9-d-a-280-ls-fly-ti

[nisselrm 21]

Order a classic/custom graf?

 

after my disastrous experience with true it may be my next move.

[bthompson1286 5]

An update to this.  So I tried on new skates.  My X:60s fit the same as they always have.  The carbon boots from bauer seem to fit a half size down than my x:60s.  I'm concerned by this because of the holder size change.  When I try the same size in both skates, there is a sizing difference.  A 9 fit1 and a 9D has a length difference 

[bthompson1286 5]

2 hours ago, nisselrm said:

Order a classic/custom graf?

 

after my disastrous experience with true it may be my next move.

what happened with your trues?  I have heard the same thing.  From what I read, trues are not sized correctly at all to be a custom skate

[nisselrm 21]

I came from two pairs of retail makos, which I liked more than any of the 4+ iterations of full custom vapors.

 

the first pair fit great everywhere except the toes. They were at least a size too small. Holders were 288 vs the 296 if always skated on.

 

i sent them back and they made minimum isl improvements, I believe they just pulled the foam from the toe and sent them back.

i still found them unwearable. True refused to continue working with me and just refunded the money.

i have retail hyperlites now which are fine and generally comfortable but frankly feel like a generic boot compared to the true and mako which is to be expected.

At this point, I’m considering retail true skates so I can control the fit in the store but am worried about durability issues from everything I saw with their previous lines.

 

 

[nisselrm 21]

31 minutes ago, bthompson1286 said:

An update to this.  So I tried on new skates.  My X:60s fit the same as they always have.  The carbon boots from bauer seem to fit a half size down than my x:60s.  I'm concerned by this because of the holder size change.  When I try the same size in both skates, there is a sizing difference.  A 9 fit1 and a 9D has a length difference 

They are longer and deeper than the old “D” width. My vapors overwrap worse than they used to with the lack of ankle padding and I have to lace them differently to get forward flex.

was never an issue in my DAA vapors.

[flip12 718]

14 hours ago, bthompson1286 said:

what happened with your trues?  I have heard the same thing.  From what I read, trues are not sized correctly at all to be a custom skate

True's fit was large on the original TF line. That was corrected on all retail lines since then. If their toe cap were as anatomical as Bauer's current toe cap, they'd be closer to 1:1 fit. Right now I fit True 9.5 like a Bauer 9. I wish I could drop to True 9 because the boot fits sloppy compared to my 9.5D Vapors.

[flip12 718]

21 hours ago, nisselrm said:

Order a classic/custom graf?

 

after my disastrous experience with true it may be my next move.

You could get Graf to make a nice Vapor replicant if they still have the materials:

• Ultra G9000 pattern looks like their closest to the Vapor L-cut: https://grafhockey.com/skates/ice/player/ultra-g9000/ (says it's available for custom order).
  • Reposition the eyelets though so spacing is even top to bottom--no extra space between 1st and 2nd eyelets at the cuff. 
• EPP teclite mesh monocoque quarter construction = TechMesh: https://www.purehockey.com/product/graf-custom-ultra-g5-xi-ice-skates-senior/itm/6628-41/
• Oversize traditional Graf toe cap. It's not very anatomical, but going up a size can get you more wiggle room. It's pretty low volume, which is nice.

Details:

1. The tongue is crucial to classic Vapor flex. I'm not sure what they offer that would be closest. Maybe their updated Flex-insert panel tongue that's standard on Ultra 9000, but the last time I saw G75s in a shop with those tongues they didn't have the lace bite protector's stiffness in the upper half that Vapors have had since the Vapor 10 (Vapor 8 tongue was closer to a Supreme tongue flex profile).

2. You would maybe want to ask that they don't reinforce the collar. A lot of Graf skates have an extra stiffener that wraps the top eyelets and the collar, forcing the top of the boot to flare. That's not the case with traditional Vapors.

3. They even used to offer a fully composite outsole, rather than their Texalite outsole. I had G35X with that outsole, and while it was stiff enough, it turned out to be rather disappointing on closer inspection. It was mostly plastic with a carbon weave injection printed fabric to make it look fancier.

4. Depending on which generation of Vapors is your favorite (mine's Vapor 10), you may want to ask for reduced vamping in the first 3-4 eyelets.

Hell, writing this out is getting me tempted 😛🤑

Edited 14 hours ago by flip12
Forgot eyelet positioning

[bthompson1286 5]

shouldn't a bauer 9D x:60 fit the same as a current bauer boot 9d?

[flip12 718]

15 minutes ago, bthompson1286 said:

shouldn't a bauer 9D x:60 fit the same as a current bauer boot 9d?

No. In fact there is no current Bauer 9D. 

Back when there was 9D it was also a lie because the width of the foot last each line was built on was different. When the 3 Fit System came in Bauer started having the updated version of the different fits available in your preference of Vapor or Supreme. Bauer was wishy-washy on the language about Fit 1 being close to a Vapor D, Fit 2 Supreme, and Fit 3 Nexus, with the updates to those fits coming from their 3D scan data. If you search MSH there are similar stories to yours where a happy Vapor D wearer wasn’t able to find the same degree of fit from their size or even a size down in Fit 1. The new toe cap can push people down half a size as well, just like the switch in the forefoot shape from the straight sidewalled TechMesh boot to the curved TrueLasted (or whatever it was called) CURV boot did for some.

Edited 12 hours ago by flip12

[Sniper9 537]

21 minutes ago, bthompson1286 said:

shouldn't a bauer 9D x:60 fit the same as a current bauer boot 9d?

No. It's been so long and different lasts used to make the boots. Even a fit 1 and 2 Mach changed from the ultrasonics fit 1 and 2 (in the toe box), and these are just 2 years apart. 

[Sniper9 537]

Just now, flip12 said:

No. In fact there is no current Bauer 9D. 

Back when there was 9D it was also a lie because the width of the foot last each line was built on was different. When the 3 Fit System came in Bauer started having the updated version of the different fits available in your preference of Vapor or Supreme. Bauer was wishy-washy on the language about Fit one being close to a Vapor D, Fit 2 Supreme, and Fit 3 Nexus, with the updates to those fits coming from their 3D scan data. If you search MSH there are similar stories to yours where a happy Vapor D wearer wasn’t able to find the same degree of fit from their size or even a size down in Fit 1. The new toe cap can push people down half a size as well, just like the switch in the forefoot shape from the straight sidewalled TechMesh boot to the curved TrueLasted (or whatever it was called) CURV boot did for some.

Don't the low to mid tier lines still use D and E?

[flip12 718]

Just now, Sniper9 said:

Don't the low to mid tier lines still use D and E?

Maybe. I don’t look at those. The farthest down I’ve looked was at Vapor X4, and there you have the three options. There’s some argument for looking somewhere below the top of the line for replacing X:60s, but I wouldn’t seriously recommend anyone that’s that used to a boot of X:60’s calibre to go low end.

From just checking X3, it looks like that might not be offered in Fit 1, but our LHS offers them in Fit 2 or Fit 3. I guess if you call Fit 2 a D, you could say D exists, but it doesn’t translate well back to when Bauer labeled their skates D and EE.

 

Edited 12 hours ago by flip12

[bthompson1286 5]

Is this true?