Inline Hockey..contact, non contact...

[MDE3 0]

Having watched both at the elite levels for a while..I have my opinion, but would like to see that of others.......

[notorious#29 0]

Id enjoy roller 100x more (not to say I dont enjoy it) but it would be neat if contact was allowed. There are no leagues around here that offer contact, and most of them are pretty uptight about even seeing you touch someone with a shoulder. I look at Roller as being a step below ice,and I think one of the reasons I do is because its missing a big part of the game of hockey, and that is CONTACT.

[GeeZa32 0]

I dont get the non-check rules either. Most of the roller players ive talked to said, "Wood/SportCourt hurts alot more than ice when you fall!!" I cant help but laugh, because I'd sure as hell want to take a spill on wood/sportcourt over ice, perhaps thats only me though.

I understand some of the reasons why checking is hard to comprehend in roller hockey. One is the level of equipment. Wearing full gear in roller is going to drain you a helluva lot more than on ice because of the tempartures of the respective rinks.

[kukakid 0]

I prefer both pretty equally and play both pretty much all year round at a high level. I believe one of the reasons that hitting is not a part of roller hockey is not because the floor hurts more, but because there is more friction on spoort court than on ice. This can create problems with more injuries due to the fact that your legs and body parts can slide a little bit on ice rather than just sticking and twisting as they are more prone to do in roller hockey.

Also its not like there is NO CONTACT in roller hockey. Go to NARCH nationals or TORHs and stuff that especially and there is plenty of contact. You may not be able to line someone up and demolish them but there is plenty of bumping and grinding.

[MDE3 0]

Just curious Kukakid, where do you get the chance to play full contact?...Do they have a full contact inline league out in Ohio? Or are you playing MLRH, or XIHL?

Also in response to some of the comments about "risk of injury" from a few years of watching my son play both....I think there are overall more minor injuries in the non contact version, due to the tendecy for players to do more illegal stick work in the non contact version, than when body checking is permitted. He definitely gets more welts and bruise from illegal stick work in non contact, and I have seen much more careless use of the stick up high resulting in facial injuries in non contact.

As for the "heat" issue, most players I know in full contact, do not wear any more equipment than they do in non contact.....very few wear shoulder pads...many do not even wear girdles.

[Shorthanded67 0]

Also its not like there is NO CONTACT in roller hockey. Go to NARCH nationals or TORHs and stuff that especially and there is plenty of contact. You may not be able to line someone up and demolish them but there is plenty of bumping and grinding.

Exactly. There really is no such thing as "non-contact" roller hockey (well, possibly air hockey...) I prefer to call most leagues "non-checking."

Totally in agreement with MDE3 about the stickwork in house leagues. I've been timid ever since July when I got carved up ($1300 worth carved up...after insurance paid 80%) by an ankle-bender.

There's a lot of very good players but when you stick them in a NARCh or TORHS, they tend to falter because more physical contact is allowed. I'll admit that I get thrown off my game when I'm hit, but that's just a part of my game I need to work on. I play house league non-check 95% of the year, so I need to learn to change my game up a bit when a tourney rolls around.

Of course a lot of the issue is the interpretation of checking/contact by the referees....

[MDE3 0]

Actually the problem with extra stick work is not limited to house non-check hockey, but is a problem all the way through the "feed chain".....I think people get into the habit of holding guys up with the stick when they cannot take the body, and the refs have just let them get way with it more and more over the years. Kind of defeats the purpose of playing 4 on 4, with no offsides, and no checking.

Actually Tohrs pro allows full check but within 10' of the boards only...kind of a strange rule IMO...and so even in the non "Pro" levels, Tohrs has a fair bit of full checking that happens without being called. Ref habits are hard to change. I believe Narch allows you to "pinch off" and "clear the front of the net", at least "unoffically", so it has a lot more contact as well. Still not the same as guys coming at you full tilt though.

Also when they allow checking in the non check games, I find it is much more difficult for the players, because you often do not know from game to game what will be allowed or not allowed. Also see quite few more hits from behind along the boards, because so many of the refs are not really used to calling the checking version of the game, and when it becomes an "interpretation of the rules" valuation, many are never sure where to draw the line.

[jnicklo 0]

It's hard for me to give a full opinion on this since I've only been playing Hockey for a year (started way late) but being the size I am I'd love to play in a contact roller league.

I think it's a little hard b/c most of us have to get up and go to work the next morning and don't want to feel like we got hit by a semi truck.

[mik3 1]

Also when they allow checking in the non check games, I find it is much more difficult for the players, because you often do not know from game to game what will be allowed or not allowed. Also see quite few more hits from behind along the boards, because so many of the refs are not really used to calling the checking version of the game, and when it becomes an "interpretation of the rules" valuation, many are never sure where to draw the line.

That, IMO, was the problem with PIHA. You never knew what refs you were going to end up with, and what was going to be allowed. One game you'd have the TORHS guys, and they'd let a little more go. Then you'd get guys that ref just NARCH midget/junior and were a lot more strict.

Then there were the games you'd get one of each kind, THOSE were fun.

[Shorthanded67 0]

I think it's a little hard b/c most of us have to get up and go to work the next morning and don't want to feel like we got hit by a semi truck.

Totally agreed. When I was younger, hey bring on the full checking! Now that I know that I'll always play hockey "just for fun" (even though it's 6 games a week for me), I'm quite happy without full checking. Although the nasty stickwork above cost me a couple weeks' pay plus a few days of work....

[MDE3 0]

"Id enjoy roller 100x more (not to say I dont enjoy it) but it would be neat if contact was allowed...... I look at Roller as being a step below ice,and I think one of the reasons I do is because its missing a big part of the game of hockey, and that is CONTACT."

I said at the beginning I have my own opinion but wanted to see what others thought before expressing it.....I knew I should have said nothing...lol

"Notorious".....I tend to agree with your evaluation, as do most of the players I know who play both.

I think part of the problem though, is that what made inline so much fun for everyone and became kind of a "signature" for the sport, were the "sick moves"..... basically the "hot dogging"..something not well respected by the ice contingent.....

Because these moves were made more possible without concern of full contact, people who played that way, were never given much respect by ice players because many of these moves were executed "head down", where the "perp" would get killed doing the same thing in a full check version of the game.

Generally ice hockey players have "team play" engrained in them so early, that they do not tend to spend the same amount of practice time on "hot dog" stuff" as a pure inline player might. .....Not to say there aren't great team players in the inline version, or great players with sick moves in ice hockey....

If inline as a game could keep it's love of the "sick moves" along with playing full check, I think the sport would really appeal more widely to the hockey community. Making those moves under the threat of being physically blasted, inline players would get much more widespread respect.

In fact for the sport to really attract media attention, I think players should keep working on the sickest stuff possible....but do so while imagining that they would have to pull some of these in a full check environment....need to really work on the heads up part, and the skating to go with the moves....now THAT would be entertainment...

My vison for the future of pro inline hockey....make the skills really extreme....make it true entertainment....all while playing the full check version of the game.

[kukakid 0]

Just curious Kukakid, where do you get the chance to play full contact?...Do they have a full contact inline league out in Ohio? Or are you playing MLRH, or XIHL?

I never said I got to play full contact, just that there is contact. Basically I was just making the point that roller hockey is not completely hand's off, but that you can't line anyone up and take them out either, it really lies somewhere in between

As far as playing the body is concerned everywhere I have every played from house to adult to Narch Junior Gold division, I have been allowed to play the body and keep someone from going by on defense. I did not send them to the ground but I also did not just poke the puck away. I simply follow their body movements and keep my position, when the time is right I may step in a little bit or they may run in to me, I don't get my hands up, I don't purposely try to send them to the ground, I simply ride them off the puck. Mission accomplished, my team gets the puck and we go the otherway.

I'm not saying that having full contact is better than no contact or vice-versa but it seems to me the current state of quality roller hockey is a fairly good compromise. You can still have a physical aspect by bodying people along the boards a little bit and battling in from of the net for the most part but you can also use finesse and quick passing along with plenty of skating.

As I said before I really don't prefer ice or roller over one another, each has its distinct advantages, which suits me perfectly as I see them as two distinct games. There is plenty of crossover but there is also a world of difference.

[MDE3 0]

Sorry..I misunderstood when you said you "got to play both" .... There are lot's who agree with you including the founder of the sport of inline hockey...Charley Yoder.....

It's just from the players I know who play PIHA/Tours/Narch Pro, and XIHL, MLRH, I find most feel there is more credibility to the full check game..they get more excited playing that version...of course the players who play "both" would say that too.....as they obviously like the full contact or they wouldn't be there.

Other than all the justifications I made above, I think the presence of the full check element, makes players better in many ways earlier on in their careers, and would make the sport more credible all around....The real trick is to keep the free flowing spirit of the game and all the moves intact, while borrowing a little more from ice. Permitting full check, but keeping the goon side out of the game is also a challenge.

I like the hot dog stuff in inline..I think it is a major attraction for the sport...if we add the full check, will we lose this part of inline, and end up with ice hockey on wheels?...

Personally i think by regulating the age at which full checking can be taught, and the levels where it is permitted(by age and skill), but still have coaches encourage kids to learn all the fun moves too, you could end up with the best of both worlds.

[Chadd 916]

All of the hot dog skills slow down the game. Nobody can skate as quickly as a good hard pass and the more open nature of inline hockey lends to a slower product, even at elite levels.

[MDE3 0]

LOl..well we can once again agree to disagree....I am not proposing "hot dogging" at the expense of team play, but to expand team play....Making a great move to get clear to make that pass..a la CJ Yoder. Making a great spin move like Johnny Pinheiro does so often with the puck to keep the play alive. Jumping high over a defensman to get around him into the open for a pass...a la Jay Mazer in his prime. All these could be more widely incorporated into the game to make it more fun to watch. These and a lot more "tricks". I am not just thinking about "Michigan's and 360"'s and all their variations in front of the net....

Executing these moves successfully in a full check environment is just so much more meaningfull, athletic, and above all entertaining than in the non contact version. For the sport ot ever gain real fan attention, it needs that kind of attraction...to get that good at a "Pro level" ya gotta start somewhere lower.

The elements that slow down the inline game, are:

The old regroup repeatedly to set up the perfect breakout philosophy...as has been so widely and successfully used in the pro's for years..as well as with the more experienced Narch youth teams.

The "bouncing rolling puck" which is becoming less of an issue as better surfaces find ther way into new venues, was also a major contributor to the slowness of the game flow.

The nature of the skating speed when less grip was available...players would not turn as sharp, would not stop and change direction as quicly, not be able to accelerate as fast....all this is changing due to impoved wheel and floor technology.....making the game faster.

Just for example...at a skills competition at Extremes recently, where the floor is 195 x 85, the fastest lap time was 14.3 sec...not bad for minor league roller hockey.

I think the hot dogging of inline hockey is a major part of the appeal to kids, and should be encouraged, not discouraged...while still teaching team play....they are not mutually exclusive. Need to keep the "fun" in the game too...

[Chadd 916]

The problem is most kids waste all their time trying to learn the hot dog stuff and not basic skills. That goes for ice as well as inline. I see kids working on incredibly difficult breakaway moves for extended periods yet never work on their wrist shot or power skating.

[jnicklo 0]

*sigh*

kids....

[Eazy_b97 1]

I don't think either is really better. I've never seen or played full-checking in-line, but to be honest, I don't think I'd prefer it. If anyone has a link I'd love to see it. I would think it'd create more "dangles" because defenders would be more open to running at an opponent than to sit and wait to intercept a pass. I find the best way to play non-contact in-line is almost like a basketball philospophy where you control the outsides and wait for the change, purely a possession game. I don't think this would be possible in a full-contact league. For me the "possession game" gives in-line the majority of it's appeal. Maybe because I was brought up watching it, and now appreciate it. I don't think full checking in-line would be a bad thing, I just think it'd be a different game altogether. Neither of the games better or worse just different (I know, pussy answer)

[MDE3 0]

As far as more 'Dangles" in full contact....I don't think so.....the tendency is to move the puck a bit quicker as it is in ice.

In addition the full contact leagues use the same rules as the old RHI, where there is an offside rule, as well as "clearing"(icing). Offside is not like ice....The rule is fairly simple, you cannot pass across the center red line to a teamate, you must carry it, although a team mate can already have crossed the line before the puck....you just cannot pass to him.

If during a power play the puck is cleared out across the center redline by the defending team, the team with the power play must have every player "touch up" before the puck recrosses the redline..otherwise it is offside too. If the team with the powerplay moves the puck back over the redline themselves, no "touch up" is required.

"Clearing" is the same as icing, but requires touching.

[notorious#29 0]

All of the hot dog skills slow down the game. Nobody can skate as quickly as a good hard pass and the more open nature of inline hockey lends to a slower product, even at elite levels.

I agree with you Chadd, and the game would speed up more if more contact was allowed. Then you wont see fowards trying to do the "Michigan" or any of those other "Hot Dog" moves right in front of a D-man since there is now a threat of that D-man hitting him, and alot more passing and speed would result. Also the moves would be 10x more rewarding and cool looking knowing that guy "hot dogged" while under pressure. Just my 2 cents.................

[jnicklo 0]

Contact would also toughen up the pansies in roller.

It drives me nuts when you give even the slightest nudge to someone and they freak out and say you "checked" them. Crybabies....

Personally, I'd like to see some sort of checking rule implemented into roller hockey where only checking within a certain feet from the boards is allowed.

[MDE3 0]

That rule is how it is played for TOHRS Pro level, contact within 10' of the boards only, although personally I prefer the full court contact

What I would suggest to really improve the game, is to eliminate all stick checking on the body, and blatant grabbing, but allow full contact.

However the limit of "full contact" would be "from the shoulders forward"..ie 180 degrees forward of a line drawn through the shoulders. NO EXCEPTIONS...that would mean if someone is charging a player to wipe him out, and the player with the puck turns his back, the player intending to issue the check must be in sufficient control of his skating to hold up...no contact from the back would be allowed..period.

A penalty for stick on body interference should be emphasized....while technically already a penalty, it is rarely if ever called, and this form of interference slows down the game of hockey in all it's forms. Of course blatant grabbing of an opponent must be called equally.

Good skaters would be rewarded for their abilities, and teams who depend on weaker skaters who are currently allowed to use their sticks to prevent this, would be penalized.

In the short term I imagine there would be a ton of protests to this enforcement of the current rules..

So much of this occurs, not just on the puck carrier, but away from the play....under the tactical technique of "manning up".... that it has become ingrained as "part of the game". Stick on stick checking would be still be allowed away from the play, as long as it did not directly interfere with the skating, and occurred below the waist.

In the long term, skating position and agility would become the key attributes, and faster crisper play would soon become the norm. If the threat of a "big hit" causes a player to turn away or turn his back, then the real intent of "checking" has already been accomplished...the purpose of preventing an opponent from advancing the puck in his/her chosen direction..their advance has now been "checked".

The other long term effect this would have on the game, would be to somewhat nullify the physical advantage of being bigger and stronger, where this advantage is so often used for illegal interference. Applying these rules as I have proscribed would bring the speed and agility of the smaller player back to the forefront of the game, along with a significant increase in excitement. David and Goliath style play.

This would also encourage more youth to enrole in and stay with the game of hockey, when they discover they are not going to be 6' 2" and 220......

Technically these rules are already in place...it remains to apply them vigorously. The same principles could well be applied to "improve the NHL" as well.

[jnicklo 0]

You sort of touched on this in a way but I feel that if checking was allowed in roller hockey that it'd give the bigger players (like me) more purpose. Seeing as I've only been playing for a year, im not a good skater. I get most of my goals from either tip ins in front of the net, one timers or just a flat out good shot.

I rely on my shooting more then anything.

But if checking were allowed, I'd feel a bit more purpose and a tad more competitive if I'd be able to just plaster some poor sap along the boards.

In other words, checking would make it a bit easier for bigger, slower players to play roller hockey.

[MDE3 0]

Assuming that "poor sap" had equal skating skills....But you are right...the full contact adds the appeal to a larger, but maybe slower player who feels it helps them contribute more if for no other reasons than pure intimidation. I was a "big" player in my early hockey days playing youth hockey...at 12 I was 195lbs and 5' 11" tall..intimidation was a major part of my game when I played defence (I was also a goalie).

However as you progress up the "feed chain" in the sport, you will find that just size alone is less of an advantage, without picking up your agility as well.

Because of some limited involvement I have with the elite versions of the sport, I tend to look at the marketing appeal of the game ie "what do I like to watch most?", with an eye to what would be the best product to "sell" to an audience, as well as the actual enjoyment of playing it. This tends to color my views somewhat too.

The application of the rules I am proposing does not eliminate all the physical advantages of being a "larger" player, but they curtail these advantages to stay within the spirit and intent of the original rules of the sport.

[Aussie Joe 0]

All of you guys have some really interesting points. In the IIHF Governed league of Aus..... Australia Inline Hockey Association (AILHA) The higher the div you play the more lax the rules are.

For eg I play senior A grade (2nd highest grade possible) When I moved from B grade there was a huge diff in terms of phsysicaltiy. To me at the beginging it seemed like allot of players were getting away with checks. The more experienced I got the more I realised they were actually good clean "hits" so to speak because no one was getting injured.

What really gets me annoyed is when someone who are in their first season cop a really good stick hook from me (hooking the part of the stick between the top and bottom hands) Whines to the refs and I get called for slashing!!! Last night was a classic example where there were two B grade Refs doing the A grade game instead of the lower age group. The rules allow for it in black and white but some ppl just think when you go up a division that its just passing, skating and shooting that gets harder and not the hits!

Allowing "small hits" in the higher grades is what makes the sport how it is today. I don't know about you guys state side but Im all for it! *Big thumbs up!*