CCM RBZ 100 Skates - Canada?

[colins 246]

Anyone know what the deal is with the RBZ 100 skate in Canada? Both Prohockeylife and Sportchek (Hockey Experts) seem to be missing the RBZ 100 from their lineup. They have the RBZ, RBZ 90, RBZ 80, and lower models. But no RBZ 100.

I find it strange that this situation exists - it means you have the choice of a $700+ RBZ or a $350 RBZ 90, but no middle ground with the RBZ 100 missing. I asked the staff at Prohockeylife in Calgary yesterday and they said they aren't carrying the RBZ 100. Surely that can't be the case - maybe it's just a supply issue since the release just happened recently??

Colin

[AIREAYE 248]

The RBZ Control would be an upgraded RBZ 90/100. Source for Sports exclusive : http://www.thehockeyshop.com/ccm-rbz-control-senior-skates.html

[PMurphy17 25]

Anyone know what the deal is with the RBZ 100 skate in Canada? Both Prohockeylife and Sportchek (Hockey Experts) seem to be missing the RBZ 100 from their lineup. They have the RBZ, RBZ 90, RBZ 80, and lower models. But no RBZ 100.

I find it strange that this situation exists - it means you have the choice of a $700+ RBZ or a $350 RBZ 90, but no middle ground with the RBZ 100 missing. I asked the staff at Prohockeylife in Calgary yesterday and they said they aren't carrying the RBZ 100. Surely that can't be the case - maybe it's just a supply issue since the release just happened recently??

Colin

National Sports in Ontario is carrying the RBZ 100 & RBZ in 10 locations. Although we had to stream line our volume based on the lack of sales in previous launches.

The reality in high skates is that the amount models and commitment needed to stock them is far higher than the sales you receive from them. Their are far too many high models being created in too many price point and stores will be forced to make choices based on sales history. If customers don't buy a certain brand or model it makes little sense to keep buying none sellers.

[Gummer12 134]

Maybe he doesn't have $700 to spend?

[Gummer12 134]

Agreed, it's a great incentive to move more of the high end skates. Just hope it works well.

[jimmy 194]

He's in Calgary, but what you posted makes sense.

Still, RBZ is the best deal with the $150 gift card.

Usually promotions like $150 cards cannot be used with the top end gear that has MAP minimum pricing by the manufacturer. Read the fine print, it prob doesnt apply to the RBZ's.

[AIREAYE 248]

"Redeemable on your next purchase of any CCM product at Pro Hockey Life. RBZ youth, RBZ 70, RBZ 60 and RBZ 50 skates are not applicable to this offer. Offer valid August 1st, 2013 through to September 15th, 2013. "

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

Usually promotions like $150 cards cannot be used with the top end gear that has MAP minimum pricing by the manufacturer. Read the fine print, it prob doesnt apply to the RBZ's.

You can sell the skate at whatever price you want in store to get around MAP (as long as you don't advertise it or put it on a website) but of course, that means lower margins, so why bother?

There is a retailer in MN who sells their skates at stupid prices. They won't even tell you the price over the phone.

[jimmy 194]

You can sell the skate at whatever price you want in store to get around MAP (as long as you don't advertise it or put it on a website) but of course, that means lower margins, so why bother?

There is a retailer in MN who sells their skates at stupid prices. They won't even tell you the price over the phone.

True, in the store you can sell at any price you want, but if you advertise a promotion on a MAP item, you could be crossing the line. Still it's up to the manufacturer if they want to pursue it. IMO, they let the big guys get away with ever they want. "Oh, I'm sorry I had a MAP item advertised on my site at 25% les than MAP, I'll correct that right away". In the meantime, they sold out of the item at 25% lees than MAP, accomplishing what they intended with no consequences. And the manufacturers wonder why we brick and morters aren't buying as much as we did before.

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

Right - but a gift card with a purchase does not violate MAP.

MAP was instituted to not allow manufacturers to take advantage of their discount to sell skates cheaper than stores that don't get that same discount.

Can't say I've seen a situation in which an online merchant has done that.

[jimmy 194]

1 = The majors are brick and mortars; don't hate the playa for being a large business/growing his business. And why are they not considered brick and mortars in your mind; is it because they have a website?

2 = Truth be told, you are part of the "short side" of the 80/20. You are part of the 80% that do 20% of their business and they would love to shut you down, if only they could. Not trying to be an asshole here, but, those are the facts of the business today. These companies are looking to grown numbers on a large scale, not through a smaller, service oriented shop like yours. The game has changed and the smaller guy like you, who is trying to do it right, needs to sit down and look at doing things differently.

3 = You think things are bad now? Wait until Bauer and the others start selling direct. And don't think that day is far off! Then what?

BPS, IMHO, will be the first to do it in hockey. They don't have many more companies that they are going to buy. If the opportunity presents itself, I'm sure they will, however, they've certainly diversified their portfolio and now need to right a few bad ships. They have a complete head to toe plus gamewear hockey company (Bauer & Mission), they are selling soccer direct to consumers/associations (Inaria), they are in lacrosse very poorly, which they will turn around (Maverik), and finally, are getting into baseball/softball with their purchase of Combat.

BPS' way to increase revenue for their shareholders is going to be going direct. Quite frankly, I'm shocked Easton-Bell didn't do this years ago when they went public. Reebok for awhile did on reebok.com and a few of the larger retailers complained (it was 5k product and lower). Reebok blinked and pulled it off.

I'll step off of my soap box now...

I don't have a problem with them selling direct. I hope the customer likes to look at the just the 2" picture on a website. For now, the customer can go down to their LHS and feel and touch and try on a item. When they can't anymore, the market will change. The so-called "majors" built their business only because consumers could sneak down to their LHS to see, feel and try on the equipment before buying it online. When that option is gone, it wil be interesting to see how things turn out. I love the story I heard of a expert guy who was hired out of his local LHS to work at one of the so-called majors to work in their "brick and morter" store. After he was there a while he was counseled/chewed out by the investor owners for spending to much time fitting the customer for the right skates. In so many words he was told, stop spending so much time, just put them in a pair of F'n skates and move them out the door

[raganblink 82]

You can sell the skate at whatever price you want in store to get around MAP (as long as you don't advertise it or put it on a website) but of course, that means lower margins, so why bother?

There is a retailer in MN who sells their skates at stupid prices. They won't even tell you the price over the phone.

And they do that and get away with it because they have the max discount with Bauer. So they're still making 25-30% on skates even though they are 15-20% off. The volume they're doing is insane, and they make up for any lost % on apparel sales. Its a good business model, they have a monopoly more or less on that entire town on skates and top-end equipment. But its also screwing over themselves (they'd still make money selling APX2s at 750) and hurting other business up there.

Its dumb. The price wars in the Twin Cities are going to end up killing off half a dozen shops within a 5 hour drive.

The only way to combat the price wars that are going on in markets is to implement Mandatory Price Enforcement. Sure there would still be ways and people who get around it, but, for the most part they could actually enforce their retailers to sell their product at its intended price.

For instance some products were absolute flops this last year and we had no choice but to sell it at a discount from day 1. A) wasn't worth the price it was supposed to be, especially compared to what other manufactures had at that price and B) was already at a lower price to begin with in the Twin Cities.

One way to help without implementing enforced pricing would be to simply offer less price points. Bauer is doing this with the Vapor and Nexus sticks. They've cut back on how many models there are so that shops theoretically should have all of the models. Furthermore shops that are smaller will simply have to decide to pass up on entire lines.

I wish that one day we will see price enforcement to make it a fair playing ground for everyone. There are plenty of shops that try to do things by the books but when markets start to say screw it and cut off points from a product in order to move it or in order to compete than it has a ripple effect and essentially screws over everyone and instead of making a living off of gear selling X amount we're having to sell X + 15% to maintain that same income.

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

I totally agree with you. It's a mess in the MSP market.

[raganblink 82]

The reps don't care either because to them they're selling a ton of gear and making more money.

If something can't sell at 799 than maybe it shouldn't be 799? Or if sticks are marked from day 1 at 219 or 199 than maybe they shouldn't be sold at 259/249/229?

Its so stupid. If t hey just bought less they wouldn't have to get rid of it at a huge discount and end of the day they'd make more money, but everyone is trying to one up each other. We're close to MSP but still far enough that we're not effected THAT much, I feel bad for the shops north of the cities where there players are going in to town 1-2X a month. They definitely got to be hurting on top-end sales.

[interpathway 9]

This thread is far more interesting than the title led me to believe

[colins 246]

This thread is far more interesting than the title led me to believe

Yes, it certainly went on a tangent from the original posting. I've been on the road and haven't had time to respond to the thread since the first post.

Aireaye - Thanks for the info on the RBZ Control. I'll be on the lookout for it locally.

JunkYardAthletic - The $150 promo wasn't appealing to me as I was just visiting Calgary, there's no ProHockeyLife here in St. John's and I didn't need anything else at the moment for $150 and even if I did I didn't want to have to lug it back home with me on the plane. It is a good deal though for people who shop regularly at ProHockeyLife and are interested in the RBZ line.

I guess the summary is - too many retailers are making too many skates to hit too many price points, and many of the traditional and even the larger brick and mortars are ill equipped to carry them all. Even in Calgary (a fairly large hockey market by Canadian standards) the SportChek at CrossIronMills had only a handful of closeout model skates, and the location downtown at Stephen Ave has no skates at all but does have a small hockey section. It seems like the big equipment manufacturers are shooting themselves in the foot trying to create too many different lines of skates - each line having too many individual price points.

As others have pointed out, once it gets to the point that you can't walk into a local hockey shop to actually try the skate on, what difference does it make how many models are out there online - you'll really get no choice at all since you'll be playing russian roulette with form/fit/function buying them sight unseen!

Colin

[PMurphy17 25]

The only way to combat the price wars that are going on in markets is to implement Mandatory Price Enforcement. Sure there would still be ways and people who get around it, but, for the most part they could actually enforce their retailers to sell their product at its intended price.

For instance some products were absolute flops this last year and we had no choice but to sell it at a discount from day 1. A) wasn't worth the price it was supposed to be, especially compared to what other manufactures had at that price and B) was already at a lower price to begin with in the Twin Cities.

One way to help without implementing enforced pricing would be to simply offer less price points. Bauer is doing this with the Vapor and Nexus sticks. They've cut back on how many models there are so that shops theoretically should have all of the models. Furthermore shops that are smaller will simply have to decide to pass up on entire lines.

I wish that one day we will see price enforcement to make it a fair playing ground for everyone. There are plenty of shops that try to do things by the books but when markets start to say screw it and cut off points from a product in order to move it or in order to compete than it has a ripple effect and essentially screws over everyone and instead of making a living off of gear selling X amount we're having to sell X + 15% to maintain that same income.

Price Enforcement is called Price Fixing, which is completely illegal on both sides of the north american border. Look it up. Technically it is illegal for a rep to call a retailer and question the price they are selling it at. Also see Cartel pricing which applies to some of the stuff that is happening right now. Recently in Canada gas retailers and Chocolate Bar manufacturers have been hit with fines for price fixing. (30 millionfor chocolate bars is a hell of a lot of sales to make up)

I hate to pick on your Rag but some of what your wishing for sounds an awful lot like a thing called "communism"

If you had to sell products at a reduced price because they are poor sellers or price pointed wrong from day 1, that sounds more like weak purchasing that has nothing to do with other retailers.

[raganblink 82]

Fair enough, I see what you are saying.

I must be mistaken then on the enforced pricing of some items in the golf industry - I believe it is Ping that does this. At least the several shops I have been in recently told me there was nothing they could take off on Ping drivers and they pretty much told me that its out of their hands. They could give me a discount on every other companies drivers, current ones, but not Ping ones. Several shops in my area told me this so it just wasn't one. I had also heard about certain golf companies years ago that did this with secret shoppers and they would place a big penalty on the store if they were under cutting the MSRP.

Some of the things that we've had to reduce the price on since day 1 you'd be shocked at. It has everything to do with other retailers (Minnesota ones) as that is what they price them at launch as. And we're close enough that the savings would definitely be there for them to spend $80 in gas to go up there on the weekend, so selling somethings at full-price is not an option. Yes we have loyal customers who would buy things from us if we're at MAP and other stores 4 hours away are way less than that, but there are plenty of customers that will see the savings and tell us to match (or at least come within 5%) or we lose the sale.

A vast majority (95%+) of the things we don't have at MAP are items that normally, would be at MAP, but have to be reduced to compete with them. The other items we have below MAP I admit were purchasing errors on our part. There are a couple product we have in here that we messed up on. I'll put it this way - 3 years ago before the price wars began we had every item in here at MAP, and we had zero issues selling it. Now with having to undercut items to compete with the MSP region, those items that would have sold anyways are selling out faster, and our orders have to be more precise and honestly smaller so we don't gamble wrong and pick a loser. It also makes it worthless ordering the stick or skate right below the top end product since they are so close to each other with competing with MSP.

They already have price enforcement (MAP) for online retailers, what difference would it make if they did the same for LHS? The way I see it, the price wars are there because one retailer ordered too much product, got max discount, and decided to screw over everyone else and discount product so everyone would buy it from them unless the others followed suit. And it has been doing this year in year out now so its kind of the pickle that we are in. Its going to stay that way in MSP until one of the companies does something or they all come to a truths and gentlemen's agreement to sell product for lets say max discount of 10%.