smcgreg

Glad he was able to land on his feet. I hear you'll have to deal with Darren though... ;-) My son Liam was asking what was going to happen to Darren and Jose today. I told him Darren would be at Troy and Jose would be at Novi. He said, "Darn it. That would have been great if JR, Jose and Darren were all at the same store". That's the kind of impression the TH people from around here have made on him. How many 11 yr olds look forward to seeing the staff at their LHSs? On the TH front, I think they made a mistake closing AA. People were just starting to realize it was there. Seriously, last winter, people who frequented the Cube still didn't even know it was there. I think one more year and it would have been as profitable as Novi or better. Lots of underserved population in and west of Ann Arbor with nowhere else to go now. Not to mention tournaments, etc. but.. I digress. Back to the topic at hand... Novi still isn't all that close. With 3 people in the family all skating 4 or more times per week (actually my daughter's in figure skating too, so, add another pair of skates), without having a reliable shop in the neighborhood, it's really not practical to have to go out of town for a sharpening. I'll give it some time to see how the logistics can work out before pulling the trigger though. I'll probably try running up to Novi a couple times or having Darren take care of my steel at Troy since he'll be on the ice with me a couple times/week. Still, not as handy as what I've had the past two years. I'm pretty spoiled right now.

Given that it appears my local TH will be closing, I guess I'll be getting one of these. I don't trust the sharpenings anywhere else that's close to me and I'm not driving an hour to JR's shop. So, since this machine seems to be pretty consistent, it should pay for itself within about a year, if not, two. Plus the convenience of having it done when I want, the way I want.

Well, I've tried everything. .... literally. My Mako IIs are Frakenskates right now and fantastic for my feet. It took me a while to get mine dialed in and I've had Makos or Mako IIs since two weeks after they came out ... what, 3 or 4 yrs ago. My point was simply that I can see pretty much anyone (narrow or wide heel) having heel lock issues since the heels open up so much with baking. As you should probably know, unlike other skates, these are not really foot type specific. That means, whatever the type of foot, they can fit you, but at the same time, whatever the type of foot, you can have issues as well. I'll be buying two pairs (M8 and MII) to carry my through the next 5 years as Easton disappears and cross my fingers that Bauer will incorporate the technology, at least moldability, if nothing else. Ironically, probably the greatest innovation MLX had, the adjustable holders, didn't even carry over to the Makos, so, I'm not holding my breath. **edit: the other point I was making was, although I don't have heel lock issues when I step on the ice, after skating a while (especially now with this heat and humidity) I do have them since the skates get so damn wet and my heels slip a bit. Still, all in all, a nit picky problem.

Lucky you ;-)

Actually, the heel can be pretty wide as it opens up with baking. I have a fairly wide heel (wide foot overall) and I have issues with heel lock as well. It's particularly bad this time of year with the heat since they get so darn wet and my feet start sloshing around after 30-45 min. Still, best skate there is. Anyway, my point was, I have a wide heel and the Mako II can be a bit sloppy for me as well.

Yes, but times and temps are on the box, are they not?

Well, considering the inventor of the skate promotes doing it in a conventional oven, not sure what the issue is. I've baked two different pairs of Makos a couple times each in my oven at home with no issues. I used to sweat over home baking, but not anymore (at least skates).

Agreed, I was in a Supreme E and wear a Mako D. Also, you MUST try them on after baking or there is no relationship to how they will fit after baking. I couldn't get my foot into the 6.5 D before baking. It was perfect after.

Well, the shots are already hard enough to hurt at 10 in the wrong spots. A AAA kid dropped him like a sack of potatoes in a 3v3 tournament with a slapshot that hit him on the hip and missed the pads. It hasn't happened on the foot yet, but the time will come............. I wouldn't be surprised if he started taking some that hurt on the foot this year. If I recall, isn't your son the one that "over pronates" and he's in Makos? Do you get the blade aligned? or has he grown out of it?

Kids always got bullied. That's a good way to put it though. A badge of honor for blocking shots. His home white jersey looks like he's a target in the shooting range with all the black puck marks on it. Against much better teams, when we're pinned in the zone, he's made more saves than the goalies. He likes to show that jersey off. Granted, it would be nice not to get pinned in the zone..... So, maybe that will be the way to go with it once the time comes.

or.. one could subscribe to the old addage, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." ;) Also, I just bought him his first pair of Junior skates. Went from paying $150 for the last year's top of the line to paying $250 for last year's top of the line. Custom VHs is a much more substantial investment, epecially when he likes what he's in. When I considered Makos for him, it was the M8 option. Heck, does VH even have a junior skate? It would be a tough pill to swallow to shell out $800 for a skate that might only be used for 1 yr or less.

Since this seems to have gotten off track a bit, I'll defend my son, then let it go. I made a glib statement for humor's sake, not wanting to elaborate too much. So, here goes, ...as for function and all that goes with it, for him, that is the number 1 consideration. I mentioned I held off on trying to have him switch to Makos because of shots, but his skating is exceptional in Vapors and I know he would be very reticent to potentially mess that up. Function is #1 to him and what contributes to that is most important. So, with the shot blockers, I was being a bit glib, but they are a tough sell because they are preventative. What 10 yr old or 11, or 12, etc... believes he is going to be hurt by a shot on the foot. Once he starts taking them to the foot more regularly and they are hard enough to get his attention, then maybe an easier sell. The other part of it though is, I'm sure he would be concerned, in fact, I know he would, about putting anything on his skate that will potentially make him slower or mess up mechanics. Whether or not it would, it doesn't matter if he thinks it would. So, again, that would be a tough part of the sell at this point. I'm sure if he's playing JRs in 8-10 years and taking slapshots to the foot every game, shot blockers may be an attractive option. Heck, next year they're taking slap shots and some of them are pretty good, so, maybe it will be that soon. He's a level headed kid who doesn't want to look like a dork, but is primarily concerned with playing welll and what will specifcally help that.

Have you ever tried to tell a 10 yr old to wear something like that? Good luck.

Misaligned steel. The padding had broken down quite a bit though, but other than that, no major issues. To the reps credit, the misalignment was minor and one shop told me they shouldn't be warrantied. Another said they should and pushed for it from the rep. He agreed and I got the IIs. I skate a lot and they're holding up ok. Granted, since I just wrote this, I'm sure they'll start falling apart.... damn... jinxed.

I've been on Mako IIs for about a year, skating 4+ times per week (sometimes 7+) with no manufacturer defect. I had Mako Is for over a year before that and had them warrantied. I can't imagine trying to go back to Supremes, which I came from. I've put them on a couple times and tried to skate in them just to see and went straight back to the locker room and changed back. I have Supremes converted to inlines and can't skate in them. Now that I've been in Makos for over two years, I'm spoiled and can't imagine going back to a more traditional boot. The only gripe I have with them is that shots hurt. I've hesitated to put my son in them, because he's a defenseman and blocks a lot of shots and I don't want him breaking a foot. For me though, I can step out of the way in beer league or drop in. Still, the ones I don't get out of the way of hurt.

Sorry, but there's no simpler answer to your question. I came from Supreme Tones and went down a half size in length and from E to D. They are so moldable, it is very difficult to know how they will fit without actually trying them on and baking them. If there is no possible way to try them on, I would suggest first trying to find a mail order that will accept them on return if not sharpened. They are made to bake several times, so, you should be able to bake them yourself and see how they fit. If they don't fit, don't sharpen them and send back.

Nope. My feet look like cooked sausages bulging out of the casing in mine and no issues.

I do. In fact, I have 55 flex on mine and still leave the top undone. I even tried the top 2 undone, but that was a bit too much. I came from Tones always leaving the top 2 undone. I should say though, that I've backed off the aggressive pitch on mine. I think if you give enough flex at the ankle, you don't need the aggressive pitch to "force" you into a good skating position. If you have the fore/aft flex at the ankles, you can get the ankle/knee bend on a more neutral pitch. With the aggressive pitch, I always felt unstable when battling on the boards or really doing anything where I wasn't moving at speed. My 2 cents.

Hi SMU, I think we've corresponded on this topic before. To address your point about not having flat feet, but still "pronating" in skates, I have a similar situation. I actually have fairly high arches in both feet, but only "pronate" in the right skate. After a fair bit of work on the skates and evaluating myself, the source of my issue has been a progressive valgus (knock kneed) evolution of my right leg with age. Because my right knee bends medially (toward the middle) it causes my center of mass to be over the inside of the skate versus the left side, which is not valgus. Further, it is exacerbated when I bend my knees. My point is, you may not have flat feet or even "pronate" in shoes, but due to other anthropometric changes with age, your center of mass may have changed over the years relative to the skate blade. I've tried many of the things you have, and most recently, I've placed about 3 mm of shimms on the outside/lateral part of the skate between the boot and holder. This has effectively raised the right skate so much that I have had to go with two different pitches on my Mako IIs. I have a (-1 profile) on the left and a (-3 profile) on the right. So, one thing to think about is if you are shimming, that may be throwing off your balance between sides apart from the "pronation" issue. (I put pronation in quotes, because in my case, it's really not pronation, but results in the same effect). To get back to the blade alignment issue, I have the same problem in my Mako IIs. I have put in T-nuts so, I can easily shim or remove and was planning to use them to facilitate moving the blade medially (toward the center line), but there just isn't enough room on the boot to drill new holes and move the holder. So, trying to think about different skates now that may allow me to do so. I love the fit of the Mako though, so, it would be tough to change, but I am very sick of not being over my blade on one foot, when things are perfect on the other. I'll keep you posted on anything I come up with. Please do the same.

I had 6.5D in the original and got a 6.5 D in warranty replacement. They fit exactly the same.

Ummm... I'm not sure about this. I don't think the Makos can be stretched. One of the gurus like JR or Jimmy might be able to chime in on this, but I'd hate to get them too small and not be able to stretch them. On all other points I agree though. Baked mine several times and used the heat gun further. Very moldable skates. In fact, initially when I had a couple local hot spots and contacted Scott at VH about custom skates, he actually encouraged me to "fiddle" with my Makos since they are so moldable. To me, that is a testament to Scott and his character, but also a comment on the level of moldability of the Makos. Anyway, before buying small, I'd confirm the stretchability.

I wouldn't expec the Mako 8 to fit differently than the Mako II, but have no experience with the 8. That being said, sounds like 6.5 D is the way to go to me. A bit of room in the 6.5 and toe cramped in 6.0. Not sure what else there is to say. I suppose if the 6Ds weren't baked all the way, they might open up a bit more. Not sure why they wouldn't bake them all the way though. that's the selling point. Sorry I don't have more to offer.

Did you have them baked? When baked, the heel will open up and give you more room in the toe. I came from Supremes, 6.5 E (custom) since my foot is too wide for D and too narrow for EE. I wear Mako 6.5 D. I'm guessing you are probably a 6.5 D in the mako and if you have them baked when you try them, they will be perfect. When I was trying them on, I couldn't get my foot into the 6.5 or 7 until they were baked. The 7.5 felt good unbaked, but the salesguy was good in suggesting the bake and that they would open up. I know some shops aren't good about baking when trying on, but they open up sooooo much, you need to bake them to know.

I know you weren't replying to me, but I agree on this. As I indicated earlier, if profiling/sharpener consistency wasn't an issue/concern, profiling is probably the better approach. Some problems can't be fixed by profiling (e.g. pronation), though, so, sometimes shims are the only approach aside from boot surgery.

I did the T-nuts in collaboration with the guy who works on my skates at my local Total Hockey. I got the idea from various threads on this site that discuss the t-nut approach. The only thing I needed help with was pulling the rivets, once that was done, the t-nuts are cake. I picked mine up (the t-nuts and screws) from Home depot. After doing that, I use thin cutting board material (HDPE) for shims and can add/remove as desired. Ultimately, I want to move my holder in (medially) on one skate, but leaving that until the last and probably until Makos are on clearance, so, if I muck it up I can pick up a replacement cheap. For now, I'm close to the way I want things, but that holder needs to be moved on one skate. How I measured it was by watching the two skate guys (one of whom you may "know" from this site ;) who are quite accomplished measuring the pitch with a micrometer while in the holder. Aftondad's approach may be a bit more accurate, but the bottom line is that we've both established, independently with accomplished skate tech guys that the ES4 is definitely pitched out of the box. To Aftondad's point, my ES4 replacement steel from Easton had a similar (~ +1) pitch out of the box. To your final point, your observations are very much like my feelings. That being said, the Makos fit so well out of the box for me (with a caveat below), combined with the fact that I bought into the "hype" about it was a better approach to skating, that I ignored the "bad" feelings I had about skating and just thought I needed to adapt. I think I probably have adapted somewhat and who knows, it may have helped. But there is no doubt that even after skating a lot on the Makos for 2 years, after neutralizing the pitch of the runner, I am skating much, much better. Bear in mind that even with a neutral runner, it's still a pretty aggressive skate, with ~ +2 on the holder alone. *one other thing I would note regarding your observation: I got some achilles pain initially from the Mako. I thought it was a normal break in pain, so, let it go. It got very bad though and I now have "scarred" achilles. (It got to the point I couldn't skate for a while). If you feel the achilles pain is from the boot rather than the pitch, you might want to try punching out that area where the tendon guard meets the boot. That was what caused the issue for me and once I punched it out it was much better. I left it too long though, so, you might want to address it.