smcgreg

Had mine since the second week they came out. I skate 5-7 times per week. No durability issues other than a well worn tongue. I will probably need to do something about it soon, but given the amount of time I spend on them, I'm happy. Stock holder/runners. I came from Supremes, so, the pitch was an extreme change. After a couple months I was very close to at least having JR change the profile on the runners for me, but after about 6 mo, I finally started adapting and benefiting. Let me say, I had no knee problems other than a bit of muscle soreness around the knees (vastus m. and rectus fem.) for the first few skates, but it was more a matter of adapting to the skating style required by the extreme ptich. As I say though, have finally adapted and think now I have benefited as a result.

I believe, on the Makos, the holders give you a +2 and the runner gives you around a +1, so, collectively ballpark +3. Some of the experienced profilers might indicate otherwise though.

Same here. That footbed is pretty minimal, but with a good bake, the underlying structure of the skate outsole should conform pretty well. If not, maybe spot heat. Then the foot bed is just some thin cushion on top of the formed skate outsole. This is great for control. I tried my Sidas insoles and felt I lost all "feel" for the ice that I got with the OEM footbed, plus it introduced more volume issues.

I couldn't even get my feet in before baking. If they fit decent without bake, they should be great after baking.

It would be easier to comment on if the source was cited. I realize the article was from the VH website, but it doesn't state what research is being used as a basis for the statement.

Thanks. Guess I'll go elsewhere.

That's why I asked Jimmy further up the thread how the stock Mako compared to noicing's pitch ratings. I want to get less aggressive, but don't know what the existing pitch is, or how much to "back off". I'd like to do it in a somewhat standard fashion, so, that's why I asked Jimmy and was planning on using their profiled steel. I haven't gotten an answer yet.

Jimmy, I've been on my Makos since Apr, 4-6 x/week. I really think I need to back off the aggro pitch. I've given them time and there may be some advantages, but I'm not sure. Since you guys have replacement steel in, I was thinking about getting some new profiled steel from you. Then I could swap my old steel and new steel to compare. How would you compare the stock Mako pitch to the Aggressive, Medium and Minor forward pitch you have? I am guessing the Makos would be "Aggressive"? I want to go to less forward pitch, but not necessarily to neutral. At least I don't think.

You won't know if they fit unless you bake. I couldn't get my foot into the 6.5 Ds I got and the brannock said I should be 7.5 wide. Baked em and I was sold. Plus, dealers are baking them all before sale, to convince people they will fit. So, if you bake yours it shouldn't make a difference for resale. You really won't know for sure unless you bake though. Shouldn't need to sharpen.

Considering they can do this.. http://www.hockeymonkey.com/easton-hockey-skates-mako-jr.html I suspect they can offer a lower level skate that isn't too far off the idea of the top level. The Sr model goes down to 6 and the junior goes up to 5.5. A 0.5 size difference for $300 tells me there's some room to work with on price. Maybe I'm wrong though.

Took the words right off of my keyboard. That being said, I'm still very interested. Especially considering Giancarlo is coming from Makos, which I am currently on. Achilles area is such a cluster on the Makos, I'd like to hear how the VHs look/feel.

I'm a E/EE in the TotalOne. I went with a D in Mako and I wouldn't want to go wider.

Ironically, I had the same thing happen and was planning to post about it just so others would be aware if they weren't sure what was going on. I actually was considering selling them and getting the next size up, but I couldn't figure out why they fit perfect for a couple weeks then I had this issue. I thought maybe it was because the warm weather came and my feet had swollen or something. Then I realized had not been tying them as tight as when I first got them, so, I tied the lower eyelets tighter again and that solved the problem. Buzz suggested in his response tying the top eyelets tighter, but I was tying them pretty tight the whole time, so, that wasn't it for me. I still need to find that sweet spot where they are tight enough in the lower eyelets without making my feet fall asleep. Still, numb feet are better than how bad my toes were when they were sliding down. My one toenail will likely be falling off soon. Totally black. Hope this helps.

OK, so, I'm a "true EE" then and weaking a Mako D. Not "recommending" it to anyone, but just presenting my experience. I don't think I need anymore width in these.

Not to be contrarian, but I have a Bauer E foot. Supreme EE are too big and sloppy. Supreme Ds are too narrow and make my feet cramp. I have a pair of Tone E's from prostock that fit "ok". I went with a Mako D to make sure they were snug enough. They fit well. The only issue I have is in the heel, which I have addressed in the thread several times. So, in my experience, with a Supreme E foot, the Mako D works for me.

You may be referring to me. A couple people have mentioned hot spots around the tendon guard boot junction. Some think it was because of the extension from flexible tendon guard. In my case though it sounds like your problem. The main issue though was when I originally had mine baked, I probably leaned too far forward with flex during the back process. So, when they hardened, they were really digging into the back of my heels and causing the achilles to flair. The first couple skates, I could barely walk from the locker room to the ice. After a couple skates, I rebaked and then spot heated that area and pushed it out. Solved the problem on one foot, but not the other. Granted, the one that wasn't solved was so inflamed that it hurt in my Nike Free street shoes. After about a month now, last night was the first game where it wasn't killing me. I normally play/skate 5 or 6 times/week, but had to take a couple days off the second week to let things settle down, so, probably have ~ 20 skates in. Last night I could still feel it when standing straight up on the ice before the game and even on the bench, but not while skating. I was never "fighting the forward lean". I loved it and love the position and the fit as a whole. It's just that that spot on the boot is not exactly "soft" or comfy, and when it was formed in the flexed position, that started the problem. still, even when they were killing me, I still preferred them over my Tones. If it's bothering you, you might want to try spot heating and pushing it out a bit. If you just need to flex more though, that's an easy fix. Maybe it will be a good training cue for you if that's the problem.

Same as some of the others, I had mine baked in the shop when I got them. After I skated a couple times, I need to rebake and did it at home just like in the MLX video. Then did some spot fixes after that. The home oven bake was as good or better than the shop. Caveat: I stuck to the total time on the Easton box. 10 min total.

Same here. Just spot heated it and pushed it out. Didn't "roll it" so much as just pushed it out a bit with my thumb. Seems to have fixed it for me. Steve

I don't want to distract the thread anymore. If you want to start a separate thread, we can discuss this. I have already provided the basic tenets of my point that are relevant, though. VH, thanks for chiming in. As I said in a previous response, I don't want to distract too much from this thread. I will likely end up modeling this and doing a peer review paper on it at some point since I think there are a lot of confounding factors and this has become an increasing area of interest to me. I appreciate your time and responses though, so, since neither of us has any concrete data to provide, I won't belabor it anymore here. Thanks Steve

I will let it go, but you should probably stop citing me. The point about using running as the point of reference is because it is actually the "best case scenario" on this issue. In other words, if it costs 1% more energy per 100 gram of shoe for running, it will be worse in hockey due to dynamic nature of the activity and the anaerobic nature of the metabolism involved. It may not be perceivable, but the effect will be there, and more evident in the 3rd rather than the 1st period since glycogen is exponentially depleted and the primary fuel source for the activity. SVH didn't cite his original research. Saying something is inconsequential doesn't make it so without evidence. Further, if SVH wants to comment on his original research, that is fine, but I suspect he didn't model the effects of increased weight over the course of a full hockey game. All the aforementioned being said, don't get me wrong, I have Makos and will not go back to my Tones because of the superior fit regardless of the weight. At the same time, with comparable fit, reduced weight, especially on the skate (compared to relatively static equipment on other parts of the body) will make a difference. I will also be interested in the VH skates when they are available and despite the fact I like my Makos will likely still want to give them a try. The fit on the Makos will be difficult to beat though, so, other things like weight and "comfort" will likely be important factors to consider.

ugghh forget it

Not to belabor this point too much, but without doing any extensive calculations, we know from the running literature that for constant speed running, an additional 100 g to the weight (mass) of shoes adds approximately 1% to the Oxygen cost (O2 cost). At constant, steady state efforts, O2 cost is a good proxy and directly related to the metabolic expenditure. So, if maintaining constant speed, simply moving the boot through space would likely cost an extra 1% per 100 grams (likely more since there isn't a spring-mass component to skating like there is in running). The thing is, hockey ain't a constant, steady state effort. Hockey relies much more on anaerobic energy sources and non-constant speeds. Since anaerobic metabolism is much more costly and less efficient than aerobic metabolism, then the cost of 100 grams would be exponentially greater and impacts glycogen stores substantially more than for constant speed running. How much greater? It would take a bit of hand waving in addition to calculations. Regardless, at the top level of any sport, we know that 2 % is quite a costly difference in performance, and it is likely more than that. The difference may not be perceptible, but it is there. Anyway, I'll leave it at that at the risk of going too far afield.

Actually, further up the thread, in the initial post by VH, they make reference to the fact that they plan to offer a fully custom option for ~ $1000, and a retail option that will be on par with the other top end skates. The only issue will be the timeline on the retail option, I think. I doubt VH will give you specifics on that because, as a business man, he is probably aware that timelines are fluid and once you give a hard timeline, customers are often disappointed if it doesn't materialize. Who knows though, he may chime in on that point as well.

Thanks for the response. Well, your description of yourself indicates to me that you are a skeptic.... in a good way. There are many intangibles in skating/hockey. Therefore, in my case, before going to FBV, I wanted to get objective data just like you. Further, the guy who sharpens my skates, and who is a certified FBV guy, tells me there is no benefit to the FBV. He charges more just like anybody else, but says he's sharpened an entire team with FBV and they couldn't tell the difference. To his credit, he can make more money for the sharpening, but dissuades potential customers from getting it; go figure. That being said, I don't put a lot of stock in what this guy says right now. At the same time, it is a balancing opinion to those on the forum who swear by FBV. So, having followed your posts on the topic to some extent, I was curious to see your impressions. I will likely be trying FBV in the future after I have fully adapted to my Makos and can be a bit more certain that any noticeable change (good or bad) would be a result of the sharpening. Right now, after only having been on the Makos for a week or so, I don't think that's possible. I am definitely leaning more towards it now after your impressions. Then if I think there is value, I will likely get a sharpener as well. With an 8 yr and a 5 yr and myself, it will pay for itself in relatively short time frame.

This would indicate there will be mass production Aireaye, you are right on the ball, you can do much great customization with the monocoque process, including customizing the toe box for Hallux (big toe) deformaties. Our current model has the toe box as part of the monocoque boot body. Our production model skate, down the road, will have a plastic toe cap as this allows for more consistent, streamlined mass production.