smcgreg

As a follow up, I think the main issue with shims versus profiling to me would be the rivets. As I say, for the TUUKs, which should have been fine since the holes align pretty well, we had consistent rivet issues. On the other hand, for my son, with his most recent pair that simply profiled -2, he hasn't had one issue in about 3 months skating about 8+ hr per week. I hesitate to use my skates as an example since they are highly modified, but for the one I have shims on, I have consistent rivet problems. So, avoiding putting unusual stress on that rivet holder interface is probably the main factor in both cases. I would recommend profiling.

Wow... you bought a brand new pair of Mako IIs? There are still some of us left. I hope you're not going for the same sizes as me... 😉 Anyway, I'm sure there will be some skate tech guys that will chime in, but as someone who has done a lot of tinkering with Makos and shims, I would argue the contrary to your point. If you get a good profiler, it will be more accurate than shims. The precision of measurement of still and subsequent profiling from those who are experienced and good should be right on the nose. Whereas shims would likely be less precise. On the other hand, profiles can change over time with repeated sharpenings, whereas shims will not. Granted, with shims, the profile can still change with sharpenings anyway. For me, since both my kids are very good skaters and still in Makos (as am I) until I can't find anymore in the US for them to grow into, I will tell you that for both of them, I simply have the steel profiled -2. The combined pitch of the holder and steel is +3. To me personally and from their comments, the +3 is too aggressive (one is defenseman and the other is a very good backwards skater) so, they don't like the aggressive pitch. I don't like it either and negative profile mine as well. Anyways...... both of them get a -2 pitch on the steel, which leaves the skates at +1 overall and they're good. My son skated in Vapors for a year before moving to Makos. We initially put Tuuk holders on the Makos to get them to feel like Vapors, but the rivets pulled out a lot. So, after that first pair of skates, we went to negative profiling and it works much better. Since rivet integrity is an issue on Makos, I would probably try to avoid shims to avoid any manipulation of the rivet holder interface. Since we've gone to negative pitch with the kids, there have been far fewer rivet issues. I hope that helps.

I'm not in Trues, but when I went from Supremes to Makos I found a similar issue. I left the top two undone on my Supremes, but since the Makos were lower, I didn't feel like I could do that, so, I laced them all the way up and felt like I lost some forward flex. So, I went to 55 flex and that fixed the issue. Now, the problem is that 55 flex is no longer around (add it to the list of innovations that went away), so, I've had to get GREAT SAVES alternative. I actually don't like them as much as the 55 flex, but after some fiddling, got them to work like my old set up. So, my point is, if your other attempts don't work, you might want to try the lace extender to improve flex. Again, I felt exactly the same way when I initially moved to Makos.

Really? Dang, there's nothing in the states. I just moved into my last pair of back ups and my son is growing out of his last pair. Will likely be Trues for him before next season, since I haven't been able to find anything other than size 11 or 12 in the states.

I classify most of the new high end boots from Bauer, CCM etc (not Graf) as Skiboot boots. When I tried my fist pair on after 20+ years, that's what they felt like. Jeremy made the analogy of the Langes to skiboots, then indicated they felt like his normal skates. Hence my reference to skiboot boots. The Langes never really appealed to me at the time, but to be honest, I never tried them. My friend that had them was a fantastic player, but actually had ankle strength issues, which the Langes fixed for him. Anyway, that was the reason for my reference to skiboot boots.

Huh... we must have gotten out of and back into the sport around the same times. I remember when Langes got popular. My best friend as a kid had them, but I stuck with my Bauers. I too remember when composite sticks came on the scene and laughing that they wouldn't last, because they kept breaking (on tv). I didn't know anybody that played with them, so, never got a chance to try one and that was about the time I quit playing. When I came back in about 6 years ago, of course, I tried a composite stick and was blown away. The difference is incredible and that's why they stuck aside from the price and breakage. The main issue for me was the skates. I simply could not skate in new skates. I tried the new "skiboots" with blades and could barely skate. I found Makos and they solved the problem for me. So, I've stocked up on Makos for me and my kids. My son will grow out of his last pair of Makos some time this year, I presume and it will probably be on to Trues for him. Anyway, I was first struck by the fact you had a dozen pair of Langes, because I would have assumed they would feel like new Skiboot skates (as confirmed by Jeremy in the video) and as an old timer who left and came back on the same timeline as you, I can't stand new skates. They just don't fit as well as older skates and as also stated in the video, a properly fitting skate is probably the most important factor in on-ice performance. Thanks for the walk down memory lane.... Back on topic, I'm curious about these now. I'm skeptical they will make the kind of difference a composite stick will make, but might make a difference that is worthwhile to those who have an open mind. I don't see them becoming mainstream, because of the mainstream product gatekeepers. They could probably still remain viable as a 3rd party alternative and even in partnership with one of the smaller manufactures akin to the Makos.

As I said in the immediate previous reply to another poster, I had the same issue. I skate a lot and gave it 2 years. After 2 years, I gave up and got rid of the extreme pitch. Much better.

I skate 4-6 times per week and gave the aggressive pitch 2 years. I use a deep knee bend on a skate with neutral pitch. I don't need to skate in high heels to exhibit a deep knee bend .... when appropriate. That being said, I felt the exact same way, when not skating, but battling on the boards or in front of net, I continually fell forward. I was simply off balance. I also washed out a lot on turns. So, after 2 years, I had had enough. I had the pitch eliminated from the steel ( still have the holder pitch) and problem solved! In response to the poster wondering how to address the pitch, I've used both approaches. Both my son and daughter have Makos as well (I've stocked up 6 pairs for the kids to grow into). On my son's we put TUUK holders and LS runners. This would eliminate most of the pitch and matched his old Vapors pretty well. The problem is, the rivets pull out a lot. They don't align perfectly and are stressed too much. There have been a couple of times I've taken them in to get sharpened and loose rivets have been identified. In one case, we were in the middle of a tournament and they were so bad, J.R. had to redo one skate while I waited on a busy Saturday afternoon so, he could play 40 min later. (As always, great service J.R.) On my daughter's, we just went -3 on the pitch and that brings her close to her Jetspeeds, but still gives her probably a plus 1 pitch. They were +4 out of the box, which is crazy!

Your post is the perfect sales pitch for this product. The point in your comment that I underlined and bolded is the exact point that many people out in the world feel is the compelling reason to get the product. If you have "that guy" around the corner that does things the way you want it consistently every time, then the product is redundant and a waste of money. OTOH, not many people have "that guy" and the exact statement that "Too many unknown variables from one shop to the next at play here" is exactly what sells the product to many.

Agreed. Even the most innocuous pass can really sting if you get it on Makos. I'm a beer leaguer, so, don't worry about blocking shots anymore, but my son plays D and I've told him he should wear shot blockers for his. He doesn't want to, but I'm pretty sure he'll change his tune the first time he takes a shot.

As Althomas, I have stocked up. I've got a pair of Mako IIs and M8s for myself, I figure that will cover me for about 5 years and it was less than $500 for both. My son started in MIIs this summer and loves them, so, I just got him a pair for when he grows out of these . I figure between his current and this new pair, I should be covered for 2 years. We'll see what's available at that point. Hard to pass up these deals though. As he said, even if there is a comparable skate in the future, there's no way it will be even close to this cheap and may not even be as good.

In fact, some may even give you a 1/2 in unbeknownst to you, because they think they know better. It's happened to me before. As if I wouldn't be able to tell. When approached, they told me they wanted to prove to me that it wouldn't make any difference. Needless to say, I don't go there anymore.

This is not necessary the case and often quite the opposite. I've posted on this many times. My son has very flat feet and superfeet killed him and exacerbated his pronation. Is now 11 yr old and a very good, borderline AAA caliber skater. No special insoles whatsoever. Skating is not running, so, having something to "push their feet up in the arches" doesn't work in the same way it does with running because the ground reaction forces are different. Honestly, recommending "high arch" insoles for somebody with flat feet in skating is probably about the farthest thing from what you would want to do. They will make most people in this category miserable. High arch insoles in skating are for people with.... high arches... So, my point is, special insoles may or may not be necessary, but they are certainly not necessary simply because the skater has flat feet. Feel free to search my earlier posts on the matter, I've commented quite extensively on it.

Glad he was able to land on his feet. I hear you'll have to deal with Darren though... ;-) My son Liam was asking what was going to happen to Darren and Jose today. I told him Darren would be at Troy and Jose would be at Novi. He said, "Darn it. That would have been great if JR, Jose and Darren were all at the same store". That's the kind of impression the TH people from around here have made on him. How many 11 yr olds look forward to seeing the staff at their LHSs? On the TH front, I think they made a mistake closing AA. People were just starting to realize it was there. Seriously, last winter, people who frequented the Cube still didn't even know it was there. I think one more year and it would have been as profitable as Novi or better. Lots of underserved population in and west of Ann Arbor with nowhere else to go now. Not to mention tournaments, etc. but.. I digress. Back to the topic at hand... Novi still isn't all that close. With 3 people in the family all skating 4 or more times per week (actually my daughter's in figure skating too, so, add another pair of skates), without having a reliable shop in the neighborhood, it's really not practical to have to go out of town for a sharpening. I'll give it some time to see how the logistics can work out before pulling the trigger though. I'll probably try running up to Novi a couple times or having Darren take care of my steel at Troy since he'll be on the ice with me a couple times/week. Still, not as handy as what I've had the past two years. I'm pretty spoiled right now.

Given that it appears my local TH will be closing, I guess I'll be getting one of these. I don't trust the sharpenings anywhere else that's close to me and I'm not driving an hour to JR's shop. So, since this machine seems to be pretty consistent, it should pay for itself within about a year, if not, two. Plus the convenience of having it done when I want, the way I want.

Well, I've tried everything. .... literally. My Mako IIs are Frakenskates right now and fantastic for my feet. It took me a while to get mine dialed in and I've had Makos or Mako IIs since two weeks after they came out ... what, 3 or 4 yrs ago. My point was simply that I can see pretty much anyone (narrow or wide heel) having heel lock issues since the heels open up so much with baking. As you should probably know, unlike other skates, these are not really foot type specific. That means, whatever the type of foot, they can fit you, but at the same time, whatever the type of foot, you can have issues as well. I'll be buying two pairs (M8 and MII) to carry my through the next 5 years as Easton disappears and cross my fingers that Bauer will incorporate the technology, at least moldability, if nothing else. Ironically, probably the greatest innovation MLX had, the adjustable holders, didn't even carry over to the Makos, so, I'm not holding my breath. **edit: the other point I was making was, although I don't have heel lock issues when I step on the ice, after skating a while (especially now with this heat and humidity) I do have them since the skates get so damn wet and my heels slip a bit. Still, all in all, a nit picky problem.

Lucky you ;-)

Actually, the heel can be pretty wide as it opens up with baking. I have a fairly wide heel (wide foot overall) and I have issues with heel lock as well. It's particularly bad this time of year with the heat since they get so darn wet and my feet start sloshing around after 30-45 min. Still, best skate there is. Anyway, my point was, I have a wide heel and the Mako II can be a bit sloppy for me as well.

I have several posts on this topic (i.e. superfeet and flat feet) in various threads. I think the general argument that Superfeet are good for pronation and/or flat feet is misguided. I have pronation issues myself, but more to your point, my son has VERY flat feet, with hyperlaxity (i.e. flexible arch). Over the years, I tried many different insoles, including superfeet, and they all made him miserable. For the past 3 years, he has been in Vapors (that fit his foot shape and volume), with the stock minimal footbed and no complaints. This past week, we just got him a pair of Makos and slapped on TUUK holders and use the stock footbeds, and again, no complaints, he loves them. My point is, don't try superfeet and force yourself to like them thinking they should. The most important thing is skate fit and appropriate shape. Then, if you have flat feet, you may not want any arch support at all. Skating is not walking or running, therefore the biomechanical issues related to low arches are much different. Superfeet are designed for heel stabilization, not arch support and you may be miserable in them. If you are, try the stock footbeds and you may be fine. if so, the Superfeet can go back for a refund. If you like them, great. Just don't try to force yourself to like them, because you think you should.

Yes, but times and temps are on the box, are they not?

Well, considering the inventor of the skate promotes doing it in a conventional oven, not sure what the issue is. I've baked two different pairs of Makos a couple times each in my oven at home with no issues. I used to sweat over home baking, but not anymore (at least skates).

Agreed, I was in a Supreme E and wear a Mako D. Also, you MUST try them on after baking or there is no relationship to how they will fit after baking. I couldn't get my foot into the 6.5 D before baking. It was perfect after.

Well, the shots are already hard enough to hurt at 10 in the wrong spots. A AAA kid dropped him like a sack of potatoes in a 3v3 tournament with a slapshot that hit him on the hip and missed the pads. It hasn't happened on the foot yet, but the time will come............. I wouldn't be surprised if he started taking some that hurt on the foot this year. If I recall, isn't your son the one that "over pronates" and he's in Makos? Do you get the blade aligned? or has he grown out of it?

Kids always got bullied. That's a good way to put it though. A badge of honor for blocking shots. His home white jersey looks like he's a target in the shooting range with all the black puck marks on it. Against much better teams, when we're pinned in the zone, he's made more saves than the goalies. He likes to show that jersey off. Granted, it would be nice not to get pinned in the zone..... So, maybe that will be the way to go with it once the time comes.