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flip12
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Everything posted by flip12
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I think True boot height is more in line with Graf and Mako, so roughly 1 eyelet lower than Bauer and CCM. It won’t be as many eyelets as the taller boots as there simply isn’t space for it.
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Marleau’s 9K’s are still down-spec’d a bit from how a stock 9K was. He stuck with TPU outsoles like there were on his previous CCM skates. His eyelet pattern is also funky, omitting eyelets 2 and 4 from the top which also promotes forward flex. Fedorov and Bure also rocked TPU outsoled boots after composite was introduced: Bure on his early Vapor 8s and Fedorov on G3s. McDavid’s stiffness spec apparently matches the third tier offerring in the Tacks lineup: https://www.icewarehouse.com/CCM_Tacks_9080/descpage-CT8S.html If he had wanted stiffer when JetSpeeds came out he almost certainly could have had that spec.
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Back then tendon guards started out stiff and broke in, allowing at least some of that toe flick, some brands more than others. My CCM 652 Pump Tacks felt pretty much the same in tendon guard ROM as my MLX do. Stamm’s instructor was out for maximum toe flick. With heel lock you can get some but with heel lift you can get even more. Stamm’s teaching made a lot of sense for me getting a hockey boot to work more naturally before I made the jump to Graf. My 705s let me fly like I never knew I could. They had both heel lock and incredible range of motion.
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Both Marleau and McDavid compete on less stiff than current top-end stiffness. Looking backwards in skate history there have always been skaters who exhibit remarkable speed and agility. Look at the dynamic skating of Valeri Kharlamov and it’s clear boots don’t have to be stiff for players to do what they need to do on the ice.
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What I appreciate about this thread is its fundamental questioning of the current state of hockey skates. I’m in the camp with those that would say they’re overstructured. There’s a lot of nuance in all of the facets that go into skating so it’s a worthwhile discussion. Regarding heel lock, I somewhat recall being taught at Laura Stamm Power Skating that you get more stride length if you get heel lift. That way you have even more toe flick. The instructors all skated 1-3 eyelets unlaced and this was back when O.G. Bauer Vapor 8s just came out.
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If you go back in the archives on here, the connection is clear: MLX is what they renamed DASC, an acronym of 4 names where D is David Cruikshank and S Scott Van Horne after Mario Lemieux came on as an investor. I don’t know who the other two are. If you rewatch the Making of the Mako videos, Cruikshank shows off his SVH made prototype. I’m pretty sure he mentions SVH as the boot maker there. But SVH was the builder behind MLX/DASC as far as I know. Why VH Footwear didn’t have a non-compete with the Mako might come down to the different companies or the subtle differences between the Mako and VH, I’m not sure. Before all that Van Horne was also involved with Kor. @JunkyardAthletic knows the details much better.
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That's kind of the best I know of at this point. I've wondered about ways to try skates out before you buy them, but I'm not sure of a good way to do it yet. I guess that's why CCM has their forgiving trial return policy. Maybe if you could try skates on without the holders and do a set of jumping exercises in them you could get a sense of if they hinder your forward flex or not. I doubt this would work well for testing their lateral support for turns though.
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As @clarkiestooth says, the stiffness of the boot has a lot to do with whether a player will feel undersupported (I think this is what people mean by sloppy when they’re talking about stiffness), adequately supported or restricted (oversupported). Different strokes for different players, though, literally. The stride length, as a function of the player’s natural body frame, of say Grabner versus Toews will have a large influence on where these over and undersupported lines get individually drawn. In my personal experience, a significantly overlooked component in this equation is tongue stiffness. If there’s room to go down in tongue stiffness, a stiffer boot can still allow for adequate forward flex.
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A significant number of Mako lovers loved them in spite of that aggressive pitch. A lot of people swapped holders to tone it down a bit. Some of that pitch is in the boot, some in the holder and some the steel. You can still replicate that angle even in something as different as a Nexus skate. Shims will change your angle without affecting the steel. Buy the skate for how it fits your foot dynamically. Adjust for ice contact properties afterwards as these are primarily issues of the steel and holder (though in concert with the boot) and can be tuned as needed regardless of which boot suits you.
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Looks like a better fit than what he had last season.
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The original picture doesn’t look at all like Pastrnak. You can’t possibly dumb it down, your point was clear from the beginning. The reason I thought it was interesting is there are people who are face blind. Do you often have these switch ups?
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I don’t think they look alike at all beyond the fact that they’re both athletic white males of approximately the same age (they’re less than a month apart in age, but I didn’t know that before looking it up, and anyone comparing their appearance wouldn’t necessarily know it either). But that description fits a majority of the NHL. Nylander’s got a very LEGO face, so once you’ve recognized him it’s hard to mistake him for someone else. Pastrnak’s got a much longer looking face and a generally goofier game face than Nylander. I could see mixing Pastrnak up with Anze Kopitar if it weren’t for the age difference. Who’s friends with whom? P and N are or you are with P and N?
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The ventilation pattern is very similar but subtly different. Notably an even number of 'columns' in the grill that make the middle a void rather than a bar; Concept features an odd number, putting a vertical in the middle. The ventilation on the side is a bit different as well. I wonder if these minor differences will have any effect on how they breathe, comparatively, or whether it's purely cosmetic.
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Totally agree. I don’t know anyone with Bauer or CCM customs, but from reading on here I’ve come across some complaints reminiscent of those against True customs.
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The nature of True’s zero negative space fit could lend itself to these struggles too. Comparing them to what you see from Bauer and CCM at retail isn’t really apples to apples. With less filler in the mix custom Trues seem to be a tricky puzzle of cookie cutter pieces that must come together on a more unique target form with each pair. In my opinion, this is some of the growing pains you get from a speed skate maker making further and further inroads on the hockey market. Just consider that elite custom speed boots seem to run around $2K per pair, plus the claim from SVH that hockey boots are subject to far more substantial abuse from abrasions and impacts on the outside and perspiration on the inside. That and the sheer volume discrepancies between the hockey and speed skating markets point toward an adjustment phase where the techniques adapted from the one sea are firmly reapplied in the new one. Meantime, True’s market penetration keeps growing. That’s number one.
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What is the new one’s material makeup? Foam, felt, and leather? Can you share some detailed views of it?
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Does the new tongue have a moderately stiff thermoplastic piece running 90% of its length like the MLX tongue had?
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What improvements do you have in mind?
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I wouldn’t change that either. That’s another thing I think Graf gets more than the other skate brands...though I suppose it’s impossiblebto refute the simple counter-argument that other brands only make their skates stiffer than stiff across the entire boot because that’s what the customer wants; on the other hand Bauer and CCM have begun to walk back their overzealous boot stiffening of late. Again, look at Viking speed skates: they’re not nearly as stiff as competitors’ boots, but they’re still popular and skaters wearing them still figure in the medal count. They’ve meshed the integrated outsole-quarter piece and managed to maintain their optimal feel of stiff down low and softer on top. The marketing of the one piece boot is often a bit wishy washy, but I definitely notice a difference in high speed turning stability and more immediate response wearing my MLX compared to Graf. There are still things, previously mentioned, that I still prefer from my Grafs. But when I swap them out for MLXs mid-session, I feel the performance boost instantly. I’m starting to wonder if this has less to do with there being less material or fewer parts in the boot-holder junction and more to do with the boot better resisting torsion. I’ll add some visual materials to show where that thinking comes from in a little bit. I think I’ll have to dig around to find some images and also probably sketch some others. I just want to finish this monster post, “Sorry,” with this: whatever the cause, I definitely do believe in the benefit of the one piece boot...not that I think it has to be one chunk of a shell, but that the effect of those skates is very real, and I’d bet the future of hockey skates 10-years down the line.
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Right. I’d try integrating the parts quarter A - outsole - quarter B into a butterflylike unit, leaving the heel part to be stitched up the same way they’ve been doing for decades. Viking’s heel cup is similar, but I picture the approach I’d try changing less about Graf’s assembly process.
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I wouldn’t change the various Graf fits at all, just update the boots’ materials and construction.
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I just wish Graf would do a monocoque boot, with an integrated outsole and quarter package.
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Looks new with the CCM branding on the heel akin to the new Vapors. Yellow so maybe an early look at the next Tacks.
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It might seem like a let down that the release isn’t finger operable, but it looks like quite a firm lock and the tool head’s smaller diameter prioritizes the spatial compactness of the mechanism over tool less handiness. That’s the right order of priorities IMO. Also, it looks like a nice pocket size so an amateur coach can have one for making quick swaps on the bench during games or practice. Can the skater do a swap on their own skates while wearing them?
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Indeed. I’m partial to not getting slashed on a naked wrist and smart designs that offer both fit and function. I have long arms, though. My XL 20K elbows stop a couple of inches short of my cuffs.
