flip12

Gotcha. I thought that's what you meant, but just wanted to be sure. His pro pattern looks amazing. I know @decoy is a huge fan of it.

What do you mean by “the real Sakic?”

All skates for the last few decades have been made with thermoformable materials. You can see it happen in the how-it’s-made factory videos even with traditional skates like Graf and Bauer Classic Supremes. Whether they’re reformable under conditions available to the consumer is the question.

Vapor 8 was where I gave up on Bauer. I saw Graf 705s in person in a shop and I was blown away by the craftsmanship. They were much more comfortable too, of course. But these are making me reassess all I thought about Bauer. My Vapor 8s were size 10.5 and I didn't have a clue about what they should have been. These are 9.5 EE and they feel almost perfect. I had a hot spot at the end of my large metatarsal on one foot--rubbing right at the edge of the toe cap. But the shell has great stiffness and the liner/foam combo felt very similar to my Catalyst 7s. The steel feels great. Speaking of the forefoot vice, even though these are wide, they still look quite narrow. I fully agree about the looks. I thought Vapor 8s were so cool when they came out. Vapor 10s were just a cut above. The only ones I like almost as much are the XXX and Hyperlite. A true Vapor has to have a certain balance of black and grey. These though, they almost sparkle with the metal mesh, and it's nice there's no tertiary color muddling the mix. Even the splash of red in the XXX is a drawback in my book.

True has their own production facilities in China, if I’m not mistaken, so they’re offshoring it not outsourcing it.

Don’t assume. You’d do us all a huge favor if you tried them again and did a review. You know current offerings better than anyone as well as what Grafs were like compared to the competition in Graf’s glory days. That’s more or less what Graf tried, and when that wasn’t working they started to make their skate patterns more along the lines of other manufacturers. That hasn’t helped either. Graf wasn’t really on anything equivalent to the 3 Fit system. Sure they had different fits, but those fits were paired with different models, each with their own features. If you liked the 703 construction but had a deep foot, you were out of luck. Grafs are still the best skates I’ve ever skated in. Cobras (in their classic 11’ rocker config.) are still by far the holder and steel spec. combo that suit me best. I really wish they would make a comeback. I just don’t see the signs of it.

What makes you say talent is "mostly a myth?" I consider it one of the "huge amounts of luck" factors.

They really ought to find a way to channel the success of the 703 into modern tech. They don't need to radically alter any of the major function points, just upgrade the construction. That's proven tricky over the last few decades, however.

The thing with Trues is, you don't have to bake them snug around the ankle. You can flare the top out if that's what you're after. The customizability of the boots can make them tricky to dial in.

There are quite a few who do. My personal standard is Graf. They nailed so many details it’s insane. Those have slowly been adopted by other brands, though, eliminating their comfort advantage, which was their calling card during their North American expansion in the 90’s and 00’s. Before the one90 dropped Graf had 25% of NHL All-Stars in their skates. They were a niche brand but that was huge for their visibility.

Watched it. It was a weird video. Was it an infomercial? Chris and his crew were nowhere visible in it at all. Also a bit random with the Special Mr. Graf 82 Edition skates. Why 82? 80 makes more sense to celebrate. Impressive they made the Cobra in a year. I know it has a lot in common with Tuuk Custom+, but it also has some nice improvements in comparison. Maybe that's not that surprising since they knew figure skating so well at the time.

I don’t doubt it, just never heard it.

@Leif What's a powerpull?

I asked because even first generation Catalysts are selling for around 50% off and they’re newer than the TF line.

Are you talking about the TF series?

From what I’ve seen, most boots run the quarter material all the way to the end of the facing. It makes sense because that area experiences a lot of force, so it’s usually reinforced with some pleather and the grommets to ensure some longevity. How thick the shell materials are through the facing, I’m not sure. If they stopped the quarter material and stiched pleather to that borderline all along the edge to make a kind of facing extension it would probably be a weak connection and prone to failure.

I like the look of the pants. The new Catalyst tendon guard looks like a step in the right direction. The Catalyst tongue and cosmetics remind me of CCM, especially the silver heel spur from the 70K-80K vintage.

The shell doesn’t cover the entire toe cap area like it used to in the VH days. It does form the complete bowl around the bottom of the boot all the way around the front, just not the upper half of the toe cap.

I get why you’d do it that way. I think I developed my blade face comparison after looking at the Warrior Smyth, CCM P46, Malkin Pro (the one most commonly associated with his name—dude’s had more patterns than the rest of the active NHL players combined). All of those are variations on the E4/PM9 (so is Kessel Pro, but I’ve never seen one in person). The Smyth tricked me for the longest time, but once I held it up to the E4 it was as though everything snapped into focus. Once you see the blade shape you can guess which predecessor a pattern might come from and then it’s easy to see how you’d take the older pattern and make the new one from it. That’s how most of these blades (like most if not all art) come about: take a pattern that you like the most but still see a way to tweak it to better suit your own taste. The common theme these days is add toe curve, shave the toe. Those two operations account for all sorts of pro curve variants like… E6 —> E28 E13 —> Kovalev, Barkov, Draisaitl, Hossa -> Jurco (E13 aka Darby I suspect might be Ray Bourque’s pattern) P92 —> Stamkos, Benn, Zegras Demitra Pro is just as you describe, P88 shape but with the curve wiped out, the a twisted toe that comes out of nowhere. But that’s easily done with the wood he was working with until the last moments of his tragically shortened career.

Original Malkin is a modified PM9, I’m 97.1% certain. It’s very close to PSHS’ Kovalchuk-Thrashers without the toe shave. It’s not really P88 in any way other than that PM9 and P88 are two of the lowest curves on the retail market and they’re both relatively consistent in blade height from heel to toe. MacKinnon Pro (Warrior Gionta inspired by Demitra Pro) is closest to a toe-heavy P88. Toe shape is a bit sleeker, but the lie profile and overall shape lines up with P88.

Some guys I play with ordered Backstroms. They look more like p19 curves with a thinner blade face than anything P88 or PM9.

But I thought P14 had the radiused toe for increased ice contact on toe-initiated shots. P88 might have the flattest toe rocker of any retail blade ever.

Anyone got a non-FB source?

I think it’s tape. Customs are built like papier-mâché and there’s tape holding the build up to the footlast.