Equipment like beer/cola wars?

[chippa13 1844]

No minimums is a good thing.  I would have booked Hefter but their minimums were too high.  I was reluctent to carry Salming, having been burnt by some off-brands in the past. But for some strange reason, customers took to the brand.  Getting them to even pick it up is the first hurdle.  Once they do that, if it's a good product it will sell.

The minimums and programs that the big guys have, require shops to spend so much money to get the products they want or to reach higher discount levels that they often don't have money left to spend on other brands.

The best things a small company can do would be:(in my opinion)

1. Don't require large commitments on intial orders

2. Allow shops to make a decent profit on intial orders AND follow up orders

3. Don't sell to big online stores, it's like opening up a competitor to every one of your other dealers

4. Don't open every shop in every town, your dealers need to have some exclusivity

5. Keep your profit margins low to make the product more attractive to dealers, if the price of your stick is the same as a top end stick from a better-known brand you won;t get people into your product as quickly

I disagree with number 4. If you're going to move product into an area, you need to have visibility and that means being in more than one shop.

[JR Boucicaut 3805]

ONEGoal just announced their dates - 1/14-1/16/07 in Toronto.

Works for me...short car ride...

[Chadd 916]

ONEGoal just announced their dates - 1/14-1/16/07 in Toronto.

Works for me...short car ride...

Outstanding. It's not in November and it's in Toronto.

[Chadd 916]

But there has to be some scale - and in most cases it's price - showing that a specific model is on par with a competitors model. That's not always correct, but how it's perceived.

I don't subscribe to that belief as much as others do. I've seen that approach fail for a couple of manufacturers. Some people think that just because it's expensive that it must be good, the reality is that doesn't work in a lot of markets. If I had a stick that I thought was as good as a Synergy SL, I would price it $10 lower. I'm not talking about a huge amount, just enough to provide a little more incentive to buy it.

I disagree with number 4. If you're going to move product into an area, you need to have visibility and that means being in more than one shop.

A lot of shops aren't interested in taking a chance on a new product if they're going to have to compete with everyone else in town. As a manufacturer, you have to give shops as many reasons as possible to bring in your product.

[Fire0nIce228 1]

lerxst,

I dont know how far the drive is for you, but Kosports in cannonsburg is well worth the 45 minute trip for me. Its right off the canonsburg exit on I-79. Super shop, lots of stuff..

[Chadd 916]

lerxst,

I dont know how far the drive is for you, but Kosports in cannonsburg is well worth the 45 minute trip for me. Its right off the canonsburg exit on I-79. Super shop, lots of stuff..

The place was jammed with gear last time I was in there but they really jerked me around with a warranty issue.

[hockeyherb 1]

No minimums is a good thing.  I would have booked Hefter but their minimums were too high.  I was reluctent to carry Salming, having been burnt by some off-brands in the past. But for some strange reason, customers took to the brand.  Getting them to even pick it up is the first hurdle.  Once they do that, if it's a good product it will sell.

The minimums and programs that the big guys have, require shops to spend so much money to get the products they want or to reach higher discount levels that they often don't have money left to spend on other brands.

The best things a small company can do would be:(in my opinion)

1. Don't require large commitments on intial orders

2. Allow shops to make a decent profit on intial orders AND follow up orders

3. Don't sell to big online stores, it's like opening up a competitor to every one of your other dealers

4. Don't open every shop in every town, your dealers need to have some exclusivity

5. Keep your profit margins low to make the product more attractive to dealers, if the price of your stick is the same as a top end stick from a better-known brand you won;t get people into your product as quickly

I disagree with number 4. If you're going to move product into an area, you need to have visibility and that means being in more than one shop.

I don't know that your visibility is as important by having numerous retailers as having maybe one or two really solid retailers that you can service the heck out of and make them evangelical about your product.

Small guys can only cover so much ground so I'd rather let my marketing on web, tv, magazines, whatever drive people to look for the shop that has the product I'm selling, then make sure you follow it up with great sales support. And you can help those select retailers have great selection too - there is nothing worse than going to a store for a product line and they have one or two things in odd sizes only. The enthusiasm you might have had for that product is out the window when you can't see it on the shelves and it almost feels like it's being cleared out - people might assume it sucks.

[hip check 0]

I don't subscribe to that belief as much as others do. I've seen that approach fail for a couple of manufacturers. Some people think that just because it's expensive that it must be good, the reality is that doesn't work in a lot of markets. If I had a stick that I thought was as good as a Synergy SL, I would price it $10 lower. I'm not talking about a huge amount, just enough to provide a little more incentive to buy it.

A price difference of a few bucks (like the $10 you suggested) isn't going to hurt at all. I was more thinking of $50-$75 being a drop that would be linked to lower performance. You're right in line with what I would think to be correct - more incentive to buy something of apparently equal performance.

[Jason Harris 31]

ONEGoal just announced their dates - 1/14-1/16/07 in Toronto.

Works for me...short car ride...

That's great news. I just put in a call to my contact at the HHOF to schedule a cocktail hour at the Hall during the show.

[hip check 0]

Is ONEGoal for consumers as well as dealers?

[Chadd 916]

Is ONEGoal for consumers as well as dealers?

Last time it was in Toronto there were kids running all over the place and they had ball hockey going on during the Boston show. I'm sure that you will be able to get in if you have enough money or decent contacts.

[chippa13 1844]

No minimums is a good thing.  I would have booked Hefter but their minimums were too high.  I was reluctent to carry Salming, having been burnt by some off-brands in the past. But for some strange reason, customers took to the brand.  Getting them to even pick it up is the first hurdle.  Once they do that, if it's a good product it will sell.

The minimums and programs that the big guys have, require shops to spend so much money to get the products they want or to reach higher discount levels that they often don't have money left to spend on other brands.

The best things a small company can do would be:(in my opinion)

1. Don't require large commitments on intial orders

2. Allow shops to make a decent profit on intial orders AND follow up orders

3. Don't sell to big online stores, it's like opening up a competitor to every one of your other dealers

4. Don't open every shop in every town, your dealers need to have some exclusivity

5. Keep your profit margins low to make the product more attractive to dealers, if the price of your stick is the same as a top end stick from a better-known brand you won;t get people into your product as quickly

I disagree with number 4. If you're going to move product into an area, you need to have visibility and that means being in more than one shop.

I don't know that your visibility is as important by having numerous retailers as having maybe one or two really solid retailers that you can service the heck out of and make them evangelical about your product.

Small guys can only cover so much ground so I'd rather let my marketing on web, tv, magazines, whatever drive people to look for the shop that has the product I'm selling, then make sure you follow it up with great sales support. And you can help those select retailers have great selection too - there is nothing worse than going to a store for a product line and they have one or two things in odd sizes only. The enthusiasm you might have had for that product is out the window when you can't see it on the shelves and it almost feels like it's being cleared out - people might assume it sucks.

Visibility is absolutely important. In most parts of the states there are very limited avenues for marketing for gear manufacturers. However, if you've got your stuff in a couple of local shops, people will not only see it but be able to pick it up, handle it, and get a feel for it. More sales have probably been generated from the LHS browse while waiting for a sharpening than from an ad in The New England Hockey Journal.

[Chadd 916]

Visibility is absolutely important. In most parts of the states there are very limited avenues for marketing for gear manufacturers. However, if you've got your stuff in a couple of local shops, people will not only see it but be able to pick it up, handle it, and get a feel for it. More sales have probably been generated from the LHS browse while waiting for a sharpening than from an ad in The New England Hockey Journal.

I agree with you entirely about that. I just think that you have to give a shop a reason to take a chance on your product. Quite honestly it's hard enough to get one vendor in a market to try an "off" brand.

[hockeyherb 1]

Visibility is absolutely important.  In most parts of the states there are very limited avenues for marketing for gear manufacturers.  However, if you've got your stuff in a couple of local shops, people will not only see it but be able to pick it up, handle it, and get a feel for it.  More sales have probably been generated from the LHS browse while waiting for a sharpening than from an ad in The New England Hockey Journal.

I agree with you entirely about that. I just think that you have to give a shop a reason to take a chance on your product. Quite honestly it's hard enough to get one vendor in a market to try an "off" brand.

That's why it has to be supported with a good marketing program. You need some NHL stars to use your product, you need to do some great TV or magazine spots. The way you get a local guy into a new product is by letting him know he's going to get some support - both from a rep and from the company from a visibility standpoint.

[Chadd 916]

Visibility is absolutely important.  In most parts of the states there are very limited avenues for marketing for gear manufacturers.  However, if you've got your stuff in a couple of local shops, people will not only see it but be able to pick it up, handle it, and get a feel for it.  More sales have probably been generated from the LHS browse while waiting for a sharpening than from an ad in The New England Hockey Journal.

I agree with you entirely about that. I just think that you have to give a shop a reason to take a chance on your product. Quite honestly it's hard enough to get one vendor in a market to try an "off" brand.

That's why it has to be supported with a good marketing program. You need some NHL stars to use your product, you need to do some great TV or magazine spots. The way you get a local guy into a new product is by letting him know he's going to get some support - both from a rep and from the company from a visibility standpoint.

The problem there is a lot of the smallers guys aren't as well funded as the big boys and can't afford multi-million dollar ad campaigns or multiple five or six figure endorsement deals.

[jimmy 194]

Visibility is absolutely important.  In most parts of the states there are very limited avenues for marketing for gear manufacturers.  However, if you've got your stuff in a couple of local shops, people will not only see it but be able to pick it up, handle it, and get a feel for it.  More sales have probably been generated from the LHS browse while waiting for a sharpening than from an ad in The New England Hockey Journal.

I agree with you entirely about that. I just think that you have to give a shop a reason to take a chance on your product. Quite honestly it's hard enough to get one vendor in a market to try an "off" brand.

That's why it has to be supported with a good marketing program. You need some NHL stars to use your product, you need to do some great TV or magazine spots. The way you get a local guy into a new product is by letting him know he's going to get some support - both from a rep and from the company from a visibility standpoint.

You don't need NHL players, or ad campaigns. It's simple. If you want a shop to carry your new brand, you have to take the risk factor away from the shop owner. Guaranty buy back if it don't sell. Bingo!

[Dan_The_Man_16 0]

Whats the deal with this ONEgoal thing. I am very interested in going, could someone please PM me with some info?

[DarkStar50 679]

Visibility is absolutely important.  In most parts of the states there are very limited avenues for marketing for gear manufacturers.  However, if you've got your stuff in a couple of local shops, people will not only see it but be able to pick it up, handle it, and get a feel for it.  More sales have probably been generated from the LHS browse while waiting for a sharpening than from an ad in The New England Hockey Journal.

I agree with you entirely about that. I just think that you have to give a shop a reason to take a chance on your product. Quite honestly it's hard enough to get one vendor in a market to try an "off" brand.

That's why it has to be supported with a good marketing program. You need some NHL stars to use your product, you need to do some great TV or magazine spots. The way you get a local guy into a new product is by letting him know he's going to get some support - both from a rep and from the company from a visibility standpoint.

You don't need NHL players, or ad campaigns. It's simple. If you want a shop to carry your new brand, you have to take the risk factor away from the shop owner. Guaranty buy back if it don't sell. Bingo!

Good idea but you know x amount of dealers would abuse a "consignment" deal with a new product vendor anyway. So the vendor is sticking his neck out twice as much. Besides after 25+ years in the biz, I can't remember any vendor doing this. Its actually tougher to break into the marketplace now then it was only five years ago. Just ask our buddy Jason with Salming.

"I'm taking what they're giving

'cause I'm working for a living."

Huey Lewis

[Eazy_b97 1]

Didn't Rebellion do their products on Consignment? I'm pretty sure they were at my store.

[Jason Harris 31]

You don't need NHL players, or ad campaigns. It's simple. If you want a shop to carry your new brand, you have to take the risk factor away from the shop owner. Guaranty buy back if it don't sell. Bingo!

I think it depends on how proactive the shop will be.

I understand the player will make the ultimate decision, but if the shop tells the player, "Hey, we picked up some really nice sticks that we think you're going to like, " then I think the product will ultimately sell.

On the other hand, if the employee waits at the counter while the product is tucked into a corner -- I've seen it -- then it doesn't help either of us to tie up the product or shelf space.

[Chadd 916]

You don't need NHL players, or ad campaigns.  It's simple. If you want a shop to carry your new brand, you have to take the risk factor away from the shop owner.  Guaranty buy back if it don't sell. Bingo!

I think it depends on how proactive the shop will be.

I understand the player will make the ultimate decision, but if the shop tells the player, "Hey, we picked up some really nice sticks that we think you're going to like, " then I think the product will ultimately sell.

On the other hand, if the employee waits at the counter while the product is tucked into a corner -- I've seen it -- then it doesn't help either of us to tie up the product or shelf space.

If you have shops that believe in a product, they will move it at some level. If the employees don't like it, they won't be able to sell it.

[jimmy 194]

Didn't Rebellion do their products on Consignment? I'm pretty sure they were at my store.

I have quite a few companies that we arranged a buy-back deal. I see it as a win-win. Without consignment or buy-back, I prob wouldn't have stocked the product.

This way, they get exposure they would not have gotten, they get sales, and eventually the store carrying their products full time with future bookings. It is obvious that the store employees have to highlight the product, this goes with basic retailing. If I hide a Bauer 5000 helmet in the back of the store and never bring it up or offer one up for a customer to try/look at, they won't sell unless the customer came in looking for it. Same applies to the no-name/new brands.

I've had good success pushing off brands, if the product is good of course. My big disaster was with Flite, couldn't sell that stuff no matter how hard I tried.

[hockeyherb 1]

This way, they get exposure they would not have gotten, they get sales, and eventually the store carrying their products full time with future bookings. It is obvious that the store employees have to highlight the product, this goes with basic retailing.

Exactly the point I've been trying to make.

You can't just try to blanket as many retailers as you can because you KNOW several of them just aren't going to give a crap about your product. They might carry it if you say it's on consignment, but what's the point if it will just languish and you'll get a bunch of old, dusty stuff back later? You have to be selective about who you sell through to make it worthwhile when you're a smaller brand. The big guys take care of themselves by driving customers to the stores looking for products because it's used by NHL stars or they have slick marketing that creates desire for the product.

And if I'm Joe Blow who runs a LHS, and a rep from Acme Hockey comes in with some product and he wants precious shelf space he better have some unique advantage for that product - consignment or not. If he's doesn't have a product that is superior in some way or isn't supporting the sales of his product by doing some marketing to create some demand, the best salesman in an LHS is still going to have a hard time convincing a buyer why he would want that.

It all comes down to a company's business strategy. If you're small, why are you in business? What I mean is, why should a customer choose your product and reject the others? To get someone to buy a niche brand, they basically have to reject other brands first which get the shelf space and marketing support. If your company can't answer that question you're doomed to become irrelevant eventually. And if you don't plan on trying to grow the business by taking on some higher risk such as laying out the $ for a marketing campaign or trying some very unique viral marketing to build word of mouth, again you'll eventually become irrelevant. The big guys are just going to keep raising the cost to do business and compete in the market by investing money in R&D, marketing, securing channels, etc.

[Jason Harris 31]

It all comes down to a company's business strategy.  If you're small, why are you in business?  What I mean is, why should a customer choose your product and reject the others?  To get someone to buy a niche brand, they basically have to reject other brands first which get the shelf space and marketing support.  If your company can't answer that question you're doomed to become irrelevant eventually.  And if you don't plan on trying to grow the business by taking on some higher risk such as laying out the $ for a marketing campaign or trying some very unique viral marketing to build word of mouth, again you'll eventually become irrelevant.  The big guys are just going to keep raising the cost to do business and compete in the market by investing money in R&D, marketing, securing channels, etc.

I think the response to this is "The best laid plans....."

I think most small manufacturers believe there is something better about their product or company -- functionality, looks, price, service, etc -- and probably become shocked and dismayed when the product isn't instantly accepted. And the question quickly becomes whether the money will last.

I can only give you my example. I've done four tradeshows and picked up two retailers so far. I've advertised in the Hockey Business News for the past five issues and haven't received one phone call. I've visited a shop where I know the manager and owner well. The manager tells me, "Wow, I really like this stick......Man, this is nice... But we better ask The Man." And The Man says it's a great stick, but he doesn't want to carry a new brand.

So the projections on the business plan aren't skewing with reality and one has to ask why keep trying? Partially because of being in too deep. But more importantly, it's all the times of hearing, "Wow, I really like this stick......Man, this is nice... " I can't speak for other companies, but as long as the money doesn't run out, there's always the hope that the common refrain can finally become a groundswell that can sustain the business.

So, again, the best laid business plans don't always bear out.

[hockeyherb 1]

Excellent insight to the business - thanks for that.

Just goes to show The Man is pretty deep in the pocket of the big guys. I guess they don't want to end up at the bottom of the priority list when new product gets allocated by pissing them off and starting to carry good quality niche products.