black fighters

[cause4alarm 7]

It seems to me that a disproportionate number of black NHLers are fighters. Am I wrong?

edit: To avoid any confusion, I'd like to repose the question as

"Are a disproportionate number of black NHLers fighters?"

[Lester8 11]

Yes. In so many ways.

[cause4alarm 7]

So many ways? Please explain. I think the most number of ways I can be wrong here is one.

[Lester8 11]

Mainly, your argument regarding disproportion is baseless (wrong) since there is no stadard proportion for comparison purposes. Secondly, it is ignorant (read: wrong) to make broad generalisations based on skin color. Thirdly, it's for no one other than you to debate the existence of your illogical perceptions, so it was wrong for you to post is here.

Now let's count the wrongs. 1 was the "disproportionate" part, 2 was the "black" part, and then there was the "seems to me" part. What number comes after 2? Ok, so 3 ways you were wrong in just two sentences.

[cause4alarm 7]

If your second point is saying that it is socially ignorant and morally wrong for me to pose such a question, then I disagree. Would you say that it is ignorant and wrong to say that the NHL is disproportionately white relative to the population of North America?

In response to your third point, I apologize for the confusion, and rephrase the question, "Are a disproportionate number of black NHLers fighters?"

I'm trying to be objective here, so there's no need for condescension. If I'm being illogical, then please explain.

[cause4alarm 7]

Here's a list of skaters who have recently played in the NHL who are considered black:

Jarome Iginla, Jamal Mayers, Anson Carter, Mike Grier, Donald Brashear, Georges Laraque, Sean McMorrow, Nathan Robinson, Sandy McCarthy, Peter Worrell, Trevor Daley, Bryce Salvador, Sean Brown, Jason Doig, Jean-Luc Grand-Pierre, Rumun Ndur

Of the ones I'm familiar with, here are who I'd consider enforcers:

Mayers, Brashear, Laraque, McCarthy, Worrell

and not enforcers:

Iginla, Carter, Grier

As you can see, several of these players I wasn't really aware of before starting this thread, so you can see why it seemed disproportionate to me.

I looked up the stats of the other guys and if I had to split them out, I'd say McMorrow and Ndur could be called enforcers, Robinson and Daley are not, and the rest I'm not too sure about.

Let me know if I'm forgetting anyone or misclassifying anyone here. If you could familiarize me with the playing styles of the guys I don't know much about, that would be great too.

[Sniper15 0]

Iggy fights a good amount also.

[Quintin 16]

Who cares what colour skin they have? If they've got the will to fight, then so be it

[Jason Harris 31]

It's possible there's an institutional prejudice against black skaters, just like there had been originally against the Europeans. If this bias exists, it's likely that coaches along the way told the players they don't skate as well as Johnny, "....but you're a big kid......."

Stranger things have happened in our society.

[Lester8 11]

I'm surprised this topic is still here. But while it is, let me elaborate my points.

It's not the job of the NHL to resemble the diversity of any populace. So it's irrelevant whether it does or not. The NHL is made up of competitive hockey players who happen to have different skin color. Those players have the necessary skills to play in the NHL, and that's why they were brought in.

As for labeling and counting players, I don't know what great revelation you're looking for. Some guys fight a lot, others do not. They start and stop as they like and there's no quota that must be followed. Without a proportionate number, there cannot be a disproportionate number.

So skin color and ratios aside, the question doesn't need to be asked. Obviously people in the NHL fight. And they skate, and pass, and shoot.

It boils down to your perception, which is yours to deal with.

If the point was to learn more about certain players, then your topic should have specified them more precisely from the beginning.

[Jason Harris 31]

I think you may be missing his point -- or what I believe is his point. Regardless what their roles are, it seems he is questioning whether there is a racism in the NHL.

At least that's what I'm hearing, even though it's unspoken.

[mack 44]

I think it just needed to be clarified if the point I see he's trying to make is actually his point. I take it as a question that black players may be more prone to fighting.

[The Playoff Beard 0]

I think it's impossible to tell at this point since the sample space is so small. What are there 17 black players in the NHL, so if 4 or 5 of them are fighters then it's a whopping 25%. That's like questioning if a forward who makes 7 of their first 14 is the greatest shooter ever.

If it was 90 black players and 25 of them were fighters then it could be a telling statistic.

[DarkStar50 679]

And Russian players are more prone to scoring goals! This is stupid. If you have the skill and talent, you advance in the game. BTW, the leading scorer at National Champion U of Wisconsin was black.

[Eazy_b97 1]

And Russian players are more prone to scoring goals! This is stupid. If you have the skill and talent, you advance in the game. BTW, the leading scorer at National Champion U of Wisconsin was black.

... and supposedly anything, but a fighter. He's playing for the Marlies now in the AHL.

I know Worrell was only brought along for fighting. I'm pretty sure he wasn't even able to skate backwards when he first entered major junior (Q?), but the coach taught him enough to move around and just had him fight.

It's too small a sample size to give the claim any universal truths in my opinion.

[Chadd 916]

I think it's impossible to tell at this point since the sample space is so small. What are there 17 black players in the NHL, so if 4 or 5 of them are fighters then it's a whopping 25%. That's like questioning if a forward who makes 7 of their first 14 is the greatest shooter ever.

If it was 90 black players and 25 of them were fighters then it could be a telling statistic.

I'll have to agree with what I believe is your point. The sample size is too small to be relevant.

[badsk8ter 0]

I think it's impossible to tell at this point since the sample space is so small. What are there 17 black players in the NHL, so if 4 or 5 of them are fighters then it's a whopping 25%. That's like questioning if a forward who makes 7 of their first 14 is the greatest shooter ever.

If it was 90 black players and 25 of them were fighters then it could be a telling statistic.

I'll have to agree with what I believe is your point. The sample size is too small to be relevant.

Perhaps that's the very thing that he's talking about. That there are only 15-20 players in the NHL that are black but 1/4 or more are used primarily as enforcers or fighers for their teams.

[Chadd 916]

I think it's impossible to tell at this point since the sample space is so small. What are there 17 black players in the NHL, so if 4 or 5 of them are fighters then it's a whopping 25%. That's like questioning if a forward who makes 7 of their first 14 is the greatest shooter ever.

If it was 90 black players and 25 of them were fighters then it could be a telling statistic.

I'll have to agree with what I believe is your point. The sample size is too small to be relevant.

Perhaps that's the very thing that he's talking about. That there are only 15-20 players in the NHL that are black but 1/4 or more are used primarily as enforcers or fighers for their teams.

You're talking about a minority that makes up 2% of the entire Canadian population. Canada still provides over 50% of the players to the NHL. It's also not like the European nations who provide most of the players to the NHL are very diverse either. As the sport grows in the US, the makeup of the players will become more diverse. Until there is a larger statistical sampling, no accurate statistical conclusion can be drawn.

[bainsstatic 0]

To clear up the racism debate in this thread:

The OP is asking if there are a disproportiate number of black fighters in the NHL, which in other words, says "Many black people fight, why don't the ones in the NHL?" This comment IS in fact racist. I'm not pertubed by it but others might be. Blacks have an image that many of they are trying to play down (as being theives, fighters, etc.). Let's not continue this image. Although, I must agree that I would have expected more Blacks in the NHL to fight considering they're the enforcers (not necessarily because of their skin color).

[BigT 4]

To clear up the racism debate in this thread:

The OP is asking if there are a disproportiate number of black fighters in the NHL, which in other words, says "Many black people fight, why don't the ones in the NHL?" This comment IS in fact racist. I'm not pertubed by it but others might be. Blacks have an image that many of they are trying to play down (as being theives, fighters, etc.). Let's not continue this image. Although, I must agree that I would have expected more Blacks in the NHL to fight considering they're the enforcers (not necessarily because of their skin color).

um, of the few players that are black, most are used as tough guys, do fight and are not all that skilled....i would like to see more "dancin anson" and iggy type black players come along...that being said, i don't care what skin color ne one is, i just want good players in the show

[Chadd 916]

To clear up the racism debate in this thread:

The OP is asking if there are a disproportiate number of black fighters in the NHL, which in other words, says "Many black people fight, why don't the ones in the NHL?" This comment IS in fact racist. I'm not pertubed by it but others might be. Blacks have an image that many of they are trying to play down (as being theives, fighters, etc.). Let's not continue this image. Although, I must agree that I would have expected more Blacks in the NHL to fight considering they're the enforcers (not necessarily because of their skin color).

That is not how I read the question. To me it was more like:

The percentage of black players who are enforcers seems to be an abnormally high.

I think the real answer has many facets and in very few cases does racism have anything to do with it.

[DarkStar50 679]

I repeat my ridiculous point: This is like saying an abnormally high number of Russian players score goals, not assists or fights or have high number of penalty minutes. This is a thread going nowhere.

[Chadd 916]

I repeat my ridiculous point: This is like saying an abnormally high number of Russian players score goals, not assists or fights or have high number of penalty minutes. This is a thread going nowhere.

Russians don't pass so they only get assists on rebounds. ;)

You're right though, this is starting to fulfill it's potential for devolving.

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

Yes, this thread is going nowhere...obviously I have an opinion based on first-hand experiences but I really don't want to go down that road.

[The Playoff Beard 0]

So are we closing this thread ?

Currently, 'Alarm is right in saying that there is a very high percentage of black players that fight is currently true, but only because there aren't that many black players, so anything black people do is going make a huge swing in the percentages. Lets say 4 more finesse guys come in, then it may be perfectly balanced, because of FOUR players. The real question should be how come there aren't that many black players in the NHL, or are playing hockey period?

I do slightly feel that the reason that this was posted, was to ask "Since black people are violent in regular life, is this why there are a lot of black fighters in the NHL?". Which is crap and I hope I'm totally wrong about the way I read the topic.