College Club Hockey

[johnson74 0]

I am most familiar with d2 but I think top 4 any region d2 would be better than most junior b hockey clubs that I have seen (which admittingly isn't a ton since jungle b hockey doesn't really appeal to me all that much). I haven't seen a lot of ACHA d1 clubs play but I have seen how most match-ups between ACHA d1 and d2 teams are won by the d1 team. So I would assume an even greater number of those teams would be better than most junior B clubs. It seems that many of the players at the ACHA d1 level have junior A hockey experience.

[Gongshow11 1]

http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?t=56545

discussion over.

[Project824 0]

I might have a thing or two to add here...

I spend some time on this board because it's a great information source on a lot of new equipment... some of the guys on this board get a lot of this new equipment around the same time we do. I try to keep a low profile to keep things clear on the business end - anonymity is a good thing. Anyway, my background: I played prep, US Jr. B and then Jr. A in the BCHL. Played NCAA D1, couple years of minor pro, and then got into coaching and scouting - NCAA, Junior, and then made a stop at a bigger ACHA D1 school, which also had a ACHA D2 team. Just finished the year on board with an ECHL team. I feel that I've seen a lot of hockey. I'd question whether some of the folks arguing here have truly seen the other - whether it's the NCAA guy talking down on club without having seen a top team, or the club guy talking up club without having seen an NCAA D3.

Top ACHA (club) D1 schools are very much on par with a FEW low end NCAA D1s and middle pack D3's. When I say top ACHA D1s, I'm only talking about 4 teams - PSU, Ohio U, Illinois and Rhode Island. That is the ONLY competition for the ACHA Championship, and only because they are run like varsity programs. They beat up on the rest of the ACHA and so would a better NCAA D3 program. Would they beat NCAA D3 teams regularly? No. But NCAA D3s wouldn't beat them regularly neither. Keep in mind it's really only those 4 teams.

Top ACHA D2 schools, mainly the ones in the Northeast and Michigan, are on the level of middle-low end NCAA D3s, more towards the lower end. They won't beat SUNYAC teams, but regularly do play ECAC opponents with success. Again, neither party is necessarily dominant.

As far as Jr. B, most top ACHA D1 and D2 schools are much better. Many of the better teams do have many kids who played in the NAHL, Jr. A in Canada, and on occasion, the USHL. Of course they're not the kids who will get drafted as 19 year olds. But there are a few who slip through the cracks, or wanted a degree that said Penn State or Illinois on it instead of Curry College, or Neumann College. Something tells me they may have had a better time at a big state school instead of a small town school with 4000 students as well. Fact of the matter is, with a rink on campus, big time NCAA weight and training facilities and oftentimes games in front of crowds of 1000-3000 fans, a kid who knows he's not going to the show might be sold.

We've also had a few club players come through to the pros. Not a lot, and far fewer than NCAA D3 and obviously D1, but enough, and the ones that I've seen more than hold their own. Club hockey will NEVER eclipse NCAA hockey, but there is talent out there. And as always, there is always a little bit of truth to a rumor - the bottom end of club hockey, ACHA D1, D2 or D3 - is very much beer league hockey, and there are some very terrible club hockey teams in non-hockey areas.

[Trooper 8]

Project824 summed it up nicely.

[johnson74 0]

great post project824. Thank you for your insight.

[rogue 0]

My school used to have a club team. Then came Title IX.

That's interesting that you say that, since I skate with the JV coach at CU, and he said the reason they are a club team is they don't have to comply with Title IX requirements.

I'm not sure whether Title IX requires that schools offer the same sports for both sexes, but I'm pretty confident it requires that the athletic departments spend the same amount of money on both sexes. Since most sports are a net loss for a school, they'll sanction club teams rather than spend the money for both sexes.

I'm not entirely sure how it works, I just found out a little bit when I was trying to find out why my school doesnt have a mens hockey team anymore. I believe Title IX requires the percentages of funding to be proportional to the make up of the student body. At my college its 3:2 female:male.

I know its not that the same sports are required for both sexes because interestingly enough my school has a women's team but no men's.

[Gongshow11 1]

i dont think title 9 works in club hockey as its an NCAA rule. I thought club hockey was funded either byt he players, or by the players and recreational serivces, or whoever controlls the clubs on campus. Usually when title 9 happens, sports turn into club sports, no?

[freq019 0]

i dont think title 9 works in club hockey as its an NCAA rule. I thought club hockey was funded either byt he players, or by the players and recreational serivces, or whoever controlls the clubs on campus. Usually when title 9 happens, sports turn into club sports, no?

That's the way I understood it, rogue maybe you don't have a team anymore because the person or persons who organized it are gone?

[rogue 0]

i dont think title 9 works in club hockey as its an NCAA rule. I thought club hockey was funded either byt he players, or by the players and recreational serivces, or whoever controlls the clubs on campus. Usually when title 9 happens, sports turn into club sports, no?

That's the way I understood it, rogue maybe you don't have a team anymore because the person or persons who organized it are gone?

Interesting... excuse me while i go kill the person whole told me it was title IX

[Wayne 0]

Fact of the matter is, with a rink on campus, big time NCAA weight and training facilities and oftentimes games in front of crowds of 1000-3000 fans, a kid who knows he's not going to the show might be sold.

You're EXACTLY correct on this point

[Wayne 0]

Just bringing up an old topic to benefit some of those who havent seen it before. FSN Detroit did a special on Oakland University's DI ACHA (club) Hockey team. May help kids deciding whether or not to go to college to continue their hockey careers.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16tyr_ou...-on-fsn-detroit

[BigT 4]

good little segment there

[TheSnake22 0]

I just read over this thread as it's before my time. Good stuff all around. I had the option to go up to some schools in wisconsin to play dIII or play club at a school of my choice. i chose club, and i know a lot of players that went the other way and chose dIII. obviously there are pro's and con's to both, but from my personal experience, the dedication at division III is the biggest difference more than skill when talking about the better club schools imo. but make no mistake there is plenty of talent in club hockey.

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Just bringing up an old topic to benefit some of those who havent seen it before. FSN Detroit did a special on Oakland University's DI ACHA (club) Hockey team. May help kids deciding whether or not to go to college to continue their hockey careers.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16tyr_ou...-on-fsn-detroit

Haha I know those clowns...nah, Hogan, Coop and Will are good guys.

When I moved up here to MI I ran the store at the Onyx so I know all about the OU team. The hockey isn't very good but for the level that they play at, they do well.

[Trooper 8]

Just bringing up an old topic to benefit some of those who havent seen it before. FSN Detroit did a special on Oakland University's DI ACHA (club) Hockey team. May help kids deciding whether or not to go to college to continue their hockey careers.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16tyr_ou...-on-fsn-detroit

Haha I know those clowns...nah, Hogan, Coop and Will are good guys.

When I moved up here to MI I ran the store at the Onyx so I know all about the OU team. The hockey isn't very good but for the level that they play at, they do well.

Oakland's a very good team. How can you say the level isn't any good? The top ACHA DI teams are as good as a lot of NCAA DIII teams.

[warrior37 0]

no its not

[Wayne 0]

I'm not going to get into the debate over DIII vs. ACHA. But there are some very solid ACHA teams, and there are some very week teams. Club hockey offers an alternative for students who prefer to be just that, STUDENTS, and who know they won't play professionally, but play simply for the love of the game.

I believe there have been games between ACHA teams and NCAA Div III teams, and some of the lower tier DI teams. Does anyone have anything on this?

[Wayne 0]

I looked into the games played by ACHA teams vs. NCAA teams. I'm not saying either way, but simply presenting these as facts.

All of these scores were taken from the ACHAhockey.org website.

Penn State (ACHA DI) 0 - Robert Morris University (NCAA DI) 6

Oswego State (ACHA DI) 8 - Hobart College (NCAA DIII) 3

Oswego State (ACHA DI) 8 - Hobart College (NCAA DIII) 5

Binghamton University (ACHA DI) 6 - Hobart College (NCAA DIII) 2

Syracuse University (ACHA DI) 5 - Freedonia State(NCAA DIII) 3

Rhode Island (ACHA DI) 3 - Wesleyan University(NCAA DIII) 4

Rhode Island (ACHA DI) 6 - Wooster State(NCAA DIII) 3

[Project824 0]

I looked into the games played by ACHA teams vs. NCAA teams. I'm not saying either way, but simply presenting these as facts.

All of these scores were taken from the ACHAhockey.org website.

Penn State (ACHA DI) 0 - Robert Morris University (NCAA DI) 6

Oswego State (ACHA DI) 8 - Hobart College (NCAA DIII) 3

Oswego State (ACHA DI) 8 - Hobart College (NCAA DIII) 5

Binghamton University (ACHA DI) 6 - Hobart College (NCAA DIII) 2

Syracuse University (ACHA DI) 5 - Freedonia State(NCAA DIII) 3

Rhode Island (ACHA DI) 3 - Wesleyan University(NCAA DIII) 4

Rhode Island (ACHA DI) 6 - Wooster State(NCAA DIII) 3

There's no way that Syracuse beat SUNY-Fredonia's NCAA DIII team. Syracuse can barely skate, and Fredonia's one of the better DIII teams out there. Fredonia has a club team that can barely skate as well. With the exception of Penn State-RMU and URI-Wesleyan/URI-Wooster, those games were all against Fredonia and Hobart's club teams, who are non ACHA affiliated. Keep in mind that those happen to be ACHA wins, URI also played in a NCAA DIII tournament this year and got housed by every team they played.

[Gongshow11 1]

I looked into the games played by ACHA teams vs. NCAA teams. I'm not saying either way, but simply presenting these as facts.

All of these scores were taken from the ACHAhockey.org website.

Penn State (ACHA DI) 0 - Robert Morris University (NCAA DI) 6

Oswego State (ACHA DI) 8 - Hobart College (NCAA DIII) 3

Oswego State (ACHA DI) 8 - Hobart College (NCAA DIII) 5

Binghamton University (ACHA DI) 6 - Hobart College (NCAA DIII) 2

Syracuse University (ACHA DI) 5 - Freedonia State(NCAA DIII) 3

Rhode Island (ACHA DI) 3 - Wesleyan University(NCAA DIII) 4

Rhode Island (ACHA DI) 6 - Wooster State(NCAA DIII) 3

besides the penn state score, every other one is old. Hobart is nationally ranked in d3 and will never loose to Oswego state club when they can beat the NCAA team. Fredonia will not lose to syracuse ever,a s they have a 40 pts scorer on their team.

to say club is comparable to NCAA is ridiculous, and in fact frustrates/angers me. If you're good enough to play NCAA, you play, otherwise you go club. I consider d1 club d4 NCAA.

[Wayne 0]

That makes more sense to me. I thought Freedonia was generally pretty solid, and for Hobart to get beaten so often by ACHA teams, I was wondering why they would even submit themselves to a lose-lose situation.

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Just bringing up an old topic to benefit some of those who havent seen it before. FSN Detroit did a special on Oakland University's DI ACHA (club) Hockey team. May help kids deciding whether or not to go to college to continue their hockey careers.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16tyr_ou...-on-fsn-detroit

Haha I know those clowns...nah, Hogan, Coop and Will are good guys.

When I moved up here to MI I ran the store at the Onyx so I know all about the OU team. The hockey isn't very good but for the level that they play at, they do well.

Oakland's a very good team. How can you say the level isn't any good? The top ACHA DI teams are as good as a lot of NCAA DIII teams.

When I was at Rochester they were DII - they were heads and shoulders better than most of the competition, but I wasn't that impressed. I am sure the competition is much better at the D1 level.

[jcutender24 0]

first i would like to add my 2 cents to the discussion. When you evaluate the top ACHA schools: PSU, OU, URI, Illinois, they can compete at the NCAA D3 level. They wouldnt touch the national title contenders. But with that said they have the ability to play at that level. And on occasion they can beat low level NCAA D1 teams like RMU was as a new team last year. To add to the convo the reason that these teams dont go to NCAA is because of funding and title 9. And to those who think they wouldnt compete at the D1 level, for example, they are mistaken because they wouldnt go into a season with the same kids they had playing club they would fill their roster with NCAA caliber players. I dont think that was made clear before.

[chilaxin12 2]

I looked into the games played by ACHA teams vs. NCAA teams. I'm not saying either way, but simply presenting these as facts.

All of these scores were taken from the ACHAhockey.org website.

Penn State (ACHA DI) 0 - Robert Morris University (NCAA DI) 6

Oswego State (ACHA DI) 8 - Hobart College (NCAA DIII) 3

Oswego State (ACHA DI) 8 - Hobart College (NCAA DIII) 5

Binghamton University (ACHA DI) 6 - Hobart College (NCAA DIII) 2

Syracuse University (ACHA DI) 5 - Freedonia State(NCAA DIII) 3

Rhode Island (ACHA DI) 3 - Wesleyan University(NCAA DIII) 4

Rhode Island (ACHA DI) 6 - Wooster State(NCAA DIII) 3

besides the penn state score, every other one is old. Hobart is nationally ranked in d3 and will never loose to Oswego state club when they can beat the NCAA team. Fredonia will not lose to syracuse ever,a s they have a 40 pts scorer on their team.

to say club is comparable to NCAA is ridiculous, and in fact frustrates/angers me. If you're good enough to play NCAA, you play, otherwise you go club. I consider d1 club d4 NCAA.

Yea but I think you get so frustrated with it because you play NCAA D-3 and you would hate to think that there are better kids than kids that play NCAA out there. One of my good friends, was recruited by AIC/UCONN/Canisus and a few other low level D1 teams and most D3 teams, He played in the NAHL, AJHL, was drafted to the QMJHL as a 16 year old and guess what he plays D2 club, why because instead of living the dream he works and goes to school for civil engineering, not all of us can afford to live the dream on mommy and daddys penny. This if you are good enough for NCAA D3 you will go is crap, I got offered a spot on some lower level D2/D3 teams, teams that constantly finish under .500 and would it be nice to say I played NCAA D3 sure, I'd rather however get a good education from a good school in my state and play some hockey while i'm doing it. And Morrisville State Mustangs, NCAA D3 Independent only beat Penn State Berks (A sub campus of Penn State) 5-2 and PSU Berks is ACHA D3 and are only the 4th ranked team in their region. Your argument is extremely biased by the fact that you play D3, sure the majority of better players go NCAA, but theres a few college teams that i'm sure would beat whatever school you play at.

[Gongshow11 1]

ok ill say there are maybe 5 club teams who could compete, besides that club is watered down. I know there are better kids than NCAA, but they are not in club.

p.s. mommy and daddy dont pay for me. Having good academics and loans helps