One90 Tendon Guard

[ag12 0]

Oh and you don't realize how many dealers are pissed with MIA for doing that. It completely takes away the business for all the shops.

yeah lost a customer today to that customizer on the site with the price on there. asked why should i pay u 240 for the glove when i can buy it for like 200. now back to the tendon guard i can see where your coming form ag12 about wanting something specific but im not sure if this has been stated yet but if you want the tendon guard abit stiffer why not just buy a stock pair and have your LHS modify the tendon guard for like 20-30bucks hard to say exactly by putting some leather there if thats all you want

Although i agree with most your argument is overall a silly one but sogaduch has the best idea so far why pay extra from the factory when you can get it modified for much less at a good shop like his!

Oh I know it's a silly one, since I'm getting plenty of resistance to the idea, but most people don't like the idea of change or challenging their existing processes. People get to used to a way of doing things (and I'm not talking about product innovation here) that when a new idea from the outside rather than within the hockey circles is looked upon as asinine. Bauer or another mfg can setup their shop to handle such requests as part of the normal business routine, most mfg in most industries build to order per the customer’s request. Some car mfgs have no raw matl inventory in their production facilities; they build to order the day’s request by sourcing from nearby suppliers. Why build/purchase a bunch of skates with the old economies of scale business model? You walk into any shop today and there is a section now of skates that didn't sell well, unsold inventory is not a good thing. I went into a shop near here last week and saw a stack of unsold 8090's for example. Look at all the online stores trying to get rid of old modeled skates. And of all people to resist my idea it's the shop owner who is sitting on that unsold inventory. When your cash is in unsold inventory it's not making money for you, it's sitting there collecting dust on the floor........ So who wins, well maybe everyone, the mfg will probably have to adjust some of their processes but now the skate shop maybe has to order less to satisfy those who are happy with the generic model, they can attend those who want custom as part of a normal process. In my mind getting custom is sidebar right now, but it may actually benefit everyone............. This is probably a crazy idea for some, but it's how a lot of business is done today, cater to what the customer wants.....

[Chadd 916]

Building skates to order is not nearly as profitable and shops would lose even more sales to the online superstores.

[ag12 0]

Building skates to order is not nearly as profitable and shops would lose even more sales to the online superstores.

And so holding on stacks and stacks of unsold skates like Peranis in Flint, MI is good for their business also? They are losing alot of money with all the unsold equipment they have sitting in that large store. So tell me what is better? 1.Taking a large hit to the bottom line when they end up having to scrap the unsold inventory? or 2. Taking a less profit on a custom skate order and not have it sit on your sales floor ever? It seems like a win win situation to me.......... Plus a mfg like Bauer doesn't have to source and store unneeded material that will end up collecting dust as on the sales floor in Flint, they end up a hit too, be it a small one.

[Cheesehead 0]

Well maybe it should be spinning, I'm taking the product to the task and the responses that I'm getting are not satisfactory for the price that is being asked. Have you in your job ever been taken to task over what you do? Has someone ever put your feet to the fire? That's what I'm doing here, if that's not appreciated then fine, I guess in this case the customer isn't right. If you buy an expensive car do you drive away from the dealership and never go back? No, you expect something for the sizable investment you have just made, that's certainly not true with skates for sure. So my point is that the price and product are lacking in balance. Also, I'm realizing that this maybe the wrong place for discussing this issue since the people on this board don't have the power to impact mfgers choices to consumers anyway. So this in some ways has been much ado about nothing.

if your feet are on fire, maybe you have athletes foot, and need some tough actin tanactin.

also one thing to remember is that its your money that you are spending not somebody else chosing what you are gonna buy. if you dont like the tendon gaurds(imo they sounds great) dont buy the skates. if you do buy the skates, suck it up. Maybe these just arent the skates for you.

[Chadd 916]

Building skates to order is not nearly as profitable and shops would lose even more sales to the online superstores.

And so holding on stacks and stacks of unsold skates like Peranis in Flint, MI is good for their business also? They are losing alot of money with all the unsold equipment they have sitting in that large store. So tell me what is better? 1.Taking a large hit to the bottom line when they end up having to scrap the unsold inventory? or 2. Taking a less profit on a custom skate order and not have it sit on your sales floor ever? It seems like a win win situation to me.......... Plus a mfg like Bauer doesn't have to source and store unneeded material that will end up collecting dust as on the sales floor in Flint, they end up a hit too, be it a small one.

Two different angles here:

Shops - Stores like Peranis who end up with closeouts usually end up buying the closeouts at a discount from the manufacturer. They still turn a profit on virtually every pair they sell. Maybe the last few pairs are at or below cost. Smart shops have a very good idea how many skates they will sell before they place their order in the winter.

Manufacturers - Even the skates they sell to Peranis or Giant or Monkey at closeout are still at or above manufacturing cost. Potential profit is lost but not "real money" in most cases.

[DarkStar50 679]

Ag,

If you ever saw the size of the NBH skate facility in Quebec, you would quickly realize that your custom idea is not practical. As for your one month custom make-ups, be grateful. Its easy to look at this business from the outside and say what should be. I have been on the inside over 25 years and know what can be and what simply put, cannot.

I'm with Chadd: It is the foolish and inexperienced LHS buyer who goes overboard in skates, OPS, whatever, who has only himself to blame for lost dollars and dead inventory. Stores like Perani's have the close-out model figured out from a long time ago. Probably 10, 15 years of experience now under their belts. It may look like a disaster to you but they are still in business, aren't they?

[ag12 0]

Building skates to order is not nearly as profitable and shops would lose even more sales to the online superstores.

And so holding on stacks and stacks of unsold skates like Peranis in Flint, MI is good for their business also? They are losing alot of money with all the unsold equipment they have sitting in that large store. So tell me what is better? 1.Taking a large hit to the bottom line when they end up having to scrap the unsold inventory? or 2. Taking a less profit on a custom skate order and not have it sit on your sales floor ever? It seems like a win win situation to me.......... Plus a mfg like Bauer doesn't have to source and store unneeded material that will end up collecting dust as on the sales floor in Flint, they end up a hit too, be it a small one.

Two different angles here:

Shops - Stores like Peranis who end up with closeouts usually end up buying the closeouts at a discount from the manufacturer. They still turn a profit on virtually every pair they sell. Maybe the last few pairs are at or below cost. Smart shops have a very good idea how many skates they will sell before they place their order in the winter.

Manufacturers - Even the skates they sell to Peranis or Giant or Monkey at closeout are still at or above manufacturing cost. Potential profit is lost but not "real money" in most cases.

I understand that process and if that's the way they run their business then more power too them. But when I was in Flint I saw alot of 2002 Bauer 7000s sitting there along with other older models, if you are looking at inventory turnover ratios that doesn't factor in very well in my opinion. If you are looking for older equipment it's a great place to go, its like a scrap yard for equipment. Someone may buy it or it dies. They are still making some money out of the deal, but there is alot of time and effort for a small return on both ends.

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

Do you live in MI? If so, we can put this to rest. I can get you a test skate in a pair of ONE90s.

BTW - if you prefer direct-to-consumer sales, how the hell are you going to know if the skate fits?

[ag12 0]

Ag,

If you ever saw the size of the NBH skate facility in Quebec, you would quickly realize that your custom idea is not practical. As for your one month custom make-ups, be grateful. Its easy to look at this business from the outside and say what should be. I have been on the inside over 25 years and know what can be and what simply put, cannot.

I'm with Chadd: It is the foolish and inexperienced LHS buyer who goes overboard in skates, OPS, whatever, who has only himself to blame for lost dollars and dead inventory. Stores like Perani's have the close-out model figured out from a long time ago. Probably 10, 15 years of experience now under their belts. It may look like a disaster to you but they are still in business, aren't they?

Well that some new information for me, but therein lies the problem. It's not a flexible facility to support such a venture, but maybe it should consider expanding or moving to a new facility if it wants to move along with the times. If they are going to keep producing top end skates as the One90 and charge what they are charging then they should be equiped to meet customer demands. Otherwise they will continue to source materials, convert them into a FG that will end up collecting dust on the sales floor as those Bauer 7000s. But then again I'm an outsider so take all this with a grain of salt.

[ag12 0]

Do you live in MI? If so, we can put this to rest. I can get you a test skate in a pair of ONE90s.

BTW - if you prefer direct-to-consumer sales, how the hell are you going to know if the skate fits?

No I live in MA, but I have family in MI. You do have a point about direct-to-consumer sales for skates, I agree it wouldn't work very well.

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

I figured as much. You mentioned working for a personal care company. My guess was Gillette, which is based in MA. Looks like I was right.

[ag12 0]

I figured as much. You mentioned working for a personal care company. My guess was Gillette, which is based in MA. Looks like I was right.

I'll have to say your right, nice work connecting the dots. :)

I hope your not taking offense to my over critical posts about this skate. I realize you guys make your living off selling these things, but i felt the need to speak up when the price is what is. I'm not trying to make this personal in any way. Like i said earlier I like everything about the skate except for the tendon guard, and when I hand my cc to the cashier I want to be 100% satisfied with what i'm walking out of the store with.

[TBLfan 25]

I figured as much.  You mentioned working for a personal care company.  My guess was Gillette, which is based in MA.  Looks like I was right.

I'll have to say your right, nice work connecting the dots. :)

I hope your not taking offense to my over critical posts about this skate. I realize you guys make your living off selling these things, but i felt the need to speak up when the price is what is. I'm not trying to make this personal in any way. Like i said earlier I like everything about the skate except for the tendon guard, and when I hand my cc to the cashier I want to be 100% satisfied with what i'm walking out of the store with.

as you should be! I know my issues with your post(s) were that you were assuming something and stating that assumption as a fact.

On the bright side now previous lines of Bauer skates are pretty much on clearance so you could pick up a new pair for about half of the cost of one90s... then you can buy yourself a Stealth CNT too :P

[oldtrainerguy28 478]

I figured as much.  You mentioned working for a personal care company.  My guess was Gillette, which is based in MA.  Looks like I was right.

I'll have to say your right, nice work connecting the dots. :)

I hope your not taking offense to my over critical posts about this skate. I realize you guys make your living off selling these things, but i felt the need to speak up when the price is what is. I'm not trying to make this personal in any way. Like i said earlier I like everything about the skate except for the tendon guard, and when I hand my cc to the cashier I want to be 100% satisfied with what i'm walking out of the store with.

Dont think your concers are over the top but......the idea of knowing that you can get custom work done after is much more appealing to me then waiting 4 weeks for someone to do something you can have done in front of your eyes and be sure its exactley what you want.

Also JR's idea of trying a pair would be a good way to sort out your concerns as well!

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

I figured as much.  You mentioned working for a personal care company.  My guess was Gillette, which is based in MA.  Looks like I was right.

I'll have to say your right, nice work connecting the dots. :)

Now...any razor that has more than two blades is junk. I shave my head every day and Mach3 and above just sucks...Sensor Excel is where it's at...

[ag12 0]

I figured as much.  You mentioned working for a personal care company.  My guess was Gillette, which is based in MA.  Looks like I was right.

I'll have to say your right, nice work connecting the dots. :)

I hope your not taking offense to my over critical posts about this skate. I realize you guys make your living off selling these things, but i felt the need to speak up when the price is what is. I'm not trying to make this personal in any way. Like i said earlier I like everything about the skate except for the tendon guard, and when I hand my cc to the cashier I want to be 100% satisfied with what i'm walking out of the store with.

as you should be! I know my issues with your post(s) were that you were assuming something and stating that assumption as a fact.

On the bright side now previous lines of Bauer skates are pretty much on clearance so you could pick up a new pair for about half of the cost of one90s... then you can buy yourself a Stealth CNT too :P

Unfortunately some of my assumptions where based upon purchasing earlier top line Bauer skates only to be dissappointed in some way. But who knows maybe eventually i'll get pair, and if I like them i'll let you guys know and take a slice of humble pie.

Yes oldtrainerguy28 maybe i should consider that route.

[ag12 0]

I figured as much.  You mentioned working for a personal care company.  My guess was Gillette, which is based in MA.  Looks like I was right.

I'll have to say your right, nice work connecting the dots. :)

Now...any razor that has more than two blades is junk. I shave my head every day and Mach3 and above just sucks...Sensor Excel is where it's at...

I agree with you, many people said to me while I was working there that they liked the Excel the best also. I'm just waiting for them to get to 10 blades someday!

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

SNL did a skit on that..called it the Mach 10...shaved so close, right down to the jawbone.

[DarkStar50 679]

I think Gillette should offer custom left handed razors with more flexible blades and the ability to state the exact number of blades with a specific degree of sharpness. Why aren't they listening to me? I am a consumer. I know they can do this. I think this is bs that they don't offer this to every person in the world. I do not think I am being unreasonable. I have been buying Gillette products for over 30 years. When I buy a car, I get to haggle over price and get special options. Why doesn't Gillette do this? I also want to specify the color of the handle. Its only plastic, how difficult could this be? They charge an awful lot of money for the razors and replacement blades. If I am going to spend all this money on shaving, I think I have the right to not only demand this, but insist on it.

[Project824 0]

I want a 5 bladed razor with a diamond crusted handle and a built in shaving cream dispenser... make it happen.

Sorry if this takes us back a bit, but the car argument is hardly a good one... we're talking about $600 skates and $20,000 cars. In auto sales, there is a margin built in for negotiating, along with many more factors. The average consumer will be paying for a car for 5-10 years, at a certain interest rate, value of a trade-in, etc. It is also very rare for the car you want to buy to come completely built to your specification straight from the factory, short of an Aston Martin, or other high end, exclusive model. Chances are the dealer will find you one that is closest and try to accomodate the rest of your options. Cars are made in enough trims, colors, interiors and options that there is usually a close match... in numbers and combinations determined by each manufacturer to cover most needs. Hate to break it to you, but your car happened to be a match for the options you wanted, they didn't build it for you.

Along the same lines, people at Bauer, CCM, shoe companies, etc., determine specs and options on skates or shoes that will suit the majority of users. You have your option to go custom, and you have stock. Pick one of the two, or there's plenty of other brands out there.

A side note - I received a custom pair of One90s last week. Very impressive pair of skates, the hype about the formability of the boot is dead on. At the advice of DS50, I opted not to get my usual thick felt tongue and Tuuk Custom+ holders, and instead went virtually stock on all options, with the exception of stiffness and 1/4 sizing. The tongue is an interesting idea, seems to work pretty well at about half the weight of felt. I'll probably redo the radius and pitch on them, I just can't adjust coming from an 8 ft. forward pitch Graf 705. I can't say that I expect great durability out of this pair, even with added stiffness, but that is where performance skates have gone these days.

And the tendon guard? Out of the box, it feels a lot like the tendon guards on my old Bauer Supreme Custom 3000s or Comps after they'd been broken in - flexible to snap your toe at the end of a stride. The part about using a stiff tendon guard for leverage is garbage, you use your edges to grip the ice for leverage.

[ag12 0]

I think Gillette should offer custom left handed razors with more flexible blades and the ability to state the exact number of blades with a specific degree of sharpness. Why aren't they listening to me? I am a consumer. I know they can do this. I think this is bs that they don't offer this to every person in the world. I do not think I am being unreasonable. I have been buying Gillette products for over 30 years. When I buy a car, I get to haggle over price and get special options. Why doesn't Gillette do this? I also want to specify the color of the handle. Its only plastic, how difficult could this be? They charge an awful lot of money for the razors and replacement blades. If I am going to spend all this money on shaving, I think I have the right to not only demand this, but insist on it.

I think Gillette should offer custom left handed razors with more flexible blades and the ability to state the exact number of blades with a specific degree of sharpness. Why aren't they listening to me? I am a consumer. I know they can do this. I think this is bs that they don't offer this to every person in the world. I do not think I am being unreasonable. I have been buying Gillette products for over 30 years. When I buy a car, I get to haggle over price and get special options. Why doesn't Gillette do this? I also want to specify the color of the handle. Its only plastic, how difficult could this be? They charge an awful lot of money for the razors and replacement blades. If I am going to spend all this money on shaving, I think I have the right to not only demand this, but insist on it.

Unfortunately you have to ask someone else that question, I'm no longer employed by the Big G. :) But you do have a point, which one can ask why did they ever produce the Mach3 when plenty of people were happy with the Excel. So maybe we can make a comparison between razors and skates (I will agree that my comparison to car production is a bit of a stretch). JR made the point earlier that he was happy with the Excel, now gillette is producing razors that vibrate, are you kidding me!! At some point I believe you tap the consumer and the technology out. And I suppose if Gillette shipped JR a pallet of Excels he probably be pretty happy. As for the One90 I feel Bauer has reached a limit in terms of price, why not ask for something more since we have this forum (maybe someone should start up a personal care message board to address the issues of consumers in that area). But I am surprised that Bauer is producing such a cutting edge skate in what appears to be a very old and small production facility, I envisoned that these things were being produced in a state of the art facility, but you learn something new everyday, and it works for them I guess. Anyway, I don't want to keep this thread going and going, but I'll have to say I've learned a few things and I guess that's what this board is intended to do. :)

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

Essentially, it all boils down to what the customer likes. And in this case, while I like the twin blades, someone may like the 5-blade one. But I've tried it, and based my opinion on that. I think you owe it to yourself to try the skate first.

[ag12 0]

Essentially, it all boils down to what the customer likes. And in this case, while I like the twin blades, someone may like the 5-blade one. But I've tried it, and based my opinion on that. I think you owe it to yourself to try the skate first.

I agree with you on that one 100%, it's just that to use the comparison be it apples and oranges so to speak; a Fusion razor is alot cheaper than the One90, so if you don't like the razor you are only out $15 rather than $600 if I don't like the One90. Like I noted earlier I may eventually try it, but that $600 price tag and the tendon guard is a bit of a sticking point for me at the moment, and no I can't be completely objective about the skate until I actually skate in it.

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

Essentially, it all boils down to what the customer likes.  And in this case, while I like the twin blades, someone may like the 5-blade one.    But I've tried it, and based my opinion on that.  I think you owe it to yourself to try the skate first.

I agree with you on that one 100%, it's just that to use the comparison be it apples and oranges so to speak; a Fusion razor is alot cheaper than the One90, so if you don't like the razor you are only out $15 rather than $600 if I don't like the One90. Like I noted earlier I may eventually try it, but that $600 price tag and the tendon guard is a bit of a sticking point for me at the moment, and no I can't be completely objective about the skate until I actually skate in it.

No, but I bet Gillette is making much greater margins on it than NBH is on the skate.

[Reaper 0]

I figured as much.  You mentioned working for a personal care company.  My guess was Gillette, which is based in MA.  Looks like I was right.

I'll have to say your right, nice work connecting the dots. :)

Now...any razor that has more than two blades is junk. I shave my head every day and Mach3 and above just sucks...Sensor Excel is where it's at...

I agree when it comes to shaving your head. Two blades are all you need. When I shaved my head every day I preferred the Schick Protector because it bends in the middle.

When it comes to shaving my face the Mach III Turbo seems to be the upper limit for me. The Schick Quattro does nothing but give me raw skin with a lot of ingrown hairs. When the Gillette Fusion came out I commented that all you have to do is take it out of the package for your face to start oozing blood. :D