Composite shaft design idea

[ktang 34]

I was looking at some players shooting slapshots and snap shots with OPSes, and seeing the occasional shot veer off because (I think) the shaft torqued because the blade made initial contact too far from the heel.

It looks like most composite shafts (or at least the ones I've seen up-close with the paint flaked off) have the fibres running longitudinally. Graphite is strong in tension, but weaker in compression.

What if the carbon mat were applied so that most of the fibres run with a slight twist? That might reduce some of the torque, but still allow a low flex point. A LH shaft would twist one way (probably counter-clockwise looking down the shaft from the butt to the blade), and a RH shaft would twist the other way.

The amount of twist could also be adjusted to the type of blade, probably less twist for a heel curve and more for a mid curve.

The twist would be gentle, probably like the rifling in the lans and grooves of firearm barrels.

The twisted carbon fibres might be applied only from slightly above the flex point to the heel.

[mack 44]

Congratulations, you have made the post that will be the most least understood one in our history. Good ideas though, I'm a victim of torquing.

[QandA 0]

I understand his concept and I'm curious to see how that would actually work. I don't know if sciences have any influence on this idea but it is creative.

[marc_9 0]

that sounds like it might work you should suggest that to a company or somebody who designs and or makes sticks see what they think

[DamnLocust 0]

I was looking at some players shooting slapshots and snap shots with OPSes, and seeing the occasional shot veer off because (I think) the shaft torqued because the blade made initial contact too far from the heel.

If making contact in the wrong place is the reason for torquing and shots veering off target, it seems that there will still be the issue of the player not having proper shooting tecnique.

Other than that, I get the idea, and I agree that it could help reduce torqueing, but it would seem to be an expensive experiment in the world of OPS and shafts. You're looking at designing and creating all new equipment in order to lay down the carbon in a spiral pattern. Obviously the cost would be passed on to the buyer, which would deter most from trying out the new wonderstick, and put the manufacturer out of business. Hand-laid carbon would bring the same cost issues, unfortunately.

[the iceman 132]

Me not understand. Head hurt from reading post.

[pantherfan 0]

You'd be suprised what machines can do, these days.

[DamnLocust 0]

not saying it can't be done, I'm saying it will take a whole new set of machinery.

[Duder84 0]

not saying it can't be done, I'm saying it will take a whole new set of machinery.

therefore jacking up the already ridiculous prices.....

[pantherfan 0]

I can imagine it now: "Mission-Twister" :D

For some reason I think Jason should push this, and send me free samples!

[hockeymom 2]

ktang... what an interesting idea. I think I almost get it...hahaa

What effect would the spiral have on taking a pass on the backhand?

[DamnLocust 0]

I can imagine it now: "Mission-Twister" :D

For some reason I think Jason should push this, and send me free samples!

I definitely agree that this is something that we would see from mission as opposed to most other companies. They're always coming up with ideas that challenge the norm. And I like it.

Another issue that I just htought of is the durability of the shaft. Since the carbon runs lengthwise, there is a seamless run of carbon from top to bottom, thus absorbing impacts such as slashes and whatnot. With wound carbon, there would be seams between the strands, which would seem to make the shaft more prone to breakage from an impact, as well as making it easier/quicker to wear out.

[ktang 34]

As DamnLocust says, the best way to get a proper shot is to shoot from the sweet spot. I was thinking that this construction would enlarge the sweet spot on the blade, so if a player were hurrying his shot s/he could still have a decent chance of getting off a good one instead of a wobbler. Kind of like oversized drivers.

As hockeymom points out, the backhand side might be weaker, but most of us are not as strong on the backhand anyways. Unless we are digging along the boards.

I would still have some fibres weaving in other directions, but the majority in the flex zone would be spiralled slightly (like a twizzler licorice stick). The shape of the stick in the flex zone would make it whip in the proper plane, but the strand orientation would oppose the torquing.

With only a slight spiraling there may be only a little less durability. I can see initial sticks unravelling, though. The spiral layer might have to be compressed between some normally-oriented layers.

[tsanga 0]

Graphite is strong in tension, but weaker in compression.

Actually graphite is strong in compression, but weaker in tension (think pencil lead). The fibers you're talking about are not graphite but the reinforcing material - fiber glass, Kevlar, Aramid, etc.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

additionally in the manifactuing process, the fibres dont run the same way in every layer. one layer may run diagonal, the next may run in the opposite diagonal, vertical, then horizontal.

i'm sure they've thought of various ways to increase the torsional stiffness, but there's only so much you can do

[Cavs019 710]

I hate torquing as well.....and I've always made a point to keep any potentially genius ideas off the internet, or at least away from public message boards. You never know who might steal your idea/a derivation of your idea. :D

[Chadd 916]

Do you really think the manufacturers haven't tried laying the material in different directions? R&D is more than just new paint jobs.

[The Stranger 0]

What if the carbon mat were applied so that most of the fibres run with a slight twist?

shaft fibers are oriented at 45-degrees already (as in xxxxx not ====), which is essentially what you are describing.

[Cavs019 710]

Wasn't that the big ploy with the "metal matrix" Z Bubble?

[Chadd 916]

not really

[jasper 0]

don't want to sound stupid but can some one tell me what torquing is exactly

[The Stranger 0]

Graphite is strong in tension, but weaker in compression.

Actually graphite is strong in compression, but weaker in tension (think pencil lead). The fibers you're talking about are not graphite but the reinforcing material - fiber glass, Kevlar, Aramid, etc.

Pencil lead and carbon fiber are different forms of carbon. The tensile strength of carbon fiber is greater than glass and kevlar.

[Cavs019 710]

not really

I remember the weave on the first gen bubble grip being diagonal vs. vertical on the old green bubble, regardless both still torqued like a mother.

[ktang 34]

More clarification (Mack is right about the confusion):

The fibre orientation for composite shafts that I have seen up close (with the paint flaked off) seems to be symmetric along the shaft.

The gist of my idea is that there is a lot more torque in forehand than backhand shots, so the fibre orientation should not be longitudinally symmetric, and should be different for RH and LH shots.

[ktang 34]

don't want to sound stupid but can some one tell me what torquing is exactly

Torque is a rotational force.

As it applies to shooting: if you contact the puck too far from the blade heel, the blade opens up and your shot is weaker and off-target. The shaft twists because of the torque.

I read that some of the old Innovative True1 sticks torqued much more than other sticks.