Hostage Situation

[Chadd 916]

Banning guns in the US would cause a numer of problems.

1. Loss of a major industry

Not only the production and sale of guns and ammunition but also all of the hunting clothing and accessories would be eliminated. That's hundreds of millions, if not a billion dollar+ industry in the US.

2. Speaking of hunting, overpopulation of some animal types would become a problem and would cost state and local governments money to address.

3. State governments use fees from hunting licenses not only to manage hunters but also for environmental and conservation purposes.

4. Multiple studies have shown that burglary and robbery are more common in areas with lower gun ownership rates. Search google, they're out there.

5. There are already thousands of gun laws across the US, how about actually enforcing the ones already on the books first or actually keeping guilty people in prison for full sentances.

6. We can't stop drugs or immigrants from coming into the country, what makes you think we could stop guns?

[hockey3 0]

6. We can't stop drugs or immigrants from coming into the country, what makes you think we could stop guns?

All banning guns would do is get the guns out of honest peoples hands who would use them responsibly, and would leave them in the hands of people who would use them for bad.

[mack 44]

Oddly enough it seems to work for Australia but why is that again?

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

I've heard to the news that the guy abused sexually 2 of the 6 girls in hostage and that one 16 years old girl has died from his injury.

What an damn idiot...

[Meathead 0]

Oddly enough it seems to work for Australia but why is that again?

I don't know, maybe because no one lives there?

[hockey3 0]

I don't know, maybe because no one lives there?

Theres over 20 million people living in Australlia

[mack 44]

Looks like he needs another name change.

[--notorious 0]

Right now this make me 1000x happier that i live in canada.But lately gun violence is uprising i think its up 10% or something.Before you would rarely see a shooting on the news ..now theres one almost every other day.But in the states you guys have alot less rules then we have and our law is way tighter.

[Meathead 0]

I don't know, maybe because no one lives there?

Theres over 20 million people living in Australlia

That's not really that much considering how big Austraillia is.

[mack 44]

With that kind of rationale you must have stopped going to school after grade 7.

[foppa21 0]

Seventh grade? That might even be too generous.

[mack 44]

I think they automatically waive you out of grade 6 after your third try though.

[Monty22 833]

Oddly enough it seems to work for Australia but why is that again?

Crime rate in Australia increases since gun ban

Yes, and it worked out great for the Jews in Germany circa WW2.

American gun ownership stems from a healthy fear of an opressive government. It's also, just as importantly, about the ability to protect one's self and family. The police are under no legal obligation to protect you. What are you going to do when someone breaks into your house at 3 am? Call the police? Good luck with that. When it comes down to it, everyone is responisble for their own personal saftey. It's completely unrealistic to think a ban in the US would make anyone safe besides criminals. It would have the opposite affect all together. Criminals would still be armed and the law abiding would not. Look at Washington D.C.- they have passed every gun control law known to man-and still have one of the highest murder rates in the U.S..

[mack 44]

Gee, I wonder why crime would always be high in dc...

[The Stranger 0]

Oddly enough it seems to work for Australia but why is that again?

Crime rate in Australia increases since gun ban

...or did it?

I realize I am super late, but that web site makes me feel icky.

[Aussie Joe 0]

Gun controls began here after the 1996 Port Arthur Massacre in which 35 people were killed and 22 were injured by a lone, psychotic gun man named Martin Bryant. The event caused a major uproar in the Australian populance as to why the public needed access to semi automatic weapaons. They were shortly banned and an amnesty was created for the weapons to be handed back in after a 1-2 year period of the law being created.

It has worked, with a significant drop in the amount of firearm related deathsand crimes in Australia. In saying this but, I doubt it would have the same level of effectiveness in the US. A drop in crime and deaths would be noticed but not to the same degree as here. The cultures are very different and to be honest I had never seen a gun until I entered a gun shop about a year ago in the flesh. I'd seen the odd revolver holstered by a constable but really thats about it. How many of you US based MSH'ers could say the same?

Crime rate drops in Tasmania, the state where Port Arthur took place.

Example of the Firearms Act created after the Port Arthur massacre. This is the act or law from my home state of Victoria.

To quote a Missouri writer, in regards to the crime rate in Australia is really trying to strech things a little too far beyond beleif. No more then you would beleive me trying to tell you all about how good a certain young player in Quebec is. Im a long way away from the source.

Also, to suggest that the Jew's of Europe would have been able to hold back the onslaught of the Nazi's final solution by gun ownership is very narrow minded. The Final Solution was a systematic attempt at genocide instigated by a very qualified and effcient military base. Their success for its part, wasn't simply a fluke but based on planning and force implemented at the correct times.

Btw guys, Austraillia is spelt Australia. ;)

[Monty22 833]

Also, to suggest that the Jew's of Europe would have been able to hold back the onslaught of the Nazi's final solution by gun ownership is very narrow minded. The Final Solution was a systematic attempt at genocide instigated by a very qualified and effcient military base. Their success for its part, wasn't simply a fluke but based on planning and force implemented at the correct times.

So the roughly 13 million Jews, Gypsies,Homosexuals,Union leaders, Catholics etc were better off just accepting their fate?

The framers of the Constitution here in the States realized that you can't trust an all powerful government. Historiclly, there are numerous illustrations of their fears realized in outher countries- the Soviet Union circa 1929- 20 million dissadents killed from 1929-1953, China Has also racked up close to that amount, if not more since 1935. Cambodia, which has had strict gun control since 1956 slaughtered over a million people in the mid 1970's for being "educated".

All I'm saying is massive gun control dosen't lead to this Utopian socitey where nothing bad ever happens.

[hockeysew 0]

Get a clue gun banning/non-firearms folks.

The cold hard reality: If you ban the guns then the only ones that will be armed are criminals. What have you accomplished then? To make a predator stronger.

Just what I want in my neighborhood

Proven fact- The one reason that Mainland America has never had to face occupation by a foreign entity is because of an armed populace.

Proven fact- In states that have reasonable Concealed Carry laws violent crimes against persons incidents have DECLINED.

Proven fact- 98% of weapons related crimes in the U.S. are commited with ILLEGALLY obtained weapons by individuals that have violent criminal records.

LEGAL OWNERS OF WEAPONS ARE VERY RARELY THE PROBLEM.

An armed society is a free society.

Unarmed people are subjects (Australia and UK-are you listening?)

We already have plenty of laws meant to keep firearms out of irresponsible hands.

Enforce those laws and you will see a drastic reduction in firearm related crimes.

This is where the change needs to occur. Take the ACLU out of the criminal system. Why is it that an individual accused of a crime seems to have more rights than the victim of the crime?

As far as banning "Assault Weapons"

This is a "feel good" campaign started by the same clowns that have brought you the Million Mom March, The Million Man March not mention other totally useless endeavors.

These are the bleeding hearts that try to outlaw spanking a child,Discourage keeping score at little league games cause they dont want anybody to feel like a "Loser" but when something such as Columbine occurs it is the fault of the guns.

Wake the F&^K up would you.

Maybe if Mr Harris and Mr Klebold had had a boot up their ass at an early age they may not have commited the atrocity they did because they would have learned a bit of respect.

Do you see a connection maybe?

I like the analogy "If guns kill people then spoons made Rosie ODonnel Fat"

Lets re-visit the Clinton era ban which sunsetted in 2004. Its purpose was to control crime and hedge "Gang" violence. After the sunset of the ban before Judicial hearings numerous Law Enforcment entities including the FBI testified that the ban had NO effect whatsoever on crime.

This is the reason why it was not re-instated at that time.

The term "Assault" weapon is a total farce to start with. By definition an "Assault" weapon is capable of selective(full-automatic or semi-automatic) fire.

So in fact most any semi-automatic weapon is an "Assault" weapon by the definitions of the Clinton ban and even moreso under HR1022.

The politicians are for what ever reason terribly scared of any weapon that resembles a military weapon by looks or operation.

Gee whiz you in the Ivory Tower, are you intimidated?

The weapons in question are semi-automatic only and if you are stupid enough to convert to selective fire then you deserve to not have the weapon anyway.

Selective Fire weapons have been regulated since 1934 anyway (Class 3 weapons).

You can apply for your Class 3 for $200.00 and then purchase a Selective Fire weapon for anywhere from $3000.00 to $25000.00 plus pay a $200.00 tax stamp per weapon plus you consent to the ATF to drop by at any time and take a look.

Since 1934 only 1 LEGALLY owned Class 3 weapon was used to commit a crime and that was by a Law Enforcement Officer!

LEGALLY OWNED "Assault" weapons have been used in less than 2% of ALL crimes which a weapon is used.

LEGALLY OWNED WEAPONS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM FOLKS!!!

Crimes are committed by CRIMINALS whose weapons are ILLEGALLY obtained. Usually by stealing them from LEGAL owners!

All of this with the illusion of "Protecting" the public.

Lets look at a little background: In ANY country that has had firearms outlawed the violent crimes against persons has DRAMATICALLY jumped.-(You Aussies and Brits feel free to jump in).

Pre World War II Germany: One of Hitlers first acts as Fuerher was to "register" and ban weapons owned by the public. Next was seizure of weapons from anyone other than "Party" endorsed (Nazi) supporters. We all know what happened next......

Are we scared yet? You should be!!

A well known fact: The ONE thing that has prevented mainland America from ever being subject to invasion by foreign enemies in history is the mere fact of a very well armed population.

I dont recall if it was Hirohito or Yamamoto that when questioned as to invading America the reply was: "It would be too costly, for behind every blade of grass would be a rifle"

Lets keep it that way, especially given the political climate we are in.

Sounds like "Homeland Security" at it's best.

It really boils down to a question of rights and our Constitution.

Regardless of your stance on guns, they are attempting to to INFRINGE upon our rights as citizens of this country. If we let them "Adjust" the 2cnd Amendment, then what is next?

I carry a weapon (CCW) daily. Does that make me a bad person?

I look at my weapon as I do a seat belt:

You pray to God that you never have to actually employ it's use. But the one time that you do you will be thankfull you did.

Food for thought:

Ten things non-gun people should know about CHP/CCW holders:

1. We don't carry firearms so that we can ignore other basics of personal safety. Every permit holder that I know realizes that almost all dangerous situations can be avoided by vigilance, alertness and by simply making wise choices about where one goes and what one does.

We don't walk down dark alleys. We lock our cars. We don't get intoxicated in public or hang out around people who do. We park our cars in well lighted spots and don't hang out in bad parts of town where we have no business. A gun is our last resort, not our first.

2. We don't think we are cops, spies, or superheros. We aren't hoping that somebody tries to rob the convenience store while we are there so we can shoot a criminal. We don't take it upon ourselves to get involved in situations that are better handled by a 911 call or by simply standing by and being a good witness.

We don't believe our guns give us any authority over our fellow citizens. We also aren't here to be your unpaid volunteer bodyguard. We'll be glad to tell you where we trained and point you to some good gun shops if you feel you want to take this kind of responsibility for your personal safety.

Except for extraordinary circumstances your business is your business, don't expect us to help you out of situations you could have avoided.

3. We are LESS likely, not more likely, to be involved in fights or "rage" incidents than the general public. We recognize, better than many unarmed citizens, that we are responsible for our actions. We take the responsibility of carrying a firearm very seriously. We know that loss of temper, getting into fights or angrily confronting

someone after a traffic incident could easily escalate into a dangerous situation. We are more likely to go out of our way to avoid these situations. We don't pull our guns to settle arguments or to attempt to threaten people into doing what we want.

4. We are responsible gun owners. We secure our firearms so that children and other unauthorized people cannot access them. Most of us have invested in safes, cases and lock boxes as well as other security measures to keep our firearms secure. Many of us belong to various organizations that promote firearms safety and ownership.

5. Guns are not unsafe or unpredictable. Modern firearms are well-made precision instruments. Pieces do not simply break off causing them to fire. A hot day will not set them off. Most modern firearms will not discharge even if dropped. There is no reason to be afraid of a gun simply laying on a table or in a holster. It is not going to

discharge on its own.

6. We do not believe in the concept of "accidental discharges". There are no accidental discharges only negligent discharges or intentional discharges. We take responsibility for our actions and have learned

how to safely handle firearms. Any case you have ever heard of about a gun "going off" was the result of negligence on somebody's part. Our recognition of our responsibility and familiarity with firearms makes us among the safest firearms owners in America.

7. Permit holders do their best to keep our concealed weapons exactly that: concealed. However, there are times with an observant fellow citizen may spot our firearm or the print of our firearm under our clothes. We are very cognizant that concerns about terrorism and crime are in the forefront of the minds of most citizens. We also

realize that our society does much to condition our fellow citizens to have sometimes irrational fears about firearms. We would encourage citizens who do happen to spot someone carrying a firearm to use good

judgment and clear thinking if they feel to need to take action. Please recognize that it's very uncommon for a criminal to use a holster. However, if you feel the need to report having spotted a firearm we would ask that you please be specific and detailed in your call to the police or in your report to a store manager or private

security. Please don't generalize or sensationalize what you observed. Comments like "there's a guy running around in the store with a gun" or even simply "I saw a man with a gun in the store" could possibly cause a misunderstanding as to the true nature of the

incident.

8. The fact that we carry a firearm to any given place does not mean that we believe that place to be inherently unsafe. If we believe a place to be unsafe, most of us would avoid that place all together if possible. However, we recognize that trouble could occur at any place

and at any time. Criminals do not observe "gun free zones". If trouble does come, we do not want the only armed persons to be perpetrators. Therefore, we don't usually make a determination about whether or not to carry at any given time based on "how safe" we

think a location is.

9. Concealed weapon permit holders are an asset to the public in times of trouble. The fact that most permit holders have the good judgment to stay out of situations better handled by a 911 call or by simply being a careful and vigilant witness does not mean that we would fail to act in situations where the use of deadly force is

appropriate to save lives. Review of high profile public shooting incidents shows that when killers are confronted by armed resistance they tend to either break off the attack and flee or choose to end their own life. Lives are saved when resistance engages a violent criminal. Lives are lost when the criminal can do as he pleases.

10. The fact that criminals know that some of the population may be armed at any given time helps to deter violence against all citizens. Permit holders don't believe that every person should necessarily be

armed. We recognize that some people may not be temperamentally suited to carry a firearm or simply may wish not to for personal reasons. However we do encourage you to respect our right to arm ourselves. Even if you choose not to carry a firearm yourself please

oppose measures to limit the ability of law abiding citizens to be armed. As mentioned before: criminals do not observe "gun free zones". Help by not supporting laws that require citizens to be

unarmed victims.

I will trust in 911 to get there in time to remove the body from my home in a "Sh!T Hit The Fan" situation.

I have THE RIGHT to protect myself and family with deadly force if warranted.

I would like to keep that right.

Sorry if it is a little long winded, but I guarantee the first time you are in a life threatining situation you will have a different outlook on things.

[#44wannabe 4]

Having guns is a stupid idea. To say it is your constitutional is also the lamest rationale behind owning one.

Oh, i know, just because the constitution says i can i am going to go and buy myself where my son/daughter/neighbour could potentially get a hold of it and go on a killing spree because im so stupid that i honestly believe if someone broke into my house they wouldn't shoot me first!

[hockeysew 0]

Having guns is a stupid idea. To say it is your constitutional is also the lamest rationale behind owning one.

Oh, i know, just because the constitution says i can i am going to go and buy myself where my son/daughter/neighbour could potentially get a hold of it and go on a killing spree because im so stupid that i honestly believe if someone broke into my house they wouldn't shoot me first!

No, YOU owning guns is a stupid idea.

If you are irresponsible enough to leave it laying around to where your son/daughter/neighbor can readily access it you have no comprehension of the consequences of such action and therefor have no right to own said weapon.

With this kind of ignorant rationale why don't you lock up your skates, stick and baseball bat too.

Remind me to get you a set of "Safety Scissors" next time I go to Wal-Mart.

You might hurt yourself or go on a spree otherwise.......

I have owned firearms basically all of my life. Anything from a BB gun to licensed Class III (selective fire) weapons.

Never once has one of them been involved in a tragic "Accident" or unintentional shooting. Never once has one been stolen from me. My children have been raised with them in the house and by God they havent shot their friend in the face or anywhere else for that matter because they were curious.

My family has been taught from day one of the consiquences of pulling a trigger.

My home has been broken into twice in my adult life. Twice has just the sound of a 12 gauge chambering a round caused the intruders to "re-assess" their intentions and leave.

Is your phone call to the local PD going to do that or are you the type to just hide in the closet while your home is ripped apart and your girlfriend is gang raped?

Wake up- It's an ugly world we live in.

It is all about responsibility "Wannabe"

If you CHOOSE to own/handle a weapon:

You have the RESPONSIBILITY to handle/store a weapon with the due diligence it demands.

Yes I have the means to take a life and will do so unerringly if I have no other alternative.

But I also have the means to protect life.

I have the RESPONSIBILITY to protect life.

I have the MORAL obligation to protect life.

But it will be mine and my family's life that comes first.

You will be an afterthought.

If you CHOOSE not to own a weapon that is certainly your choice. I sincerely hope you never have to use one. It is a tremendous burden to do so. Trust me on that, it stays with you forever....

But dont you dare try to compromise my CHOICE.

PEACE....Through Superior Firepower