mack 44 Report post Posted October 4, 2006 Was that jump to conclusions a triple-jump or standing long jump? DAMN. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chippa13 1844 Report post Posted October 4, 2006 Was that jump to conclusions a triple-jump or standing long jump? DAMN. No, it makes perfect sense to assume that since I believe the odd random punch is a part of men's leagues that I am going to be the next guy to be on top of some guy in a rink lobby beating him to death. Perfectly reasonable logic there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mack 44 Report post Posted October 4, 2006 Just don't mention rape while you're at it, mean man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chikinpotpie 137 Report post Posted October 4, 2006 Chikin, I was asking chippa, not you about the missing teeth part. However, if slashing to you is within the "common boundaries" of the game and essentially pick-up hockey for you, since thats your flavor, I would appreciate a "heads-up" should we ever skate together. The slash coming back at you from the other guy may not be so friendly. That is why I said that I don't play in the league because that is the type of play that takes place. In pick up and such, there is no need for that so it doesn't happen. I was just comparing slashing to punching a guy in the face because I don't know if a Judge in Canada would convict a guy of slashing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkStar50 679 Report post Posted October 4, 2006 Was that jump to conclusions a triple-jump or standing long jump? DAMN. No, it makes perfect sense to assume that since I believe the odd random punch is a part of men's leagues that I am going to be the next guy to be on top of some guy in a rink lobby beating him to death. Perfectly reasonable logic there. Made you think? Scary........ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hockeymom 2 Report post Posted October 4, 2006 That is why I said that I don't play in the league because that is the type of play that takes place. In pick up and such, there is no need for that so it doesn't happen. I was just comparing slashing to punching a guy in the face because I don't know if a Judge in Canada would convict a guy of slashing. I agree with you Chikin... I believe this judge was making a distinction between slashing and hooking and something like a punch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chippa13 1844 Report post Posted October 4, 2006 Was that jump to conclusions a triple-jump or standing long jump? DAMN. No, it makes perfect sense to assume that since I believe the odd random punch is a part of men's leagues that I am going to be the next guy to be on top of some guy in a rink lobby beating him to death. Perfectly reasonable logic there. Made you think? Scary........ Not sure when exactly you decided to take this so personally but you may want to up your meds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
althoma1 575 Report post Posted October 4, 2006 I'm not going to make excuses for the guy, but the article said the guy who threw the punch and was fined 20 Grand was a good skater and one of the leading scorers in the league. I would've liked to hear his side of the story as far as why he punched the guy. Obviously he shouldn't have done it for an incidental collission and it's against the rules no matter what the excuse, but playing in a beer league myself I know that sometimes the better players get constantly mugged all game and if they're playing a weaker team the refs let a bit of the clutching and grabbing go to keep things even. This leads to frustration...if he had to deal with that all game I can see why he might have finally cracked and clocked the guy. Now, of course it's very unfair of me to blame the refs for letting clutching and grabbing go as I don't know if that's what happened, but that's one scenario I can see where even a normally level headed player will sometimes snap and do something stupid. With that said this guy could've just been a hot head in general. In the summer season I rubbed a player out on the boards and he took a full swing at my head as I was skating away which lead to me turning around and going after him, but the refs did a good job and jumped in before anything significant happened. I was pissed that he tried to sucker punch me as I felt his fist graze the back of my head, but I didn't go mental because it was the last regular season game and I didn't want to be suspended for the playoffs...that team was eliminated in the first round, while our team made it to the finals so we haven't played them yet again (we will in the winter season sometime soon though). I didn't even hit him hard - he had the puck and tried to get around me to the outside - I rubbed him out on the boards lightly, just hard enough so he lost control of the puck and one of my team mates could get the puck and then I immediately let him go and turned around with the intent of skating up the ice to look for a pass or other offensive opportunity and he tried to punch me in the back of the head. Sure, it's a non-contact league and if I ran the guy or something I could understand why he'd be upset, but for a gentle rub out a classless act like trying to sucker punch a guy from behind was certainly uncalled for..it was also toward the end of the game with the score like 5-2 for our team so the fact that they were losing could've contributed to the reaction, but I don't think it's a good excuse (sure I could've let the guy go, but I try to play hard until the end). We weren't hooking or grabbing him in the game before that and I hadn't done anything else to instigate the punch. In this case if a guy was just a hot head like the one I described above I think he deserved the fine...if it was a guy who usually didn't take penalties, but got frustrated due to a lack of deserved calls I can kind of sympathize with the guy. I'm not saying it's right, but if it's the second case I don't know about the hefty fine. I think the overall character of the player and the context of the game should be taken into consideration and that wasn't completely clear in the article. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hockeymom 2 Report post Posted October 4, 2006 You're right we don't have the guy's side of the story - but my guess is the additional $3,000 fine for aggravated damages would get at a piece of the guy's attitude. Reading between this lines, I think the judge thought the guy was a jerk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
althoma1 575 Report post Posted October 4, 2006 hockeymom Posted on Oct 4 2006, 05:38 PM You're right we don't have the guy's side of the story - but my guess is the additional $3,000 fine for aggravated damages would get at a piece of the guy's attitude. Reading between this lines, I think the judge thought the guy was a jerk. Yes, good point. It does say the additional fine was for, his mean-spirited refusal to apologize or admit having done wrong.. If the guy had merely snapped in the game due to constantly being mugged the whole game and took it out a guy for incidental contact he should've apologized to the victim who lost his teeth. Even if the guy had been hooking and holding him the whole game an apology for knocking the guys teeth out in a Mens league game was definitely appropriate. Based on that line I'm inclined to agree with your logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason Harris 31 Report post Posted October 5, 2006 The problem I have with the responses from a few of you is the suggestion that I should expect there to be a hook, trip, slash, punch, etc on the rink.Should I expect that somewhat might slash me? Only because I know there are some assholes on the ice. Actually. my true expectation is that someone should treat me with the same respect that I give him, meaning I might wrestle with him in front of the net, or race him to get to the puck first at the boards, or even push him slightly to get some separation, but I'll keep my hands and stick to myself.Should I expect to go back to the bench and notice my thumb is starting to hurt, then realize some idiot slashed me because I happened to have a breakaway in a D league rec game at 10:30 at night, when no one's in the stands, not even the scouts? There's ten other things he could have tried that wouldn't have involved hurting me, including giving me kudos for getting lucky and anticipating a pass in a position that allowed me to get ahead of everyone.By the way, the guy who runs our league has told me that he receives a couple of calls a year from players who had their hand/wrist/arm broken by someone who slashed them.In rec league?!?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mack 44 Report post Posted October 5, 2006 I wouldn't say to expect those kinds of acts, but don't be surprised by them if/when they happen. Sometimes a stick goes high on accident and sometimes it's just players getting chippy. Obviously something like a punch or slash is more deliberate but don't think it's something shocking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason Harris 31 Report post Posted October 5, 2006 I agree, Mack, I'm not surprised when they happen. But I think it's fair to expect a level of civility in games that are absolutely meaningless, although it's naive to think that will occur. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hockeymom 2 Report post Posted October 5, 2006 I agree with you, and my previous comments certainly weren't meant to condone slashing in rec hockey.... but rather to separate out what would be legally actionable. Although, Canadian courts seem to be drawing an ever more distinct line between skilled play and thuggery. They have previously found spearing to be assault... slashing might well be next. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
--notorious 0 Report post Posted October 5, 2006 Ye i understand the 8,000 for the teeth and all but, 10,000 for pain and suffering???And 3,000 to learn a lesson.I have a feeling we are going to see alot more of these cases.Well I guess maybe he had to miss some work or something maybe thats why its so high Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hunterphfr 12 Report post Posted October 5, 2006 Used to play in a beer league in Calgary mid 90s that had a lot of fights and thuggery. The league implemented a $125 fine per person per fight to be paid before the team played it's next game. In one off season the atmosphere changed from junior C in the old days to my seeing one fight the following year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hunterphfr 12 Report post Posted October 5, 2006 I would also like to know what type of facial protection is required in that league and what the recipient was wearing. A combination of cage, full shield, half shield, mouth guard or no protection at all could have drastically changed the outcome in this situation. I know the league in Florida I'm in now pretty much looks the other way when it comes to this. The sport is hockey, we wear equipment for a reason and slashing and roughing are penalties for a reason.But I could do a lot more damage with a vicious two hand than a single punch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkStar50 679 Report post Posted October 5, 2006 I agree with Jason. We are all playing some form of rec hockey- beer league, pick-up, whatever. None of us are getting PAID to play. We are not professionals. I have no problem if I was a pro getting slashed or duking it out. However, in our level of play, my Swiss friend, JP, with his thick French accent calls this "boo-$hit hockey." I understand competition in sports but just what are we playing for that a slash or punch in the teeth is "part of the game" at the rec league level? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mack 44 Report post Posted October 5, 2006 Who knows what the guy said or did to provoke the punch. Regardless of the activity, time or place there are some things that can be said that reach someone's boiling point and make them react hastily. I wouldn't expect such a pacifist approach from you though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stick9 896 Report post Posted October 5, 2006 "When a player signs the game sheet agreeing to the terms of the waiver, he is assuming the risks inherent in playing the game -- he is not volunteering to be the recipient of a battery," Judge Low said.Why isn't the guy in jail? Seems to me if he was guilty of battery there would be some sort of legal action. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkStar50 679 Report post Posted October 5, 2006 Mack,Sooner or later in life you reach a point where you realize that fighting someone in a rec league hockey game is just a really stupid thing to do. It proves nothing, solves nothing, and is just dumb. I'm not exactly a pacifist. I had my share of dust-ups and did a few stupid things a long time ago on the ice. But, like I said, now I see it as stupid in the context of a rec league hockey game. I know I am the "old man" here and the young bucks here still have a lot of juice flowing through their veins. I completely understand those dynamics. I'm at the point in my game where as a defenceman when you get around me, good for you, go take a shot on net and score! Bettman will not be showing up when the Zamboni doors open up to hand me the Cup at center ice. My gang is more interested in the beer frame after the game in the locker room.This all just my opinion. If you guys want to go beat each other up in a beer league game, go for it. Been there, done that. Just leave me out of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chippa13 1844 Report post Posted October 5, 2006 Mack,Sooner or later in life you reach a point where you realize that fighting someone in a rec league hockey game is just a really stupid thing to do. It proves nothing, solves nothing, and is just dumb. I'm not exactly a pacifist. I had my share of dust-ups and did a few stupid things a long time ago on the ice. But, like I said, now I see it as stupid in the context of a rec league hockey game. I know I am the "old man" here and the young bucks here still have a lot of juice flowing through their veins. I completely understand those dynamics. I'm at the point in my game where as a defenceman when you get around me, good for you, go take a shot on net and score! Bettman will not be showing up when the Zamboni doors open up to hand me the Cup at center ice. My gang is more interested in the beer frame after the game in the locker room.This all just my opinion. If you guys want to go beat each other up in a beer league game, go for it. Been there, done that. Just leave me out of it. Most of us in our 30's realize we have to work in the morning and fighting in men's leagues is silly. However, that is not the debate at hand. The argument is whether it can be reasonable assumed that you could take a shot to the mug at some point in your adult hockey lifetime and the answer is yes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mack 44 Report post Posted October 5, 2006 I agree with some of what you're saying. I wouldn't toss with anyone over something game-related like a hook, poke, even a slash, etc. but if it went personal and beyond then that's a different story to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkStar50 679 Report post Posted October 5, 2006 Just curious, you let the trash talk get to you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hockeymom 2 Report post Posted October 5, 2006 Chippa - Actually, I think that's your argument... punching someone is not part of the game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
