power play lines

[undsioux 0]

what are your views on power play lines in youth hockey?

good or bad? and why

[kosydar 0]

House hockey= bad.

Anything above house league where a larger emphasis is placed on winning= necessary.

[thekid 0]

As you get into higher level / ages its ok.

[asdfa 0]

it is useless in house league but the power play is so different from regular play that to not establish a system would be to shortchange any competitive team.

[hockechamp14 0]

Not needed until players get paid for thier services.

[Hockeyman9621 0]

Not needed until players get paid for thier services.

You must play house league..... other wise you wouldn't have said that.

[TBLfan 25]

I coach a beginner adult hockey team and I basically make the pp line up as I go along. But hell, I make the lines based on who actually shows up that week either in the locker room or during warm ups.

[Chadd 916]

Depends on the situation and the talent on your team.

[--notorious 0]

If its a houseleague team just practice powerplay with all three lines. So they at least know what to do and everyone gets their even ice time.

[undsioux 0]

our coach thinks that it will mess up the rest of the lines, but wouldnt it be his job to get them back together? And it wouldn't be that big of a deal to have them messed up for 1 shift. We run 3 "equal" so none of them are very threatening and we just go through the order for power plays, but we never score any power play goals so i believe it is required to have a power play line if you want to win hockey games, but he doesnt seem to see it that way.

[Chadd 916]

our coach thinks that it will mess up the rest of the lines, but wouldnt it be his job to get them back together? We run 3 "equal" so none of them are very threatening and we just go through the order for power plays, but we never score any power play goals so i believe it is required to have a power play line if you want to win hockey games, but he doesnt seem to see it that way.

Since it his job to put the lines back together, doesn't he get to make the call? I'm not a fan of loading up one unit on a regular basis, but I have done it in key situations. The extra time and space players get on the PP can make some of the less talented players feel more comfortable as well. Unless they're at a high level, it's about teaching the game.

I've coached (assistant) teams that had so little talent that loading up the top kids on the PP would leave a very weak group left to follow it. We tried it a couple times at the insistence of another coach and some parents (on the club board) and we were scored on every time as I predicted.

[hockechamp14 0]

Not needed until players get paid for thier services.

You must play house league..... other wise you wouldn't have said that.

I guess by need I really meant, it shouldn't matter. Development of all players in all situations should be more important than the coach's record. The soviets proved that.

I play junior.

[LkptTiger 1]

The Soviets were exceptionally talented and deep. Their fourth lines were nearly as strong and dangerous as their first.

The coach's record is the team's record. Yeah - I'd argue that it's pretty important.

In order to consistently win games played at a decent level (competent HS hockey, AAA, Prep, Junior...), your special teams "units" have to do their jobs and do it well. There is most certainly a different mentality to the power play or penalty kill than there is the 5-5 game.

When it comes to special teams, there is no "development." You can teach strategy and concept all you want - but when it comes down to it, the fact of the matter is that there are guys on every team who are just more creative, there are guys who have better vision, and there are guys who bury their chances better than the others. Those aren't things that players are "taught" - they are God-given gifts. If you're rolling four lines at even strength, these guys might not play together; but, when you're trying to take advantage of a mis-match, you're going to want to take the guys who can best exploit the man-advantage and put them on the ice together.

[hockechamp14 0]

The Soviets were exceptionally talented and deep. Their fourth lines were nearly as strong and dangerous as their first.

The coach's record is the team's record. Yeah - I'd argue that it's pretty important.

In order to consistently win games played at a decent level (competent HS hockey, AAA, Prep, Junior...)

The only thing you're disagreeing with me is when power play lines need to be implemented. I agree they're effective and stuff. But in minor hockey, if a kid never gets out on the powerplay, he effectively has next to no chance in his future of being able to be on one.

Minor hockey coaches would get fired in the USSR if they put winning over player development. In minor hockey your record really shouldn't matter. There's a vague line of what I to be considered "compensated" for playing.

[All Torhs Team 0]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but dont most teams run it in practice? And then after giving everyone their fair chance, the coach plays the the players in the game who executed his play the best in practice.

[LkptTiger 1]

Define "minor hockey." I am going to assume that you mean all levels of play through Midgets - if that's the case, then it's just wrong.

If you're playing Midget AAA hockey, there is a reason you're on the ice everyday beginning in late July. There is a reason you're at dry-land practices nearly all summer and in the weight room and shooting hundreds of pucks a day behind your house on your own time.

Yes, you are working to make yourself a better player...and, yes, you are working with the underlying motive being that you catch the eyes of some Junior scouts once the season starts - but, ultimately, you're working your ass off so that you can help your team win hockey games. It's as simple as that. A losing coach can get run out of a minor organization just as easily as he can be fired from a Junior, College or NHL job - probably easier.

There are some guys who were born with the gifts to land themselves on the PP unit - and there are obviously others who weren't. Like it or not, the realization of which players belong in which demographic is usually done long before players reach Midget age. "Equal ice-time for everyone" is something for house leagues.

[UMWhockey 0]

It will all depend on how your team is run. If your coach is more of a developmental coach, kinda like I am, then have your normal three lines and teach all of them your power play. If you are a top tier team and their is some division between your top players and your third liners, then create a power play line. I had power play and penalty kill lines for a while.... I would only use them when we needed a big kill or needed to convert on a PP. Otherwise I would run normal lines since in most Midget games, you could spend the majority of the game on the PP or PK. Just have to make sure that whatever you do, it is in line with what the team goals were for the season.

[LkptTiger 1]

I would only use them when we needed a big kill or needed to convert on a PP.

Unless you're up by 5-6 goals, every power-play is big; every goal you don't score is one they do.

[UMWhockey 0]

maybe if as a coach your job depends on winning or loosing, but winning a non league game or even a meaningless league game wouldn't be worth taking away ice time from kids that I need to develop

[Chadd 916]

maybe if as a coach your job depends on winning or loosing, but winning a non league game or even a meaningless league game wouldn't be worth taking away ice time from kids that I need to develop

It's amazing how important developing your "worst" players can be. As far as I'm concerned the best coaches are the ones that can turn their lesser players into regular contributors, not the ones who rely on their top line for everything.

[Hockeyman9621 0]

maybe if as a coach your job depends on winning or loosing, but winning a non league game or even a meaningless league game wouldn't be worth taking away ice time from kids that I need to develop

It's amazing how important developing your "worst" players can be. As far as I'm concerned the best coaches are the ones that can turn their lesser players into regular contributors, not the ones who rely on their top line for everything.

The problem with my team is the third line players are stoners and complain about ice time non-stop. UMWhockey- what if your league wins mean better playoff positioning?

[LkptTiger 1]

If we're talking about Squirts or Pee Wees, then sure, development of a player into a "skill" role is going to be feasible. However, once guys get up to Midgets or Junior hockey, most have already accepted and grown into what ever role they have the abilities to fill.

Chadd - Nobody says fourth-liners can't contribute on the scoreboard, but I think everyone agrees that their going to do so differently than a guy on the first line.

The higher the level of play, the smaller the skill gap between the first and fourth liners is going to become. When I was seven years old, I led a Mite Summer League with 56 goals; the next closest person had 34, and the next closest behind him had 29. Last year, playing Midget AAA, the gaps in the scoring race were either tied or down to a goal or two the entire length of the list - with a few third and fourth liners sprinkled in a little higher than you might expect them to be.

By the time kids are ready to head off to Junior, just about everyone can skate, shoot, pass, handle the puck and play the physical game well. But there are some guys who skate a little faster - like they have fucking rockets on their skates. Other guys shoot pucks that can't be seen and only heard, hitting openings barely the size of the puck itself. There's a contingent of players that you might argue have eyes in the backs (and sides) of their heads. Still more guys out there can handle the puck for what seem like entire shifts - playing their own little game of "keep-away" against all five opponents. And, of course, there are those guys who just can not be moved, but can knock you off balance with a poke of their finger on your shoulder. Then there are the players on the short list of guys who can do everything equally (and remarkably) well.

These are skills that guys are born with and build-upon. You can't teach a guy to skate like Niedermayer (Scott, obviously), fire the puck like Sakic, dish like Crosby, dangle like Kovy or lower the boom like Blake.

[undsioux 0]

The problem with my team is the third line players are stoners and complain about ice time non-stop. UMWhockey- what if your league wins mean better playoff positioning?

we have the same problem, we have a few stoners who have no idea how to run systems and always complain about ice time, they need to be put in their place.

and our league wins and losses do mean better positioning for playoffs so it is important to capitalize on power play opportunities

[UMWhockey 0]

The problem with my team is the third line players are stoners and complain about ice time non-stop. UMWhockey- what if your league wins mean better playoff positioning?

that is why I said meaningless league games. Put yourselves in the shoes of say a third liner who tries hard, but assumes he is never going to get a chance to prove himself on the pp or pk. If I have a league game which isn't going to make a huge difference in the grand scheme of things, I would rather those third liners get some pp and pk time in order to show them that they can play if they are willing to work hard. You also never know... one of those third line players may be the best person to have in front of the net on a pp, or someone who is very good positional player on a PK because he thinks the game well. I coach midgets and like to show them and anyone can play PP or PK and even my best player will be taken off if he is not willing to work hard and play the systems. Showing a third liner that you have faith in them to be on a PP or PK might give them a little more jump in their step and help pick up their game 5 on 5 as well.