Sean Hill suspended for juicing

[Eazy_b97 1]

The way it was explained to me, and this is for the tests in general, is that Theo would've initially shown some steroid substance, then in the second test it shows what it is, which is why he wasn't suspended, because his substance wasn't banned.

[RadioGaGa 162]

The way it was explained to me, and this is for the tests in general, is that Theo would've initially shown some steroid substance, then in the second test it shows what it is, which is why he wasn't suspended, because his substance wasn't banned.

Pretty much, but he is not eligible for International play...the substance isn't on NHL lists. The WADA has a ton of regular over-the-counter stuff that you can't take. Cold medications, alergy stuff...there is lots of substances that can get you on Dick Pounds naughty list, not just 'roids and HGH.

I was at the Sabres-Habs game the night the NHL announcement was made. I was sitting in the pressbox with a friend from the Bulldogs, so I got a copy of the NHL Press Release from Bill Daly. I'll see if I still have it..I think it laid out what it all meant, and what actions had been taken by WADA.

[Monty22 833]

Here's a thought- this would work for any other sport as well- When a player tests positive for banned performance enhancing substances, his team forfeits every game he appeared in. True zero tolerance

[Eazy_b97 1]

eazy-

It's not rocket science. Who knows how long Hill was taking these substances? I venture to say at least a month or through March and April. And the Isles played quite a few teams fighting for a spot through March and April, including the Rangers (4 times), Leafs (1 time), Montreal (1 time). So to go back to my original thought, it is not like Hill's steriod abuse started and ended while only playing Toronto. Other teams fighting for a spot had to play those same Isles and Super-human Hill during that period as well. Hopefully I cleared that up so you now understand.

The bottom line is that Sundin sucked ass for much of the last part of the season and a marginal player like Hill is not exactly controlling games out there before or after taking these substances.

On adding to the thread- Self explanatory. The Leafs had plenty of opportunities to take that 8th seed, but have got blown out in some of their most important games to do so

You still don't get it. This isn't a Leafs thing. It's the fact Hill played while on roids and the NHL needed to take action. It's very possible the Isles wouldn't have made the final spot without him. Doesn't matter if it was Toronto or Montreal who would've had another oppurtunity to take advantage of it. Again, you miss the point of the discussion and use it to bash the Leafs. Hill was used as a shutdown D-man with Witt.

Since when did the rules change to "If you blow some chances, the other teams can use a player on steroids to get in to the playoffs?"

Here's a thought- this would work for any other sport as well- When a player tests positive for banned performance enhancing substances, his team forfeits every game he appeared in. True zero tolerance

That's the way it is handled in the Olympics.

[DarkStar50 679]

The player has the right to appeal. That is part of the CBA agreement. You may not agree with it or like it but its there in black and white for all 30 teams and their players.

[Eazy_b97 1]

The player has the right to appeal. That is part of the CBA agreement. You may not agree with it or like it but its there in black and white for all 30 teams and their players.

Which is what needs to change and thats the issue. Everything was done within the rules of the CBA, but the rules inplace are flawed. You aren't allowed an illegal player for anything else.

[DarkStar50 679]

How do you propose they change it? What if a second test is negative and the player has been suspended immediately based on the results of the first test? There will be flaws and loopholes in all drug testing procedures and consequences. This is the world of professional sports in the year 2007. Its not a perfect world so we are stuck with what we have. Does this make it fair or right? Probably not, but what about that player with the illegal stick for the first two periods of Game 6 of the Conference Finals who after scoring the go-ahead goal changes back to his legal stick for the third period? What punishment or consequence is there for him or his team once they win Game 6 and the series? Its not fair, its life.

[Eazy_b97 1]

A coach can point and say, check his stick, at any point during the game, getting immediate results. You can't do that with drug testing. That's the difference.

My proposal would be start testing earlier, so you aren't finishing the process in the first round of the playoffs, and have more tests.

[DarkStar50 679]

This time you missed my point. The coach did not check his stick when it was illegal. Yet, the goal still stands. Players cannot be tested over and over and over again. The NHLPA won't agree to it. There is a limit. Sometimes things will not always be as you think they should be or could be. Most of the time things will just be as they are. I'm old enough to know Utopia isn't happening any time soon. I don't think this is a secret. Are you a philosophy major?

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

Now...we don't even know what he was suspended for. It could very well be Sudafed.

[Chadd 916]

Now...we don't even know what he was suspended for. It could very well be Sudafed.

Sudafed isn't banned by the NHL.

[bheidepr 0]

Now...we don't even know what he was suspended for. It could very well be Sudafed.

Sudafed isn't banned by the NHL.

Is there a listing somewhere? Are there over the counter items on the list?

[Chadd 916]

Now...we don't even know what he was suspended for. It could very well be Sudafed.

Sudafed isn't banned by the NHL.

Is there a listing somewhere? Are there over the counter items on the list?

Best I could find, no specific drug mentioned.

http://www.nhl.com/nhlhq/cba/drug_testing072205.html

[bheidepr 0]

So it could be marijuana, or more likely it is some prescription only pain-killers (i.e. oxycodone, etc)

[Chadd 916]

So it could be marijuana, or more likely it is some prescription only pain-killers (i.e. oxycodone, etc)

The comments that I heard said "performance enhancing drugs".

[Eazy_b97 1]

This is not a Leafs thing. Then why do I hear a lot of Leafs fans whining about how Hill possibly prevented them from reaching the playoffs as well as possible talk about a grievance against the Isles from the Leafs? When I chimed in, it was a Leafs thing already, so don't pull that shit on me. The Isles playing different teams with a "Super human Hill" may have gave them more pts. So I don't know how one can say it is not a Leafs or Montreal thing...The two teams it may have potentially influenced the most. Well, the Rangers actually played them the most in the later part of the season, but they actually won some games when it counted so it doesn't matter for them

The teams on the outside looking in have noone to blame but themselves

Because they were the closest team to the playoffs. Had it been the Habs, Panthers or other team, then those teams would be suggested.

Nice little tidbit there on the Rangers winning again. Is that honestly how you boost your own ego? Again, you really can't keep up in the discussion. You've turned this into a Toronto vs. Rangers thread. For reasons I'm not really sure of as well.

This time you missed my point. The coach did not check his stick when it was illegal. Yet, the goal still stands. Players cannot be tested over and over and over again. The NHLPA won't agree to it. There is a limit. Sometimes things will not always be as you think they should be or could be. Most of the time things will just be as they are. I'm old enough to know Utopia isn't happening any time soon. I don't think this is a secret. Are you a philosophy major?

Does it matter what my major is? This is clearly a problem in the NHL. I didn't miss your point at all. You're point is essentially "tough shit". As far as I'm concerned, that isn't a legitimate answer. You can't just turn your back and say "oh well, shit happens". This is a million dollar mistake. I just pointed out the flawed logic in your Illegal curve comparison, since coaches and teams have the option to challenge it whenever. This is actually the exact opposite as the team has no option to test someone elses player, and the results are taking much longer.

[Chadd 916]

Without some idea of the timeframe, it's just useless speculation.

[Eazy_b97 1]

Without some idea of the timeframe, it's just useless speculation.

Definitely, but the way Daly was talking on TSN last night definitely made it seem like this impacted the race. Also the NY post is reporting it happened down the stretch.

[Chadd 916]

Without some idea of the timeframe, it's just useless speculation.

Definitely, but the way Daly was talking on TSN last night definitely made it seem like this impacted the race. Also the NY post is reporting it happened down the stretch.

I would guess it was 2 weeks or so. My wife runs the drug testing at her company.

[DarkStar50 679]

"a team has no option to test another teams player."? When was that ever considered in any professional league? An opposing team can say lets test A-Rod, we think he's on the juice? Are you thinking about this stuff before you write it? I know your soapbox is one of the highest in Hyde Park but please take a time out to clear your head.

If the league wants to speed up their drug testing and their appeals procedure then they should. However, until they do, yes, life is tough shit. And you better get used to it. Try as hard as anyone might, there is no level playing field. When are you going to accept that?

Then, you are a philosophy major?

[Eazy_b97 1]

How long does it generally take for the tests? I heard 10-15 days for one, but am not sure on that. Then there is the appeal process and going infront of a judge. Would taking 2 samples a day or so apart not remedy this problem?

[Chadd 916]

How long does it generally take for the tests? I heard 10-15 days for one, but am not sure on that. Then there is the appeal process and going infront of a judge. Would taking 2 samples a day or so apart not remedy this problem?

If they're using a local lab each test would take a couple days at most. If they are using one central lab it could easily be a month or more for the whole process to take place.

[Eazy_b97 1]

It's first and foremost an issue with the NHL. After that it's a playoff issue which involves teams close to the playoffs. Right now it's the Leafs and Habs, in any other year it could be a different team and the issue would be the same. Which is why I say it's not a team issue, and is instead an issue with the NHL.

And check your PM.

[mack 44]

It was Sean Hill. I don't think he affects anything.

[Chadd 916]

It was Sean Hill. I don't think he affects anything.

He and Witt did a great job of mugging guys down the stretch