Is it better for hockey if Anaheim wins?

[Eazy_b97 1]

Your post is somewhat contradictory. You harp on TB for having low ticket prices, then come back and say Ottawa needs to make it to the 2nd round to be profitable. That means they are likely selling their own tickets at a lower rate to ensure a full building. If they upped the price, they'd lose money. Then you say they only drew well because they are successful, only to go on and note Ottawa's success and how it has helped the attendance.

One of the reasons for the low numbers is the awful playoff hockey shown. It just wasn't a good playoff. 1 game 7, practically no upsets, not alot of hatred and poor scheduling.

[TBLfan 25]

I'll believe that once I see some numbers. Another thing you have to look at is if the arena/team is selling out is it making enough money to sustain it self ? Yes I know Tampa/Carolina have good attendance numbers but I also know for a fact ticket prices are much cheaper there. Attendance is important but it goes far beyond that. How are the tickets sold ? Are a lot of them giveaways etc? . Yes people will show up for the finals, but they show up because its the finals. For example I think in Ottawa for the team to be profitable it needed to advance into the second round to do so and yet 99% of the regular season games have been sold out. Compared to other Canadian cities with NHL teams Ottawa is a fairly small market, but things are getting better each year and are really looking up, because its a good hockey market. The team is young and competitive and the organization is run very well. They support the community and the community supports it, I mean would you get 1000's of fans welcoming home a losing team if Ottawa won ? well that was the case here. I remember it wasn't too long ago the team almost went bankrop (that had more to do with politics and taxes tho) and seeing the support the sens have right now is just amazing. I think this year they had to stop selling season tickets for next year to have room for general admission as the demand is overwhelming. In Toronto you might have to wait a couple decades to get your hands on some season tickets. Season tickets is where the money is for teams.

But you see what I am saying, good attendance is a start but it goes far beyond that, you have to look at the overall market and commitment the community is willing to make to the team.

You want to see numbers but don't take in account of attendance because the ticket prices are "low?" Even compared to lower ticket prices beforehand when the Lightning were losing? ...Ok, well how exactly do you want me to go about getting numbers of how many people were in local leagues from then and now? I'm sure they will open their books for me because someone on a message board is making assumptions.

[JR Boucicaut 3801]

The Lightning really do not apply here - Davidson makes all of his money on the concerts he has in the building. He does the same thing up here in Michigan with the Palace. So essentially, having low prices for Lightning tix isn't going to break him - they're just 41 nights in that building.

[TBLfan 25]

agreed, but what I'm argueing about is that winning the cup did wonders for the sport of hockey in the area.

[GSHL99 0]

The NHL needs to come to grips with the fact that hockey is a particapation oriented sport, and that makes it very very different than football, basketball, and baseball. That's why as big as football is at the professional level you've got Riddell that basically makes all football gear. Whereas hockey is much smaller but is able to support a range of successful companies that manufactor gear. Instead of playing to that, which should be a positive, idiots like Gary Buttboy are trying to devolve the game into a spectator entertainment venue. In doing so they continue to drive away the actual fan base. You have to make sure your core base of customers is happy with the product before you can try and attract new customers.

[Chadd 916]

The NHL needs to come to grips with the fact that hockey is a particapation oriented sport, and that makes it very very different than football, basketball, and baseball.

No, it isn't. There are millions of people who love the game that have never laced up skates. That said, in the US, more people have played football, baseball or basketball while they were growing up.

That's why as big as football is at the professional level you've got Riddell that basically makes all football gear. Whereas hockey is much smaller but is able to support a range of successful companies that manufactor gear.

WTF?

Instead of playing to that, which should be a positive, idiots like Gary Buttboy are trying to devolve the game into a spectator entertainment venue.

Yeah, why would anyone want to make the game more entertaining to watch? What the hell is thinking.

In doing so they continue to drive away the actual fan base. You have to make sure your core base of customers is happy with the product before you can try and attract new customers.

The NHL set a new attendance record again this year, sound like they are doing a good job of drawing more fans than they lose. They continue to lose TV ratings but that is a different story. In addition to the loss of casual fans, existing fans don't bother watching. The difference with hockey is that fans stop watching when their team is eliminated. Every football fan watches the superbowl, most baseball fans watch the world series, very few hockey fans watch the stanley cup playoffs. Most hockey fans are fans of their team and not of the sport in general.

[TBLfan 25]

In doing so they continue to drive away the actual fan base. You have to make sure your core base of customers is happy with the product before you can try and attract new customers.

The NHL set a new attendance record again this year, sound like they are doing a good job of drawing more fans than they lose. They continue to lose TV ratings but that is a different story. In addition to the loss of casual fans, existing fans don't bother watching. The difference with hockey is that fans stop watching when their team is eliminated. Every football fan watches the superbowl, most baseball fans watch the world series, very few hockey fans watch the stanley cup playoffs. Most hockey fans are fans of their team and not of the sport in general.

I think that has a lot to do with overall presentation. VS presentation is just outright bad, plus it's on VS a channel that I only watch for hockey and LAX and most people don't even know it's even a channel! NBC's broadcast is decent, if you get rid of Hull, but it's not consistant. You flip on NBC on the weekends and sometimes hockey is on, sometimes it's an early game sometimes a late afternoon game. Unless it's a Lightning game I'm not going to keep track with exactly when and where a game is available to watch, but I'll watch a game (if it's a good matchup) if I know it's going to be on.

Hell, look at the finals. We had two games on VS, one that was locally blacked out on NBC(was shown on catch 47, a florida cable network) but shown on NBC HD, and two that were actually on NBC. Inconsistancy, I shouldn't have to search across three channels for a finals game.

[GSHL99 0]

No, it isn't. There are millions of people who love the game that have never laced up skates. That said, in the US, more people have played football, baseball or basketball while they were growing up.

Given hockey's TV ratings that doesn't seem very likely. It's not nearly as participation oriented as motorcross, but the fact is a large percentage of hockey fans are also part of the legions of beer league players. I'm unaware of the existence of any recreational tackle football league.

WTF?

Name another major manufactorer of football gear besides Riddell? Anyone know a sporting good or speciality shop of any kind that sales anything but incidental football gear outside of youth sizes? Schutt, Douglas, and Adams have small market shares. There's no retail market for these products. Team sales at the high school, college, and professional levels are it for adult football gear. Very limited sales, and very limited product lines. You can convince a consumer to buy your product on an impluse/want basis. Selling to bodies like schools have limited potential. If a percentage of football fans that watched the NFL played tackle football equal to the percentage of NHL fans that play ice hockey there would be enough market share to support dozens of makers.

Yeah, why would anyone want to make the game more entertaining to watch? What the hell is thinking.

The success has really been noted. A minor cable company and Saturday morning NBC overage (unless there's a horse race) show the loads of success.

The NHL set a new attendance record again this year, sound like they are doing a good job of drawing more fans than they lose. They continue to lose TV ratings but that is a different story. In addition to the loss of casual fans, existing fans don't bother watching. The difference with hockey is that fans stop watching when their team is eliminated. Every football fan watches the superbowl, most baseball fans watch the world series, very few hockey fans watch the stanley cup playoffs. Most hockey fans are fans of their team and not of the sport in general.

If the entertainment venue idea was working like you claim then you'd see the reverse, lower attendece and higher TV ratings. However, the best the NHL could do is VS. and Saturday morning NBC coverage. People don't tune out because their team is out, they tune out because the play-offs and finals run too long. When you have a winter sport ending in June it's hardly any wonder that the only people still watching are those with a pony in the race.

[UMWhockey 0]

hockey did take a big jump in Raleigh right after the cup, but it took the biggest jump in Learn to Play Hockey with 4-7 year olds. Right now there is not enough ice in the Raleigh area to support all the travel and house hockey.... I know because I have work at some of the rinks and coach travel hockey down here. Right now in the Raleigh/Durham area we have 7 sheets of ice and they are full in the winter. While the attendance at canes games dropped this year, their impact on youth hockey has been big. Raleigh is a growing market that is projected to be as big as Atlanta in about 7 years. As long as the Canes stay competitive they will only help youth hockey in the area. While that might not contribute a ton to attendance since many kids have practices on nights the canes play, it will in the end create more hockey families which will grow the sport in popularity in the area. Duke, UNC, and NC State all have club hockey teams and the Raleigh area is starting to produce some national bound teams that are having success. I think we would be stupid to think that a team in a non-traditional market is not good for the sport because it is the opposite. While the effect might not be league or national wide, there is still a benefit. Hockey needs to grow at the grassroots level and this is one of the best ways to do it. Right now bars in Raleigh are more likely to show a Hockey play-off game in which the canes are not involved in than a basketball play-off game. How many cities can say that. I know first hand that Carolina winning that cup has made a huge impact on the Raleigh area and it will pay dividends in the long run for the sport of hockey.

[hockechamp14 0]

Whatever happened to the NHL breakout program they were running in NHL cities a while back for youth hockey? I know they had my dad coach at one before when I was little.

[TBLfan 25]

The NHL/city of Tampa built an outdoor hockey rink when the All-star game was played in Tampa. It's being maintained by the city and is free to use, kids and adults can play at given times but you really have to dig around to find out when you can play. It wasn't really built in a good area but it has certainly has a decent impact on getting people involved into hockey or getting people re-involved back into hockey.

[JGraz15 53]

Good article on a somewhat similar note:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs2007...&id=2897840

[chippa13 1844]

Name another major manufactorer of football gear besides Riddell? Anyone know a sporting good or speciality shop of any kind that sales anything but incidental football gear outside of youth sizes?

Gee, I guess there is only one company making cleats, performance wear, receiver gloves.................oh...........wait.............no there are plenty.

Football America stocks high quality youth and adult football helmets from Schutt, Adams, Riddell, Bike, and Nokona.

[TBLfan 25]

and don't forget that RBK, Underarmour and Nike are active in the game as well.