Teams/players that sandbag

[KingPest19 0]

Last night had our first league game. We as a team play in an intermediate division. Finished 2nd last year. The team we played come out and smoked us 13-2. 10-1 after the first. Turns out they have a few players that have played ACHA and ECAC hockey. And a few more that have played high level travel.

What are some of your feelings on things like this. Our team was a little pissed off to say the least. These guys should definitely be in the highest division where we play but the league director says they arent that good. These guys quit playing and were just messing around after goal 10. What drives guys with that type of talent to player lower level hockey?

[trox_355 0]

Some of the guys I've talked with don't want the high-level competition and just enjoy a decent skate. These are the same guys that would switch up and patrol the blue line if they used to play wing, but it doesn't sound like that's what you had the other night.

[thorpedo26 0]

they will make you better playing against them

every league has a few just part of it

[Chadd 916]

they will make you better playing against them

Bullshit. Playing against a team that is that much more advanced than you are doesn't benefit anyone. Playing a team that is slightly better than you are can force you to step up. Playing a team that is so obviously superior, will do nothing more than suck the life out of the team and the players.

[Hooah4 12]

I agree w/Chadd. Getting pounded every week doesn't help you play better when you are primarily chasing the other team the whole time.

That's the primary reason I am now playing in the 35+ C/D division. I can't compete with former ECHL, collegiate guys etc. playing in the B/C leagues around here One kid was playing in men's league who was skating w/the Oswego Admirals last season. He would score 7-8 goals himself. Thing can get dangerous when that shit happens week after week. I also blame the rink for allowing it to happen. Every season was the same thing so I'm gone.

[chk hrd 164]

I agree with Chadd and Hooah, especially the danderous part. Getting embarrassed leeds to frustration, which usually ends in someone doing something stupid. You gain nothing as a player by playing a team that is far superior than you. After the first 8 or so goals most players and teams pretty much shut down and stop doing anything productive. I blame it on the rinks. It is thier responsibility to make sure that the leagues are fairly even. The guys who put together the "super" teams and try to sandbag a lower divison are douchebags. They want that trophy.

[bobovski 1]

They want that trophy.

In our league, it's a shirt. I mean, c'mon, sandbagging for a shirt? That's weak.

[KingPest19 0]

Some of the guys I've talked with don't want the high-level competition and just enjoy a decent skate. These are the same guys that would switch up and patrol the blue line if they used to play wing, but it doesn't sound like that's what you had the other night.

With those guys i can kind of understand, but only one of them did and that was after being up 10-1 with only 1 guy on the bench. Playing back on d in a lower league i dont really have a big problem with unless the guy is 2 or 3 down from where hes at. These guys have made no effort to conceal that they have played college level and do just enough to win big but no in a way that gets them moved up.

I agree with Chadd and Hooah, especially the danderous part. Getting embarrassed leeds to frustration, which usually ends in someone doing something stupid. You gain nothing as a player by playing a team that is far superior than you. After the first 8 or so goals most players and teams pretty much shut down and stop doing anything productive. I blame it on the rinks. It is thier responsibility to make sure that the leagues are fairly even. The guys who put together the "super" teams and try to sandbag a lower divison are douchebags. They want that trophy.

Thats pretty much what happened. A few of us kept playing hard but that was just out of habit. We werent the first to complain to the league director but apparently the answer was the same. We were told that if they had all their guys they would be in the elite division. These guys as a team are head and shoulders above everyone else in the division. My big gripe is how is a team that has ex college players on it being slotted in an intermediate division? Especially after the league guys have been told and more than one complaint. As it is I put a stop payment on the fee check because of this.

They want that trophy.

In our league, it's a shirt. I mean, c'mon, sandbagging for a shirt? That's weak.

Ours is a small trophy. I got bigger ones in little league.

[GoHabsGo24 1]

I completely agree with everyone. It is dangerous, and i've seen many a fight occur because of this. The rink, hockey coordinator are to blame. And in my case, the hockey coordinator has his own team, AND sandbags it. Utter BS if you ask me!

[Chadd 916]

Unless you win at the highest level in your area, you're not really winning anything.

[Cavs019 710]

Sorry, but constantly playing up did wonders for my development. Playing against stiffer competition forces you to play out of your comfort zone. Afterwards, playing against players at your level seems like slow-motion. If you are a baby that cares only about winning and not about your own development, then you deserve to have the "life sucked out of you." Unfortunately most people aren't that disciplined.

[Jarick 5]

I started playing against B/C level players (more B than C). I was probably beginner/D and it really pushed my development. Now that was probably more of a stretch than I needed, but I'm better off for it.

I've skated a couple times with guys who were probably A/B level, it's just WAY too much of a stretch. My confidence is completely gone as I can't keep up with their skating or playmaking. I can't imagine that does anything for my development as I barely get a chance to even touch the puck let alone make a play.

I prefer playing against guys who are just above my level than playing guys at or just below. Then again, I'm on the cusp of D/C so I'm usually on the high end of the D team or low end of the C team.

[Chadd 916]

Sorry, but constantly playing up did wonders for my development. Playing against stiffer competition forces you to play out of your comfort zone. Afterwards, playing against players at your level seems like slow-motion. If you are a baby that cares only about winning and not about your own development, then you deserve to have the "life sucked out of you." Unfortunately most people aren't that disciplined.

Development isn't a primary concern for beer league players. I do agree that playing with/against better players will help you develop as long as you aren't playing against better players and with lesser players. If the talent gap is too big, it is not productive.

[DEATHTRON 19]

Constantly playing up can help develop you, but so can playing down. Playing up you get used to the speed and passing etc. Playing down I have found really can help with your offensive instincts and confidence, all in all, it is very important, but for the average beer league, I think things should be evened out.

Zach

[Cavs019 710]

Chadd by that regard I agree with you, as you aren't going to see the huge spikes in development that kids go through as they mature. Most beer leaguers from what I've seen have already peaked and simply want to have fun out there.

[chk hrd 164]

Sorry, but constantly playing up did wonders for my development. Playing against stiffer competition forces you to play out of your comfort zone. Afterwards, playing against players at your level seems like slow-motion. If you are a baby that cares only about winning and not about your own development, then you deserve to have the "life sucked out of you." Unfortunately most people aren't that disciplined.

This can be true at the youth level but not for the mens/beer league. Most guys have already reached thier potential level and are on they way down. They skate for the exercise and for the love of the game.

Playing up can do wonders for development, but you need to be a player who is on the cusp of playing to that level. If you take some poor guy who is a D level player and throw him in with a bunch of College/Junior players he will learn only frustration. They will always be behind the play, rarely be involved and seldom touch the puck. At that difference of levels the game is to fast for them.

I have seen this happen to many times. I am a 42 year old, solid B level player and played on a team with ex college and junior players. We played against other teams with college/junior and echl refs. There were times where I felt out of place because of thier speed.

There is always the other alternative; if you are a somewhat capable player (c league) and play with a mix of c/d players you can get a big confidence boost out of it.

[Lufria 1]

i know this topic's been focusing on Ice Hockey for the most part, and i'm more of a roller player, but sandbagging is almost a part of how you have to play, or at least that's how i feel.

Everything from players that play gold/platinum that play in beginner leagues, all the way to national tournaments. just a quick look at the local rinks around here shows guys averaging 5.6 points a game, with 54 points in 10 games in the beginner division, and looking from the season before, he played in the 3rd highest division.

On the national side of things, Torhs always allows one pro player per adult division. It's kinda rediculous when Michigan Performance Hockey, a Torhs PRO tier-1 champion, takes most of their team and puts them in Adult Silver, and makes it work.

Do i think it's right? Not in the least bit, but i feel like that's just the way the sport is in general. Nothing wrong with challange, but there's nothing great about going onto the rink, and realizing "man, these guys are so rediculously good compared to us, it's not even fun to be here."

[KingPest19 0]

Chadd by that regard I agree with you, as you aren't going to see the huge spikes in development that kids go through as they mature. Most beer leaguers from what I've seen have already peaked and simply want to have fun out there.

Thats why we put this team together. Just a beer league team for fun. The youngest guy is 25 26 yrs old. We just want to have fun not get killed by guys playing down a few levels from what they should be.

[Remman 0]

As it is I put a stop payment on the fee check because of this.

That's great that you did that. It is absolutely unfair to pay decent money for a league and end up getting ran over by guys who don't want a challenge. I guess I am fortunate in the fact that our rink management is pretty good. The owner knows the players and doesn't allow "ringers" in certain divisions. If you ask permission, you can play on a lower level team with friends if you don't go ballistic on the ice.

I also think some of these people tried to make it big and failed, and they feast on the lower players...

[W.Heinle 0]

If that's what they (sadbaggers) need to inflate their little egos...so be it. More pathetic than anything IMHO

[Lfntn10 0]

I'll admit that I have done that before, I played in the C level of the adult league here. However, I was the only one like myself that played on that team so it wasn't really that bad. I just knew people and I wanted to help out the cause. But I understand where other people come from when they get pissed off at it, because it really isn't fair and some of this falls on the director of the league. I think the referees should be involved as well and point out any players that don't belong.

[All Torhs Team 0]

they will make you better playing against them

Bullshit. Playing against a team that is that much more advanced than you are doesn't benefit anyone. Playing a team that is slightly better than you are can force you to step up. Playing a team that is so obviously superior, will do nothing more than suck the life out of the team and the players.

That is all up to the worse teams mind set. If they know that they cant compete and they know that the only benefit they will get is learning, then it can still be fun. When the worse team starts hanging their heads - thats when they start quitting and it "sucks the life out of them".

If the worse team knows that the better team is playing down, it can be beneficial.

Its all about attitude.

I know plenty beer league players who want and enjoy playing against much more talented HS/college players. Even though they cant get much better, they enjoy the competition. But of course not getting blown out.

[Elwood 0]

For me this all depends on consistency. In our league every div 3/4 team has one or two upper division guys. We learned to match lines as best we can. Sure they get their goals, but we get ours too (unless we are short or have a bad night). This provides a challenge but keeps it as close to 'fair' as possible.

What gets me really mad is when those guys turn on the burners when its the playoffs. Coupla of seasons ago we were up 3-1 in our playoff final. Their sandbagger D-man gets the green light and does 3 end-to end rushes in a row to score 3 goals - literally dangling through our entire team each time. Pathetic.

-E

[Louie 28]

Our team has lost several championship games in our league because of teams bringing in player to play in that game. The one team had 2 or 3 girls that were hell of hockey players, they sat them along with 3 other guys to bring in more college guys. Two of the girls sat on the bench, not in uniform, and the other guys were in the stands... how do you play an entire season then sit for the most important game...

[jeffw 1]

Our team has lost several championship games in our league because of teams bringing in player to play in that game. The one team had 2 or 3 girls that were hell of hockey players, they sat them along with 3 other guys to bring in more college guys. Two of the girls sat on the bench, not in uniform, and the other guys were in the stands... how do you play an entire season then sit for the most important game...

I captain a beer league team and would never do that to any of my players. All of my guys play every situation. There are times when I might stack a line late if we need a goal but I would never make my guys sit like that. I'd rather lose.

Come to think of it, our league wouldn't allow it to happen anyways. ;)