After workout Supplements

[BMcDonald19 0]

creatine ethyl ester..gets you in shape drastically..

and its not creatine monohydrate that just fills your muscles up with water

i heard creatine really takes a toll on your liver

[hockeyplayah18 0]

creatine ethyl ester..gets you in shape drastically..

and its not creatine monohydrate that just fills your muscles up with water

i heard creatine really takes a toll on your liver

i wouldnt be surprised..im just trying to get some muscle mass before tryouts..

[Trooper 8]

creatine ethyl ester..gets you in shape drastically..

and its not creatine monohydrate that just fills your muscles up with water

i heard creatine really takes a toll on your liver

i wouldnt be surprised..im just trying to get some muscle mass before tryouts..

Then lift and eat right year round. Creatine in any form isn't going to just put muscle on you. This thread is getting worse all the time.

[willy0314 0]

Then lift and eat right year round. Creatine in any form isn't going to just put muscle on you. This thread is getting worse all the time.

+1

all creatine does is let you work a TINY bit harder in the gym. Working harder in the gym creates the opportunity for more muscle growth (if you eat right, drink enough water, and get a good nights sleep) Creatine itself doesn't make your body gain any amount of muscle at all.

Myself, I did take creatine for a while, and while I did see some gains, I think that they were mostly placebo effects. I never experianced any of the problems people always create when they talk about creatine (muscle pulls, puffy from reataining water ect). But for all the gains I saw when I was taking CEE and mono, I've seen much better gains just by simply fine tuning my diet.

I wouldn't doubt that the stuff is bad for your kidneys or liver, you putting a bunch of crap into your system that shouldn't be there. Go to www.bodybuilding.com there is a thread with like 100 pages about creatine and CEE. Someone did an actuall study on it and IIRC it proved that most CEE was just mono and filler, and that it was mostly just junk....its a good read at any rate.

[nni 0]

creatine wont be hard on your liver, and i think you misread the article willy.

creatine ethyl ester is the ethyl ester form of monydrate, which is to put it extremely simply (and slightly incorrectly) is creatine with an alcohol molecule attached. the supposed benefits of this is a smaller dose, and no bloat and no gastric distress. there have been only two studies of note about CEE on showing that it breaks down quickly (just like mono) which i was not supposed to, and a study done on a third party supplement which used a cee trial as a comparison and it showed that cee did in fact work.

that being said, anyone who wants to try creatine, should try creatine monohydrate first! take it with a carb source and you are set.

[willy0314 0]

its very possible that I didn't take away all the info I should have, the thread was rediculously long, and inbetween all the information was 25 post of people claiming "THIS is the best shit ever" "no it sucks" blah blah blah.

Regardless I should have phrased my other post differently though. The thread I was refering to tested a bunch of the lead selling brands of different CEE products; not the substance CEE itself. I remember it finding that most were nothing more then monohydrate and filler among other things. At any rate, that was last year I think, and I'm to lazy to go searching for that thread.

[nni 0]

its very possible that I didn't take away all the info I should have, the thread was rediculously long, and inbetween all the information was 25 post of people claiming "THIS is the best shit ever" "no it sucks" blah blah blah.

Regardless I should have phrased my other post differently though. The thread I was refering to tested a bunch of the lead selling brands of different CEE products; not the substance CEE itself. I remember it finding that most were nothing more then monohydrate and filler among other things. At any rate, that was last year I think, and I'm to lazy to go searching for that thread.

yeah, i remember that, bill w did that for his magazine and recanted as he found out (after the threat of litigation) that the testing process was flawed. the article was never printed. love the bb.com drama. :)

[willy0314 0]

I think your right, I remember skiming through the thread and wondering why whoever was posting about the study wouldn't answer questions about what brands he tested because he didn't want to get in trouble. Just goes to show you have to take everything you read with a grain of salt.

[Hockey* 0]

Sorry to bring up a dead topic but I guess this is the best thread to ask my question.

I'm looking at weigh protein and i was wondering if it actually shows results, if theres certain brands that are better then others etc.

Ive read most of this thread so please spare me on the eat nutritous, or "dont waste your money" speeches.

[Remman 0]

Whey protein is an alternate and quick protein source. There are different types such as isolate, concentrate, soy, casein... Isolate has the least amount of fat and carbs, even though they are all very low.

Brand is up to you. None of this stuff is regulated by the FDA. I have heard of companies putting other additives in with the protein.

I use Optimum Nutrition. Mixes and tastes decent and I've never heard any negatives about the company. Good price too.

[nni 0]

Sorry to bring up a dead topic but I guess this is the best thread to ask my question.

I'm looking at weigh protein and i was wondering if it actually shows results, if theres certain brands that are better then others etc.

Ive read most of this thread so please spare me on the eat nutritous, or "dont waste your money" speeches.

whey protein is fine. the differences in whey are isolate, which is more expensive but better on the stomache if you have lactose issues, concentrate is cheaper, and just as good.

all brands are essentially the same, taste and quality varies.

Whey protein is an alternate and quick protein source. There are different types such as isolate, concentrate, soy, casein... Isolate has the least amount of fat and carbs, even though they are all very low.

Brand is up to you. None of this stuff is regulated by the FDA. I have heard of companies putting other additives in with the protein.

I use Optimum Nutrition. Mixes and tastes decent and I've never heard any negatives about the company. Good price too.

soy and casein are not whey, they are soy, and casein. isolate has jsut as much fat and carbs as the others, it is what the companies add that determines fat and carbs.

[Race4LastPlace 31]

About 6 months ago i started taking vitamins and supplements from a company called USANA and ive been very impressed. I take em daily and just wake up with so much more energy. Here in the US there is no law that requires companies to make sure vitamins and supplements contain what is actually on the label (buy a bottle of, just as an example, 'vitamin X 10mg' over the counter in the US, it could actually have less than 10mg or even no 'vitaminX' at all) but as long as they pose no threat to your body its legal. USANA is only 1 of like 4 comanies (and the cheapest i have found) to 100% guarentee the potancy of their product subjected to FDA approval. Also they have a $1mill guarantee for athletes that if you take these and come back on a drug test as tainted, you get that cash instantly--> been in effect for 7 years, and it hasnt been claimed yet.

just my thoughts

race

[nni 0]

actually there are laws in the USA that you have to meet label claims. very strict laws in fact. the FDA doesnt approve anything so that is a bogus claim, and it isnt very hard to make sure you arent tainting your product. buy, hey if it works for you, go for it.

[M-Cohen 0]

stay away from creatine. Youll pull every muscle in your body. Not litterally but you will pull a lot more muscles. plus it can mess up your stomach. i dont drink them but if you have a planet smoothie, they have protein smoothies that i heard were really good.

Thats a ridiculous blanket statement about Creatine. If done correctly you wont hurt yourself at all. You will need to drink alot of water over a day, and thats really it. What is right about your statement however is that you will pull your muscles. Thats kind of right. As I said, you need more water while on Creatine. If you don't do that you'll de-hydrate, resulting in more pulls/cramps. Just do a bit of research first and it's safe.

[Race4LastPlace 31]

Actually the FDA has absolutely nothing to do with vitamins/suplements. Ther are some laws, yes. Maybe i mis-stated myself, you wont buy one product to have an entirely different vitamin in it, and it cant be harmful. that is about the only law regarding vitamins/supplements. If it read like i said something else i'm sorry. I watched a commercial today for Centrum vitamins. They said things like "increased vitamin A to help blah blah blah". But if you read the print at the bottom of the screen, it reads "These Statements have not been evaluated by the FDA".

All I'm saying is that if Vitamin X is listed at 10mg on the bottle. Ther is ABSOLUTELY NO GUARANTEE that you are getting 10mg if any at all, or that all tablets in said bottle are equivalent. Do i believe you get some...yes, but there is NO law in the US that make vitamins prove potency or even effectiveness. Check the FDA's website about vitamins, or even read third party research about OTC vitamin potency and you'll see that. The fda does not evaluate, regulate, or basically even look at vitamins and supplements.

Thats why i trust USANA, they are one of the only companies in the world that subject themselves to the same testing as fda approved drugs.

Sorry for the long post but this is important information.

Canada has universal healthcare right? yes. So if they could find a way to save on major healthcare costs by finding a vitamin that could help people live a healthier life reducing dr. visits and helping against illness, they should invest in it right? Well the canadian government commissioned 6 Dr's to evaluate over 1600 vitamins and supplements, and present the best. The Doctors presented 4 companies. #1 was USANA. Out of all the vitamins and supplements in the world, A study conducted by medical advisors to the Canadian government named USANA as the gold standard of them all. You can read that yourself in The Comparative Guide To Nutritional Medicine, 3rd edition i believe. Mind you, that Canada has way higher standards than the US does about vitamins and things like that.

Okay im done... sorry again :P

any other questions just let me know.

race

[nni 0]

yes, the fda does not regulate supplements (which i said). in america the dshea act is the law that protects users from supplements. and YES if the product is tested and does not meet label claims, then that company will be faced with a heap of legal problems, and YES this is not the FDA jurisdiction, but the labels have to be met, and have to be labeled properly. the problem lies in that with so many companies, some many can slip gargabe through.

there is no law guaranteeing that what they claim is accurate, not ingredient or labelwise, more of "product x will make you huge." maybe that is what you are confusing.

[Race4LastPlace 31]

i understand what you are saying. the dshea act does protect but basically its a step down of the law before 93 or so. DSHEA took the resposibility away from the fda (which now has vitamins in the same catergory as food, not drug) and gave responsibility to the manufacture of vitamins. I dont approve of the dshea because of what it has allowed to become legal:

Supplements do not have to prove they work to be sold.

Supplements do not have to prove they are safe to be sold.

Supplement manufacturers can put “structure-function claims” on their labels, so long as they don’t claim to “prevent” or “treat” a specific disease.

Supplements do not have to be manufactured according to any set Good Manufacturing Practice standards like drugs are.

Several independent labs are testing products' contents and finding that several don’t contain what is stated on the label. One company, www.consumerlab.com, analyzes several brands of supplements for quality and purity and reports its findings on its web site. For instance, in October and November 2000, ConsumerLab.com purchased and tested 21 leading brands of St. John’s Wort and found that 1/3 either did NOT contain the stated amount of the active ingredients or were contaminated with unacceptable levels of cadmium (a toxic heavy metal).

DSHEA and the fda only step in now to prove something is NOT safe, NOT true, and only if it was brought to their attention. Thats my beef, that this law is not proactive with my safety or health.

[Hockey* 0]

Okay well i have a question about this "USANA." What kind of suppliments are they like are they creatin, whey etc. what? Or is it all of the "above?"

[Sven 1]

I personally use this Weider Soy 80+ stuff. Works wonders.

Suitable for vegetarians/vegans and actually better than whey protein.

(Link: http://www.weider-germany.de/global.php?se.../definition4#1)

[Aussie Joe 0]

Weider is a top brand we stock some power towers of theirs here and people always whine about their cost but we never get returns. Good stuff.

Im wondering are there any alternates for Vegans other than Soy which is fairly crap in most brands?

[Hockey* 0]

I personally use this Weider Soy 80+ stuff. Works wonders.

Suitable for vegetarians/vegans and actually better than whey protein.

(Link: http://www.weider-germany.de/global.php?se.../definition4#1)

Is there an english version of that site?

[swede 49]

Weider is a top brand we stock some power towers of theirs here and people always whine about their cost but we never get returns. Good stuff.

Im wondering are there any alternates for Vegans other than Soy which is fairly crap in most brands?

Hmm.. i wonder if it's just in Sweden, but lately weider has had som really big problems selling stuff here, because of their so called mistake when printing the labels to the "Mega mass" products..

They listed whey as the main protein source, but the amino acid profile gave another answer -Kollagen!!.. They claimed the amino acid profile was a "missprint", but tests showed that it did contain kollagen, not whey! However, they now use whey instead of kollagen, but their reputation is damaged.

The best selling brands over here are Twinlab and Swedish brand "Fairing". I still prefer Optimums stuff over anything else.....

[N!! 0]

The amount of misinformation in this thread is staggering!

If you want to know how a One90 skate fits compared to a XXXX skate, by all means ask. -but you wouldn't ask how to change your car's alternator on MSH, so why ask for nutritional advice?

As a former professional trainer, I can tell you that anyone who gives you a black and white answer doesn't know what they're talking about. Short of maybe good diet and avoid steroids. LOL. Seriously, I wouldn't recommend ANYTHING more than good diet and maybe whey protein without consulting a doctor, if for no other reason than help you to not throw away your money.

.....but that's not to say supplements are bad. This thread is about advice. And my (former) professional advice is that no one here knows enough about YOU, your body, your goals, your history, etc. etc. to give you the advice you want.

....and I'm not gonna say what other people are doing is wrong either. I'm just saying there's a big difference between the statements: "what worked for me" and "here's what YOU should do".

Excellent advice. Of course, the fact that whey protein is basically nothing more than a finely milled and artificially flavored canister of dehydrated milk is beside the point as well. I guess the "secret" of turning a $3 container into a $60-100 one is too much for me to bear.

[Sven 1]

I personally use this Weider Soy 80+ stuff. Works wonders.

Suitable for vegetarians/vegans and actually better than whey protein.

(Link: http://www.weider-germany.de/global.php?se.../definition4#1)

Is there an english version of that site?

Oops, i thought it was in English. Sorry.

Anyways, check http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/ for more infos. AFAIK they are rebuilding the site so it might appear offline.

[Race4LastPlace 31]

Usana is mostly an everyday vitamin ranging from vitamin c, omega3, to a variety of supplements, nutritional shakes, and energy bars. USANA is a partnering sponsors of the womens professional tennis tour. Sponsors several professional boxers. and it is the primary sponsor and preffered supplement of the Olympic Canadian speed skating team. Its not like creatine or whey, or l-glutamine. Its not a quick stronger feeling, but a better overall healthy feeling. I take Proflavanol 90 (high level antioxidant) and Procosa II (high potency glucosamine sulfate and turmeric. helps with cartilage and joint maintenance)