Referee ettiquette

[srv2miker 0]

Okay, this has been bugging me all week, and I need some opinions.

I never played hockey growing up, I only picked up the game as an adult, so sometimes I feel like I missed out on a lot of the "unwritten rules" etc. That's why I'm not sure if I made a big boo boo last week or not (I don't think so, but I was hoping someone else might be able to comment.)

I'm playing defense, and the puck is in the offensive zone. We don't have complete control of the puck, so I'm stationed about 2-3' feet away from the blueline. The ref is standing against the boards about 1 foot inside the blueline watching the play.

The puck gets rung around the boards to my side. I bolt to the boards to try to hold the puck in. The Ref is backing up to avoid the oncoming forward (who's obviously trying to get the puck and get on the attack), but he's moving in such away that he's going to block me from reaching the puck. I've got about half a second to react, so put my stick against the boards to try to stop the puck, and I put my hand out to brace the ref from crashing in to me. Let me make sure this point is clear: I didn't push the ref, I just put my hand out so we wouldn't smash into one another.

The ref feels me behind him, he turns around and yells at me "watch where the f*ck you're going!". I take a moment to stare bewildered at him, and then I skate after the forward, who of course got around me and is skating away.

I definitely thought it was weird and unprofessional, but I shrugged it off. That is until later when I got the biggest bogus call I've ever had against me. I was in the corner with a teammate and opponent fighting for the puck. My teammate is scrumming with the player, and I'm digging the puck out with my stick. The opposing player loses his balance, and falls due to his own clumsyness. I grab the puck and the whistle blows immediately. Sure enough, it's that Ref whistling me for hooking. My stick was on the ice the entire time, and I was literally standing in front of the player when he fell, but I got a hooking penalty. My teammate had his stick on the ice the whole time, and it never made contact with the other player, so the Ref couldn't have just confused the two of us.

The only explanation I can think of is that the ref called me to get back at me for our earlier run-in. I guess my question is, did I violate some sacred code of Referee contact, and I deserved what I got, or was the Ref out of line?

[moose77 0]

First of all, greetings from just across the line from you in Birch Bay, Washington! I've been to Langley many times and you have a nice little city. From time to tome we like to come up and enjoy a movie at the Colossus.

Back to your question, from your description you were most certainly NOT out of line! From what I could gather, you were just protecting yourself. As an official, there have been times where I've had to do the same thing and I've NEVER cussed at a player to "watch where the eff you're going!" Occasionally I've had run-ins with players and even been knocked down a time or two. I've just chalked it up under the "sh*t happens" category and let it go. Your ref sounds like he had burr under his saddle or something. It wasn't very professional on his part to do that.

I will admit though, there has been one time that comes to mind where I did cuss at a player for running into me. Two years ago I was lining a Midget C House game and as back liney I had to dash back to cover for the ref on a breakaway pass as he was back on the goal line. I stayed with then pulled ahead of the shooter, taking my position where the goal line meets the end boards. The shooter scored and turned left, doing all sorts of crazy celebrations including dropping to his knee, pumping his fist, and other theatrics. While he was celebrating, he didn't bother to see I was in the corner right in front of him and he was heading towards me. I started yelling at him to look up because I was in front of him, then moved right to avoid being run into. Idiot still had his head down not paying attention so I had to put my hands up to protect myself. Apparently the shooter didn't weigh too much and he bounced off of me and onto the ice. Junior looks at me from a seated position on the ice and starts cursing at me, saying "Hey ref, get the eff out of my way, G-D it!" So I skated over to said player and had a few choice words for him back. The player seemed shocked I talked to him like that but at the time I didn't care. I'd already been hurt that game and I was in no mood for any crap from some kid. I haven't done it since.

But again to answer your question, I don't think you did anything wrong and your ref overreacted. I hope the rest of your year goes better for you.

[Chadd 916]

Assuming this was a two man referee crew? Proper positioning for the referee is just outside the blue line when the puck is in the zone. If play is just entering the zone, the referee should be just inside the zone. That's what they teach at the level one USA Hockey clinic, I would assume Hockey Canada is similar.

A couple thoughts from a ten year ref:

Ref should never use an expletive directed at a player.

Some refs hold a grudge, those are not the good refs.

There's nothing you can do about those refs.

If this happens again, give the ref a verbal heads up. "Look out", "stay back", "watch out" or something similar. Don't reach out to the ref or put your hand up. It can give the wrong impression. You're better off looking like one of those mindless fools who can't see anything other than the puck. At a stoppage, before the penalty if possible, let the guy know you were trying to play the puck but wanted to make sure he didn't get hurt. A quick. "you ok?" before tearing off after the other guy can go along way. Even if you don't care if he's ok.

[D aka speck 0]

I agree with Chadd. No ref should ever use expletives directed at a player.

Furthermore, any experienced ref would have been well enough away from play (as refs are "observers") that they should not hinder the game.

Sounds like you dealt with an inexperienced ref.

Maybe someday, he'll become a good ref and maybe someday, I'll become a good player. :D

[chk hrd 164]

Sounds like you had a typical J.O. for a ref. If you are trying to play the puck it's his responsibility to get out of your way, not the other way around. You sound like you handled it better than alot of people because if a ref cussed my out I would have probably had a meaningful verbal exchanged with him. I've seen a ref come unglued on a Bantam player for high sticking him. The ref got himself out of position and was caught between two kids fighting for the puck (they were at the goal line when it happened) and one kids stick was lifted by the other kid and the blade got stuck in the ref's ear loop. I guess it scared the ref pretty bad because he went ballistick on the kid, even though he was way out of position.

A ref should never curse or scream at a player, it just causes more problems. You can usually tell when someone is inexperienced, unconfident or not able to do something correctly by the way they act. Thier first reaction is to get defensive and thier second reaction is usually to start screaming.

[Penguinsfanatic 0]

if its the same ref at another game with the same situation just crunch him lol

just kidding but that would be funny if he was making shitty calls but really just yell heads up at him

[Jason Harris 31]

I'd probably say, "Sorry, man...." just to let him know it was an accident.

You also should forward your story to the league. If a particular ref starts gets too many complaints, leagues will stop using him.

[Rustpot 1]

I don't pretend to be a good ref, I'm just earning my small paycheck for college rec league. So everyone on the ice is 18-22, refs and players, and everyone is a student. We do 2 on the ice, 1 in the box for score keeping, time, penalties, etc.

Usually if I'm caught out of position or I don't read the play (bad bounce or whatnot) and a player surprises me I'll usually say "woah buddy" or something similar.

Last year was my first year and it was pretty awkward for me. There's that inherent reaction to just go for a loose puck that made me hesitate once or twice, positioning is really a problem since their idea of training is "read the rules, blow the whistle".

Then again, a lot of the players just don't respect the refs. I've had the puck shot at me while I'm in the corner (shot from the slot), I've had a player barrel into me as I was trying to move away from the play, etc.

The thing that pisses me off the most is that almost every player thinks slashing someone's stick in half or corkscrewing a guy or throwing a guy out of the slot (in front of the crease) are legal plays that deserve no penalty.

Majors (repeat offense, intent to injure, unsportsmanlike) are also mysterious somehow. You tell a player they have 5 minutes and they react like checking a guy over the boards into the bench after the play in a no-checking league is somehow just as bad as getting your stick caught in their feet.

[usahockey22 0]

Many times if a ref gets hit, it's his fault for not getting out of the way, and it's just a part of the risk he takes reffing a hockey game where contact is inevitable.

However, if you are just playing in a recreational adult league, I could see where the ref would be pissed off--it's not supposed to be ultra-competitive, and you should just stop or skate around the guy rather than hit him to get at the puck...in a rec league the puck matters less than smashing a guy.

[chk hrd 164]

Many times if a ref gets hit, it's his fault for not getting out of the way, and it's just a part of the risk he takes reffing a hockey game where contact is inevitable.

However, if you are just playing in a recreational adult league, I could see where the ref would be pissed off--it's not supposed to be ultra-competitive, and you should just stop or skate around the guy rather than hit him to get at the puck...in a rec league the puck matters less than smashing a guy.

except alot of the time the player is focused on the play and not where the ref is standing. The ref needs to move out of the players way. Refs are considered part of the rink. If a puck or player hits them it's not a penalty unless it was completely initentional. Alot of refs don't understand this concept. I had this discussion with a ref because I almost hit him with a clearing pass off the boards. He felt the need to try and tell me how to play hockey. I responded by letting him know what a fine job he was doing by being out of position.

[Doctor Hook 0]

I love to clear off glass, and usually it's within a foot of a ref's head. One time I shot a puck off the ref's skate, and in the heat of the momo, I yell, "Get the f--- outta the way!" He gave me crap back and it was warranted, because I shouldn't have said that. I apologized later and shook hands because a man owns up to his mistake. Since then, I'll usually give refs plenty of leeway, even if they blow a call or two.

[TBLfan 25]

The etiquette thing goes both ways. Refs should respect players and players should respect refs. Most of the refs around here at least recognize me. I'll joke around with them just like I do with my teammates or guys/girls I coach. If I have an issue, I will always TALK with them about it.

What I would have done differently was I would have checked to make sure the ref is ok, if I cant spare the "You ok?" in the moment, it would have been as soon as I could(next whistle, next time we pass eachother while I'm heading to the bench, whatever). It may or may not avoid that next call but at least I know I did the respectable thing.

[Rustpot 1]

The etiquette thing goes both ways. Refs should respect players and players should respect refs. Most of the refs around here at least recognize me. I'll joke around with them just like I do with my teammates or guys/girls I coach. If I have an issue, I will always TALK with them about it.

I can't believe how many teams think yelling "Slash! Slash! Ref! Slash!" is going to automatically be a penalty. Making a play for the puck and having stick contact or a little stick play as players are going for the corner or battling for position always gets a rise out of the benches. Innocent play, maybe a little interference but they're both doing it, etc.

The teams that come up to us or use a time out to discuss how they feel the contact is one sided get a lot more respect and a careful eye rather than teams that just yell and try to tell you how to do your job.

The teams that bitch at us for every offside or other things that get called against them tend to get more called against them I've noticed Not making phantom calls or anything, but the questionable calls usually go in favor of the team that treats us well.

The worst is when both teams are bad. Those are the games you wish the clock ran a bit faster.

[chippa13 1844]

Assuming this was a two man referee crew? Proper positioning for the referee is just outside the blue line when the puck is in the zone. If play is just entering the zone, the referee should be just inside the zone. That's what they teach at the level one USA Hockey clinic, I would assume Hockey Canada is similar.

A couple thoughts from a ten year ref:

Ref should never use an expletive directed at a player.

Some refs hold a grudge, those are not the good refs.

There's nothing you can do about those refs.

If this happens again, give the ref a verbal heads up. "Look out", "stay back", "watch out" or something similar. Don't reach out to the ref or put your hand up. It can give the wrong impression. You're better off looking like one of those mindless fools who can't see anything other than the puck. At a stoppage, before the penalty if possible, let the guy know you were trying to play the puck but wanted to make sure he didn't get hurt. A quick. "you ok?" before tearing off after the other guy can go along way. Even if you don't care if he's ok.

To add to this, anytime that I find myself in a ref's blind side or behind him if he is moving I'll toss out the "coming around ya".

The etiquette thing goes both ways. Refs should respect players and players should respect refs. Most of the refs around here at least recognize me. I'll joke around with them just like I do with my teammates or guys/girls I coach. If I have an issue, I will always TALK with them about it.

I can't believe how many teams think yelling "Slash! Slash! Ref! Slash!" is going to automatically be a penalty. Making a play for the puck and having stick contact or a little stick play as players are going for the corner or battling for position always gets a rise out of the benches. Innocent play, maybe a little interference but they're both doing it, etc.

The teams that come up to us or use a time out to discuss how they feel the contact is one sided get a lot more respect and a careful eye rather than teams that just yell and try to tell you how to do your job.

The teams that bitch at us for every offside or other things that get called against them tend to get more called against them I've noticed Not making phantom calls or anything, but the questionable calls usually go in favor of the team that treats us well.

The worst is when both teams are bad. Those are the games you wish the clock ran a bit faster.

Funny, this lack of consistency is probably what causes problems with the teams.

[LkptTiger 1]

I can't believe how many teams think yelling "Slash! Slash! Ref! Slash!"...

I prefer "Call it, Hannah!"

[Rustpot 1]

I wouldn't call it inconsistency, but I might say that douche teams don't get any favors as it were.

Both teams show up, clean slate. Call the captains over to have a quick word before the game to let them know how we call the game, keep it clean, tell your guys to keep the sticks down, watch the language, etc, get it started.

One team starts bitching about being hooked a lot. They're bitching just to bitch as we aren't in the NHL and a stick parallel to the ice isn't hooking. Maybe there's a bit of tugging, nothing too serious that needs calling, no one is interfering or holding up a player or anything.

The other team comes up during a break and says "hey guys, my number 44 over there is complaining to me that a few of there guys are rocking his ankles when you aren't looking, could you keep a heads up? Thanks".

I may be inclined to look behind the play and watch a bit more or tell the box ref to keep his eyes out for contact behind the play. Not that I wasn't before, but we all know how sneaky some bastards can be.

If the same team were idiots, they would just scream from the bench, berate us for not doing our jobs, get pissed off and lumberjack the next guy that gets close.

I had a goalie yesterday tackle a player because we weren't calling any of the slashes to his glove. The players on the other team were literally just poking his glove after a cover. We're talking a little poke, nothing to the back of the hand, nothing that would hurt him unless he were using a winter glove instead of a trapper. Instead of asking us to keep an eye out and help him he just bitched at us and accused us of calling the game in the other team's favor. A word to me means a word to the players on the other team to watch contact after the goalie gloves it. They keep doing it after a warning and a penalty comes from it. He tackles the guy and skates to the box screaming "give me 5 minutes, I don't fucking care anymore. You bastards can have the game!" So my partner ref sent him to the dressing room instead.

[chk hrd 164]

Both teams show up, clean slate.

Maybe in a perfect world. I've had/seen to many refs that come in and are holding a grudge because of something that happened in the past.

I try (but don't always succeed) in just trying to keep my mouth shut when a bad call is made. In all my years of hockey I've never had a ref go "hey, you know what you're right, let me reverse the call for ya".

I think inconsistancy is the biggest problem followed by lack of experience and/or knowledge of the game and a close third is the guys who just show up for the paycheck.

[moose77 0]

I can't believe how many teams think yelling "Slash! Slash! Ref! Slash!"...

I prefer "Call it, Hannah!"

Nice "Youngblood" reference!

One team starts bitching about being hooked a lot. They're bitching just to bitch as we aren't in the NHL and a stick parallel to the ice isn't hooking. Maybe there's a bit of tugging, nothing too serious that needs calling, no one is interfering or holding up a player or anything.

This isn't a USA Hockey sanctioned league, is it. I'm guessing not becuase when you mentioned that "we aren't in the NHL and a stick parallel to the ice isn't hooking", my first thought was "It isn't? Since when?" I know I was a bit of a hardass when the Standard of Play Initiative came out two seasons ago when doing adult rec hockey. It took an adjustment period, just like the big boys, but it's made the games light years more enjoyable to play and ref. In fact, they now get on us when we DON'T call the standard! The only real downside has been that the games have gotten faster so they take more out of you physically, but that ain't a bad thing. ;)

[Rustpot 1]

No, it's not USA hockey. It's college rec, a step below intramural. They use a specialized set of rules for the group of people and the skill set involved.

Some rules are pretty horrible. Checking is acceptable (though heavily regulated), but anything into the boards is an automatic 5 minute major to try and cut out unsafe play. It includes pinning players since you're pressing them into the boards. It's all good though, I'm done for the season as the 3 veterans (head ref, asst. head ref, 4 yr veteran) are taking the whole playoff bracket.

[TheBert 0]

Good ref etiquette would be to actually look at the players when they're asking you to keep an eye out for something. There's this one ref that just keeps nodding, chewing his gum and look around in the rafters. Makes you want to tell him that you boned his wife to see if he's actually listening.

[TBLfan 25]

I've rarely had issues with refs ignoring me, if one is ignoring me, the other one normally listens.

[QandA 0]

Many times if a ref gets hit, it's his fault for not getting out of the way, and it's just a part of the risk he takes reffing a hockey game where contact is inevitable.

However, if you are just playing in a recreational adult league, I could see where the ref would be pissed off--it's not supposed to be ultra-competitive, and you should just stop or skate around the guy rather than hit him to get at the puck...in a rec league the puck matters less than smashing a guy.

except alot of the time the player is focused on the play and not where the ref is standing. The ref needs to move out of the players way. Refs are considered part of the rink. If a puck or player hits them it's not a penalty unless it was completely initentional. Alot of refs don't understand this concept. I had this discussion with a ref because I almost hit him with a clearing pass off the boards. He felt the need to try and tell me how to play hockey. I responded by letting him know what a fine job he was doing by being out of position.

The ref has to be somewhere doesn't he. Sometimes it's not his fault that he's in the way and the puck hits him. He doesn't always have to move, he's gotta be somewheres. As for the ref being on the wrong side of the line, most refs should know you stand outside the line so when the puck is ringed around and for whatever reason hits you it goes out rather than staying in the zone.

Playing a game tonite, and the scorekeeper didn't put the penalty up on the boards so the other teams captain asks him when our guy who has the penalty gets out. The ref says doesn't know and just goes on to proceed with the playoff. So the captain goes to the timekeeper and asks him and the ref, as loud as the arena can hear him says "what the fuck are you doing line up for the draw or your gone." You'll always have refs on a power trip, it's not neccessarily a bad thing, but sometimes it seems as though they want the attention on them.

[D aka speck 0]

We're all human...

Some ref's are players with authority and no sticks and some players are self appointed refs.

Either side of this argument is tough as heck.

For every complaint about a ref, there's a complaint about several players.

For every complaint about a player, there's a complaint about several ref's.

It's a 2 sided street.

Respect commands respect, while indignigy commands disrespect.

We just have to remember the simple fact that refs are also human beings.

As are players (and spectators).

Treat then as such, and they will most likely return the favor.

Treat them poorly and (like anybody else) they will reciprocate that.

[chippa13 1844]

I wouldn't call it inconsistency, but I might say that douche teams don't get any favors as it were.

Both teams show up, clean slate. Call the captains over to have a quick word before the game to let them know how we call the game, keep it clean, tell your guys to keep the sticks down, watch the language, etc, get it started.

One team starts bitching about being hooked a lot. They're bitching just to bitch as we aren't in the NHL and a stick parallel to the ice isn't hooking. Maybe there's a bit of tugging, nothing too serious that needs calling, no one is interfering or holding up a player or anything.

The other team comes up during a break and says "hey guys, my number 44 over there is complaining to me that a few of there guys are rocking his ankles when you aren't looking, could you keep a heads up? Thanks".

I may be inclined to look behind the play and watch a bit more or tell the box ref to keep his eyes out for contact behind the play. Not that I wasn't before, but we all know how sneaky some bastards can be.

If the same team were idiots, they would just scream from the bench, berate us for not doing our jobs, get pissed off and lumberjack the next guy that gets close.

I had a goalie yesterday tackle a player because we weren't calling any of the slashes to his glove. The players on the other team were literally just poking his glove after a cover. We're talking a little poke, nothing to the back of the hand, nothing that would hurt him unless he were using a winter glove instead of a trapper. Instead of asking us to keep an eye out and help him he just bitched at us and accused us of calling the game in the other team's favor. A word to me means a word to the players on the other team to watch contact after the goalie gloves it. They keep doing it after a warning and a penalty comes from it. He tackles the guy and skates to the box screaming "give me 5 minutes, I don't fucking care anymore. You bastards can have the game!" So my partner ref sent him to the dressing room instead.

Not for nothing but the goalie issue could have been nipped in the bud. One thing you'll learn about rec/beer leagues, the quickest way to problems with a goalie is to let guys get away with those little pokes at the glove. They may seem innocent enough to you but goalies don't see it that way.

Another thing, don't wait for a team to ask you to watch for something. If you see something going on that can lead to problems later then just toss out the warning at that time. Waiting causes problems.

[Rustpot 1]

Not for nothing but the goalie issue could have been nipped in the bud. One thing you'll learn about rec/beer leagues, the quickest way to problems with a goalie is to let guys get away with those little pokes at the glove. They may seem innocent enough to you but goalies don't see it that way.

Another thing, don't wait for a team to ask you to watch for something. If you see something going on that can lead to problems later then just toss out the warning at that time. Waiting causes problems.

Good advice, thanks.

The goalie thing was actually kind of not preventable. I had no idea it was pissing him off, I didn't know that what he thought should have been called for slashing. If anyone had said something I would have stopped it. I attributed it mostly to frustrations of being down and out in the first round of the playoffs.

Most games aren't a problem. Most times it's either a team that doesn't think getting looked at funny should be allowed or a guy trying to get under their nerves. Pests draw penalties and cause frustration.

When playing last year I was creeping through the slot on a play, screening the goalie, and I had a defender act like I was screwing his wife on the ice and just came at me. I had been doing it most of the game, he was complaining about me "being in the crease" a lot and he eventually lumberjacked my shins and broke his stick. I can't recall exactly what it was, but he said something like "oh no you don't!" when he did it. I was speechless, but me and my shins were fine, maybe a few braincells exploded from witnessing it.

So, anyway, some things that cause problems aren't anything to start with and there's no way to stop them. The ref at one point told me to watch myself, I gave him a raised eyebrow and he just shrugged.