Breaking To Many Sticks

[cxo 0]

dude ur from sagniaw nothing good has ever come out of saginaw... u might as well be from flint

Yeah, you're right. Stevie Wonder, Serena Williams and Madonna never amounted to anything. Definitely not like those Detroit greats Eminem and Kid Rock, among others. We just can't compete.

not from detroit jackass im in grosse pointe

A place with even less to be proud of than... nearly anywhere else.

[D aka speck 0]

lol obv u have no clue what the hell ur talking abuot so im just not even gonna reply to ur retarded posts since ur clueless

Isn't THAT by definition, a reply :D

dude ur from sagniaw nothing good has ever come out of saginaw... u might as well be from flint

Yeah, you're right. Stevie Wonder, Serena Williams and Madonna never amounted to anything. Definitely not like those Detroit greats Eminem and Kid Rock, among others. We just can't compete.

not from detroit jackass im in grosse pointe

A place with even less to be proud of than... nearly anywhere else.

I love to witness fellow Michiganders squabble but, perhaps we should stay on topic.

[biff44 0]

As far as aluminum, I think I bought up all of the remaining easton aluminum shafts around 5 years ago. Have not seen any since, and I did cry when the last one of them broke!

They are still around. Every shop I've bene into has at least 2-3 random aluminum shafts.

Really? I have not looked in a long time, but I thought they were out of production for good. Who is still making them?

They are good for a Dman who is maybe 12-14 years old, as you can hack away without any worry about breaking the stick. Last at least 1/2 of the season! But they do not flex at all, and when they do flex they do so strangely with a twisting component--not good for slapshots.

[Jason Harris 31]

stop using pro stocks and buy the regular sticks that have the warranty u end up getting 2 for the price of one just break it before the 30 days lol

What's the point?

At most, you picked up 30 extra days on your 2-For-1. And there's no doubt that stick manufacturers are trying to cut down on this fraud, by making the consumer fill out a form and return the stick, so, at worse, the company flags you for habitually breaking sticks and stops sending replacements to you.

[Rustpot 1]

Ok, let's spell it out really quick.

Companies keep producing high end sticks that are better and better to get your money. The companies churn out new stuff to trump everyone else's new stuff to not loose business.

Warrior Spyne -> RBK O-tech -> Easton Ellipse. All a bunch of cash-grabbing gimmicks.

So let's say it costs $85 (going off toy drive limit assuming they used the $85 to cover stick costs in tax breaks) after everything to make one of those sticks. They are the cash cows for the brand, so they need a bit higher markup to cover less profit on low -end sticks that cost similar amounts to produce.

But everyone and their brother are going to send in for warranty, that same stick becomes $170 cost to the company. $210 retail after 10% for the store leaves $190 for the company.

So for every Stealth S17 that is sold, Easton makes maybe $20. Then factor in UPS costs for shipping your stolen warranty replacement to your broke-ass.

THAT IS WHY THE WARRANTY MAKES IT SO EXPENSIVE.

STOP STEALING AND MAYBE IN 2-3 YEARS TOP STICKS WILL ONLY BE $130 AGAIN.

(written in caps to try and speak the same e-language and writing in e-tard makes my head hurt more than reading it)

[Jason Harris 31]

It costs a lot less than $85 to manufacture a top end stick, although there are many more costs to add on top of that: freight, salaries and benefits, offices and warehouses, advertisements and promotions, tariffs (in Canada), warranties. Generally, the manufacturing costs for low end sticks is much less than high end sticks, so the difference in price is more due to the manufacturing costs than an attempt to create a "cash cow." What I mean by that is most manufacturers use formulas to create MSRP's, perhaps 3X or maybe even 4X COGS (cost of goods sold), so all the sticks should should have similar percentage differences in MSRP compared to COGS.

On the other hand, retailers get a lot higher markup than 10%. When I was selling to stores, I was giving a 40% discount off MSRP plus more for volume, while I heard the Big Boys were closer to 30% discounts plus more for volume. So, if a store is selling at MSRP, their $210 stick likely was sold to them at somewhere around $125 to $150 dollars. However, many stores sell below MSRP to compete against other retailers in the area, so they probably paid more. Before some people read all this and think it gives justification to defraud manufacturers and stores, let's consider the costs the stores have. They had to invest thousands of dollars to start their store, then pay rent, utilities, salaries, shipping and advertsising, then hope they have enough money left over to pay themselves a salary.

The point of all this, of course, is companies are in business to make a profit (usually 15% is what they shoot for by the end of the year). It's to all our advantages to have a decent LHS within driving distance, so we have to be willing to concede them some profit for the convenience they provide. After all, it's possible to buy sticks directly from the factories at a lot less money. The only catch is you need to buy at least 100 sticks of the same specs, and more likely 300 to 500 -- and they won't be guaranteed.

So anyone trying to rationalize that they deserve to be able to prematurely break sticks to "get their money's worth" or to "stick it to the man" is only making all of us pay a few extra dollars.

[mack 44]

...but it's supply and demand like Trump over here told us.

[TBLfan 25]

This is why we don't link MSH on the EMB.

The American public school system, ahhh.. turning out millions of idiots a day. Education/knowledge is a valueable tool, don't sleep soo much in class. Education would have benefitted you many times besides on the message board. For example, if your mom had the knowledge of how you might turn out, surely she would have swallowed and/or stayed out of the frat house that night. *sigh*

[cxo 0]

To half-ass bring it back to topic, my two cents on the breaking sticks is to also not leave them out of room-temperature when they aren't in use. My example: I bought 5 z-bubbles at one point. Left two in the basement that I wasn't going to use right away, during winter, and then used the other three as normal. I broke the blades on all three over time (took about 5-6 months), and had one cut a little too short on accident, so I took one of the still new ones out, put a blade on it, and broke it the same day. I'm not a big or strong person by any means, so I could only assume that being left in those conditions made them brittle. I'm not sure what you do with your sticks when you aren't using them but it could be a possible factor.

[TBLfan 25]

Or it could be that they were zbubbles. ;)

[li7039 0]

People wonder why pro stocks are cheaper. Your basically paying for 2 sticks instead one

[habsfan87 0]

stop using pro stocks and buy the regular sticks that have the warranty u end up getting 2 for the price of one just break it before the 30 days lol

So you break a less than 30 day old stick on purpose only to wait a couple weeks to recieve the same stick? No wonder they cost over $200 bux lol Unless you wanted to sell the replacement to get something else I don't see the point.

[ean 0]

stop using pro stocks and buy the regular sticks that have the warranty u end up getting 2 for the price of one just break it before the 30 days lol

So you break a less than 30 day old stick on purpose only to wait a couple weeks to recieve the same stick? No wonder they cost over $200 bux lol Unless you wanted to sell the replacement to get something else I don't see the point.

Not that I condone breaking OPS purposefully but I'm sure the high price of the stick is the cause for people breaking them intentionally and not vice versa. The reason the sticks cost so much is because people are willing to pay for them. In any case, I have little invested in this debate as I use woodies.

[TheBert 0]

i love how u don't think its supply and demand so ur saying easton doesn't realize that people will buy their s17 stealth regardless of price and can charge 200 for a stick cuz people have to buy a stick to play hockey its plain and simple the world revolves around supply and demand take a business class and find out lol

You've never taken a business class have you? Otherwise you wouldn't be pretending to understand how supply and demand actually works.

Here's a good start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

Give it a good read after you finish your ebonics homework.

[Thockey17 1]

You've never taken a business class have you? Otherwise you wouldn't be pretending to understand how supply and demand actually works.

Forget a business course, anyone with half a brain could tell you what supply and demand is.

Theres a real shortage of hockey sticks out there causing the MSRP to increase.

[Rustpot 1]

Theres a real shortage of hockey sticks out there causing the MSRP to increase.

I've only got 6, so I must be willing to pay more? Is that what you mean? (I really wonder if that's what he thinks)

I'm surprised Chadd hasn't chimed in to distribute any warnings/temp-bans/mod-approved statuses.

[cxo 0]

The bickering is over anyway.

Product is going to continue to get more expensive regardless of who abuses or doesn't abuse the warranties, what materials they use, or who flat out does or doesn't buy them.

How can you make a new top of the line stick and sell it for significantly less than your previous model?

[TBLfan 25]

It can be done but it's bad buisness. You get people wondering why this stick is soo much cheaper, must be a worse product.

How many people see a dolomite 2 sitting next to an Inno 1100 tapered shaft. See the price tag and buy the Dolo? You may be surprised. It's not their fault, you can't expect everyone to know what's what. More often than not, if something costs more, it's better. It's the way our world works and people have gotten used to it.

*This is normally the thought process of middle to high class, which is the typical hockey family's class.

[Jason Harris 31]

Forget a business course, anyone with half a brain could tell you what supply and demand is.

Theres a real shortage of hockey sticks out there causing the MSRP to increase.

You're right....but for the wrong reasons. The supply and demand affecting the cost of composite sticks is oil.

Oil is used in the production of composites and in the shipment of those products, so when the cost of crude oil is nearly three times what it was five years ago, the cost of production raises dramatically. Going back to companies using an X factor in determining their MSRP, let's say that they establish their MSRP as 3X COGS. Now let's say the cost of production raised by $5. Unless they are willing to lower their profit margin, it's obvious that a $5 increase in production leads to a $15 increase in MSRP.

[biff44 0]

Let me try to figure this out:

Cost of carbon fiber/kevlar for hockey stick: $5

Cost of resin: $6 (probably used to be $3 before oil prices shot up)

Cost of Paint: $1

Cost of labor in Mexico: $5

Transportation to North America: $3

So my guess of the true cost of a top composite stick: $20

The sell these things for $250, so assuming the distributor marks them up 100%, that means the factory sells them for $125. That is >600% profit.

So, the only question I have is why doesnt some manufacturer in China whack them out at half the price, and flood the market with $125 ones and make a >300% profit?????

Paying this much is just ludicrous!

[Jim A 4]

all I know is that my kid, if and when he shows up one day, will start with a wood stick (then move to a shaft/blade etc) and quality but not overblown gear as he grows up,

I used to love the people who came to buy a Vapor XXXX in a Yth 13, $200 OPS in a 55 flex, inquire about custom curves for the same kid.. great for the bottom line and why argue with them when its their $

Biff,

You have omitted the R&D, staffing, testing, marketing and everything else that goes into a launch, you might as well say that a mercedes cost of parts is only $5k so why isn't it 15k

hockey retail margins are about 30-35%...few are making more than a living in it..

[gxc999 7]

Let me try to figure this out:

Cost of carbon fiber/kevlar for hockey stick: $5

Cost of resin: $6 (probably used to be $3 before oil prices shot up)

Cost of Paint: $1

Cost of labor in Mexico: $5

Transportation to North America: $3

So my guess of the true cost of a top composite stick: $20

The sell these things for $250, so assuming the distributor marks them up 100%, that means the factory sells them for $125. That is >600% profit.

So, the only question I have is why doesnt some manufacturer in China whack them out at half the price, and flood the market with $125 ones and make a >300% profit?????

Paying this much is just ludicrous!

Not to get too far off topic, but you're exactly right. They are very highly profitable. However, few sticks ever sell at $250. I've never paid over $140 for a stick and never will, atleast not until 2020 or whenever the value of money has changed so much. Anyway, I think this is exactly what you're seeing more upstart companies selling sticks. Look at Compro, selling a high quality stick for $149 retail ($135 now, check icewarehouse.com), it's supposedly as good as the NBH one90 and made in the TPS factories.

[biff44 0]

Biff,

You have omitted the R&D, staffing, testing, marketing and everything else that goes into a launch, you might as well say that a mercedes cost of parts is only $5k so why isn't it 15k

Very true. But why do I need to pay for that? I am happy with the top of line sticks right now! If some China company is willing to reverse engineer one, and give me quality of at least 90% of what easton does, I would be perfectly happy!

We are supporters of a sport that more and more kids simply can not afford to play! Why do you have to pay >$1000 for a set of pads for a goalie, why do you have to pay $250 for a stick (sure a kid can play a wooden one, but what is a junior hockey player to do, work a month at mickeyD's every time he breaks a poorly designed Easton one?).

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

your retarded... is that better english for you jackass

CLASSIC. Way to go man, you got him good.

[TBLfan 25]

Again, looking at it with high school logic. There's R&D which costs a LOT to put out a better product every year. Advertising, facility costs(the plants that manufacter the product and head offices. Pro reps, reps, travel expenses. The list goes on and one... Then there's retailer markup. Retailers need to pay to stock their store, lights, A/C, morgage, etc...

Everyone gives crap to nike for their shoe prices. When I worked at TSA, I could see the price they paid(cost) and what it retailed at. Air max 180, cost $50. Retail $110.