Who said the reason Samsonov was good was Joe Thornton?

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

For those who were saying that, look at him play in the Carolina sweater, he really is playing great since his first game there.

I needed to make this thread because I feel Samsonov skills level has always been underated on this board.

[mack 44]

25 pts in 28 games is good, but not good enough to sway the many, many, many half-ass years he's had. I don't think anyone's questioned his skill because I think they question the application of his skills. I have a lot of talent of being nice, to put things into perspective.

[DarkStar50 679]

Just two great examples of how hard it can be to apply a talent. :P

It takes talent to get to the NHL. It what you do with it once you get there that makes the difference. I watched the St Louis Blues practice about 8 years ago. Even Tony Twist looked awesome in practice!

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

Are you kidding me, I went to a couple of open Habs pratice and not all of the guys look great in practice. Again, it's not everyone who has an eye to see skills. Some doesn't see skills much.

Just two great examples of how hard it can be to apply a talent. :P

It takes talent to get to the NHL. It what you do with it once you get there that makes the difference. I watched the St Louis Blues practice about 8 years ago. Even Tony Twist looked awesome in practice!

[DarkStar50 679]

No, I am not kidding you. The guy on the 4th line has enough talent to be in the NHL or otherwise he wouldn't be there. I have watched enough hockey, including CHL Jr A, to recognize talent, the prospects from the suspects. Maybe the guys you saw in practice who sucked were A. battling an injury or flu-bug(you would never know either) or B. still hung-over from the night before at Winston Churchill's on Peel St. I have been in Winnie's with many a Habitant getting hammered like it was Scene 1, Take 32 from Youngblood-line-up the shots on the bar boys!

[mack 44]

Like DS said, they're in the NHL so talent's there but if you go and waste it then what good is it? Samsonov has had some injury woes in his day, sure, but for the most part he just hasn't put it all together.

There are those that may not see talent but then there are those who see nothing but talent and go off that alone.

[gxc999 7]

I'm still not 100% convinced. Samsonov is seeing a ton of ice time on the top line and on the PP. What will really be an accurate measure are his scoring totals next season if he stays with them.

I admit, he has surprised me with his scoring thus far. Maybe his wrists are back to 100% this season, who knows...

[chippa13 1844]

I think the book on Samsonov is that he either has great chemistry with linemates or he has absolutely none. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground. If he isn't with someone that compliments his game then you may as well put a cone on the wing instead of Sammy because he'll just stick handle himself into a box and turn the puck over.

There are some in Boston who feel that Kessel may be the second coming of Samsonov, and not the one that gelled with Allison and Nylander.

Edit: As for the thread title, Thornton and Samsonov seldom played on the same line.

[habookus 1]

Watching Samsonov with Boston I always knew he had great talent; he's a great skater, great hands, decent shot, and extremely quick and shifty. Even in Montreal I knew he could do so much more, and it must have been tough on him as well because I'm sure he knew what he was capable of doing. I think he got thrust into good circumstances in Carolina and has finally found his game, good on him. Wish he could have found it in Mtl.

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

Go see Kovalev practice and comeback after, he makes others players look like pee wee. Go see Latendresse, he looks like a pee wee even in practice, many guys have hands of stone even in practice many guys are poor skater even in pratice and many have average shot. If you can't see that, there's something wrong with your vision of skills.

No, I am not kidding you. The guy on the 4th line has enough talent to be in the NHL or otherwise he wouldn't be there. I have watched enough hockey, including CHL Jr A, to recognize talent, the prospects from the suspects. Maybe the guys you saw in practice who sucked were A. battling an injury or flu-bug(you would never know either) or B. still hung-over from the night before at Winston Churchill's on Peel St. I have been in Winnie's with many a Habitant getting hammered like it was Scene 1, Take 32 from Youngblood-line-up the shots on the bar boys!

[chippa13 1844]

And I've heard tell that Peter Schaefer looks like Lemieux in practice. He still sucks.

[DEATHTRON 19]

They say big Brad "Im going score once before I die" Winchester is real good in practice too. Point being, all of those guys are good, theres good, and good-er.

Zach

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

Oh yeah this 180 lbs soaking wet guy who skate like a shit, I doubt he looks like Lemieux.

I'm going to assume what I say but I can say if you guys think every NHLers look good in practice then I affirm you guys can't see talent much...

And I've heard tell that Peter Schaefer looks like Lemieux in practice. He still sucks.

[chippa13 1844]

Oh yeah this 180 lbs soaking wet guy who skate like a shit, I doubt he looks like Lemieux.

And I've heard tell that Peter Schaefer looks like Lemieux in practice. He still sucks.

So I guess you've never seen him in practice.

[J-Shera 0]

Every player is talented in the NHL. Some a lot more then others. Ive heard stories of Derek Boogaard skating circles around guys who are fairly good players, ex-juniors(WHL,Junior A). Yet you put him in the nhl, and it seems like he cant even skate. Until you see him on the ice and wonder how a 6'7 270 pound big man can move so fast. Some players apply there talent every night (Ovechkin, Crosby) and some players pick and choose which nights they want to use it (Kovalev, Samsonov). Although Kovy's played great this season and Samsonov has picked it up in the last 20+ games.

[Hockeyman9621 0]

I will agree that Kovalev and Samsonov are both top 5 in the league skill wise... but some might say it's a skill to bring everything you have every night.

[DarkStar50 679]

Go see Kovalev practice and comeback after, he makes others players look like pee wee. Go see Latendresse, he looks like a pee wee even in practice, many guys have hands of stone even in practice many guys are poor skater even in pratice and many have average shot. If you can't see that, there's something wrong with your vision of skills.

No, I am not kidding you. The guy on the 4th line has enough talent to be in the NHL or otherwise he wouldn't be there. I have watched enough hockey, including CHL Jr A, to recognize talent, the prospects from the suspects. Maybe the guys you saw in practice who sucked were A. battling an injury or flu-bug(you would never know either) or B. still hung-over from the night before at Winston Churchill's on Peel St. I have been in Winnie's with many a Habitant getting hammered like it was Scene 1, Take 32 from Youngblood-line-up the shots on the bar boys!

I use the word talent and you are using the word skill. That is ok because there is a difference. I see all NHL players as having the talent to play in the NHL while not all NHL players bring the same skill set to play in the NHL. That is the difference from 1st line to 4th line, your skill set. Your brother has talent to play in the NHL, yes? But does he have the same skill set as Crosby or Kovalev, no.

[Karly14 21]

I've seen Scheafer practice many times, and yea he does look ok, mostly because he's trying lots of things like chipping the puck up on his backhand, hitting the puck out of the air etc..stuff that would rarely work in a real game. But like other players who might look good or liek shit in a practice, he's identified and embraced his role as boards guy/3rd line winger in the NHL. That's what lets him continue playing at the highest level possible. Look at a guy like Ryan Smyth, he probably looks brutal in practice, he can't skate, can't shoot, can't stickhandle but hes still really effective and can put the puck in the net (the opposite of Samsonov). I think I'm arguing for both sides because Kovy is right when he says there are guys in the NHL who can't skate or have no hands, but everybody else is also right when they say they're there for a reason. I've been on the ice with current NHLers who are even said to be skilled guys and in practice they don't really look that much better than anybody else.

[Patrick67 1]

A guy like Zherdev would look really good compared to the rest of us when he starts shooting wristers.

I've played shinny with AHL players and I can outskate and outdeke them(some of them), but they completely dominante along the boards based on pure strenght, and they shoot wristers just as hard as my slapshot.

[Karly14 21]

A guy like him would look really good compared to the rest of us when he starts shooting wristers.

He doesn't really, he's got a good shot for sure, but it nothing that would stick out in any decently high level of hockey. During a game though he's obviously way better at picking spots and getting them off then the rest of us.

[Kovy_Ribs_Fedo 3]

Good logic points there, exactly what I mean.

I've seen Scheafer practice many times, and yea he does look ok, mostly because he's trying lots of things like chipping the puck up on his backhand, hitting the puck out of the air etc..stuff that would rarely work in a real game. But like other players who might look good or liek shit in a practice, he's identified and embraced his role as boards guy/3rd line winger in the NHL. That's what lets him continue playing at the highest level possible. Look at a guy like Ryan Smyth, he probably looks brutal in practice, he can't skate, can't shoot, can't stickhandle but hes still really effective and can put the puck in the net (the opposite of Samsonov). I think I'm arguing for both sides because Kovy is right when he says there are guys in the NHL who can't skate or have no hands, but everybody else is also right when they say they're there for a reason. I've been on the ice with current NHLers who are even said to be skilled guys (Zherdev is a good example)and in practice they don't really look that much better than anybody else.

OK good, we are on the same page now...

Go see Kovalev practice and comeback after, he makes others players look like pee wee. Go see Latendresse, he looks like a pee wee even in practice, many guys have hands of stone even in practice many guys are poor skater even in pratice and many have average shot. If you can't see that, there's something wrong with your vision of skills.

No, I am not kidding you. The guy on the 4th line has enough talent to be in the NHL or otherwise he wouldn't be there. I have watched enough hockey, including CHL Jr A, to recognize talent, the prospects from the suspects. Maybe the guys you saw in practice who sucked were A. battling an injury or flu-bug(you would never know either) or B. still hung-over from the night before at Winston Churchill's on Peel St. I have been in Winnie's with many a Habitant getting hammered like it was Scene 1, Take 32 from Youngblood-line-up the shots on the bar boys!

I use the word talent and you are using the word skill. That is ok because there is a difference. I see all NHL players as having the talent to play in the NHL while not all NHL players bring the same skill set to play in the NHL. That is the difference from 1st line to 4th line, your skill set. Your brother has talent to play in the NHL, yes? But does he have the same skill set as Crosby or Kovalev, no.

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

i've seen a lot of Samsonov recently. He's definately getting into his groove. I really hope he stays, the systems run here fit him very well.

[Karly14 21]

nm

[Wolfpack_1986 154]

well, i mean in practice, Glen Wesley is a shoot out phenom. Glen friggen Wesley.

[DarkStar50 679]

In his prime, Guy Carbonneau had an unreal set of offensive skills. As #21 on the Canadiens, his job was to shut down the other team's top line. He did that job to perfection and never showcased his skills to score. He would have been an easy 30+ goal scorer but instead did the job asked of him. Now, rare is the player who sacrifices his offensive skill for the team game.