Blackstone Flat-Bottom V Thread

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

Excuse the mess.

Rigged this up last night - I was about to do it like mckjim did, but my dad saw it and was like "Why not link both exhausts?"

I'm going to clean the table up and see how much dust it is collecting. I did a few passes and the sparks went right down the port.

[mckjim 2]

Perfect! Great job. You might try to put in a small slit in the front tube to allow the blade to pass though as the wheel wears and it will give you more clearance. It will not affect the suction.

Jr, How did you get the picture to post directly on the message?

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

Thanks for the advice Jim -

Actually, it's hard to tell from the picture, but the whole side of the PVC that comes to the plate is cut in half. The ONLY problem that I foresee is that I'm going to have to make the long tube longer at some point - when I change the wheel.

I just did two sets of blades and the dust was minimal - especially on the final pass. Before this, I could see the dust flying (as sparks are much smaller on a final pass)

See that picture icon in your reply box? Right next to the smiley? Click on that and put the address of where the picture is hosted. Just make sure that the picture is of non-offensive size (1024x768 is the biggest that doesn't necessarily mess with the look)

[mckjim 2]

JR,

The resaon I used a 90 degree elbow on the tubing near the wheel was to get as large and opening as possible to collect as much dust. Also, I have found that putting "Fine Shine" or whatever cutting oil you want on the blade from the beginning makes the dust heavier and there is less missing the suction. It makes the dust heavier and easier for the vacuum to pick it up. A little more oil gets used, but a lot less dust accumulates. Safe sharpening!! and safer breathing now!

[True North 0]

Excuse the mess.

Rigged this up last night - I was about to do it like mckjim did, but my dad saw it and was like "Why not link both exhausts?"

I'm going to clean the table up and see how much dust it is collecting. I did a few passes and the sparks went right down the port.

Hey Jr

1) What diameter pipe did you use to connect to the rear exhaust into your X02

2) What did you use to step up to the diameter of your vacuum hose

Looks great, cheers

Edited June 1, 2010 by True North

[jbgordon 0]

I picked up a X-01 about 2 weeks ago. I just got it setup this past weekend, and have had no problems. I requested a 3/4" spinner instead of the 1/2" spinner that the machine came with, and they made the substitution without any hassle. I also ordered a 90/75 FBV spinner, but I haven't used it yet. I was also offered the upgraded holder for $100, and was quick to take that offer. Just looking at the holders on their website made it clear that it was a good value.

Never having sharpened a skate before, I've done mine a few times and had no problems. I may spend close to 10 minutes on my skates, so I'm certainly not quick, but I take my time, check my edges and get them level. So far, I've done them 3 times and have had NO problems.

One sharpening question though. I just do my skates (Graf Ultra G70s with Step steel), and there is a huge difference required in the holder for each of my skates...like 10-12 "clicks" difference between the 2 skates up and down. Since they are the same skate, same steel, shouldn't they be pretty darn close for each skate? It doesn't cause a problem, as I just take my time and get the holder adjusted, but I would think since the steel should be the same width, the height of the holder shouldn't need to change that much.

Is the upgraded holder the X-10 Consumer Holder or the X-12 Tri-Lie Holder? I'm going to buy an X01 in the next couple of days and was going to call about this upgraded holder offer, but wasn't sure if the holder that people were having problems with has been discontinued already and the Consumer Holder is the improved version.

[toddmanley 0]

As a guy new to hockey, I figured I'd share my experience since this seemed like the appropriate thread. I started out skating about 6 weeks ago on a new pair of CCM U+07's. These were initially sharpened with a 10' radius, 1/2" hollow (I hope I have these details right...still learning the lingo).

Since then I've been going to the rink about twice a week and making some good progress. However, I always felt like the skates had too much bite for me. So yesterday I tried out the 90/75 cut at East West Hockey (across the street here in San Jose from the Sharks Ice Center). My only input to the guy doing the work was that I wanted something with a bit less bite, thus his recommendation to go with the 90/75.

Once finished I went across the street and hit the rink. There was an immediate difference in my ability to stop. This had been a weakness of mine in the past; I used to feel like I was almost fighting with the skate to make it slide across the top of the ice when trying to stop. By the end of the session my confidence had grown tremendously. As I get better I may move to trying the 100/50 profile, but for now I'm enjoying the gains in my abilities just based on a different edge profile.

Had I not been able to do some research on this message board I probably never would have tried this out. Thanks!

[MLSman 22]

As I get better I may move to trying the 100/50 profile, but for now I'm enjoying the gains in my abilities just based on a different edge profile.

Hey bud...you might actually want to do the opposite. As your skills increase, the goal is not to go to a deeper hollow...it would make more sense to go to a shallower hollow. Shallow increases glide. The key is to find balance with the ability to turn and cut with increased glide. The challenge is to graduate from a 90/75 to a 90/50.

[SAK 2]

Hey bud...you might actually want to do the opposite. As your skills increase, the goal is not to go to a deeper hollow...it would make more sense to go to a shallower hollow. Shallow increases glide. The key is to find balance with the ability to turn and cut with increased glide. The challenge is to graduate from a 90/75 to a 90/50.

Actually that would not make any difference. The 90/50 has the same glide as the 100/50. The 90/50 has less bite angle and the 100/50 has more, all that would be affected is the transition and stability in the corners. The 100/50 while maintaing speed gives more bite which some players feel is an advantage for agility.

[rachael7 1]

Actually that would not make any difference. The 90/50 has the same glide as the 100/50. The 90/50 has less bite angle and the 100/50 has more, all that would be affected is the transition and stability in the corners. The 100/50 while maintaing speed gives more bite which some players feel is an advantage for agility.

100/50 certainly works well for me - I love that profile. It does feel a bit more like a 5/8 ROH than a 1/2 ROH, imo, but the transition was easy and the benefits very noticeable.

[MLSman 22]

Actually that would not make any difference. The 90/50 has the same glide as the 100/50. The 90/50 has less bite angle and the 100/50 has more, all that would be affected is the transition and stability in the corners. The 100/50 while maintaing speed gives more bite which some players feel is an advantage for agility.

Wait...I thought it would. He complained about the inability to stop. Would that be affected with a ROH with more bite? Why would he want to go to a deeper bite if the bite angle affects stopping? His issue was not about glide...it was about difficulties stopping. You know your stuff for sure...just looking for clarification of why a deeper bite would be advantageous vs working towards less bite. I was always under the impression with a traditional ROH that the goal was to graduate to a shallower hollow. Is this different with the FBV?

[jaahaa 0]

Hi Guys,

I am pulling my hair out trying to figure out why when I sharpen on the x01 I get 2 different readings on my guage. When I have the toe of skate pointed to me and check the level of the heal of the skate I get a good level reading. Then when I turn the heel of the skate towards me and place the gauge on the same spot on the heel I get a reading that is way of level. What gives? Is it the guage? The x01? The holder ? ( I have the upgraded pro model? Or me? Any help would greatly be appreciated!

http://picasaweb.google.ca/jaahaa99/Blueli...908855877450066

http://picasaweb.google.ca/jaahaa99/Blueli...908860271548018

[mckjim 2]

Is there a burr on the blade on either side, causing the reference part of guage to be off verticle? Is the blade itself bent and not truly giving a right angle reading?

[jaahaa 0]

No burr on the skate. As far as I can tell the blade is not bent. How can I tell if the blade is not bent? I have had this occurrence with many skates, not just mine. Thanks for your help

J

[Gummer12 134]

You don't need to turn the skate heel towards you..always do Toe towards you.

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

You don't need to turn the skate heel towards you..always do Toe towards you.

LOL I go toe down.

[Gummer12 134]

do you do Heel to toe right to left on your passes too?

[rachael7 1]

Hi Guys,

I am pulling my hair out trying to figure out why when I sharpen on the x01 I get 2 different readings on my guage. When I have the toe of skate pointed to me and check the level of the heal of the skate I get a good level reading. Then when I turn the heel of the skate towards me and place the gauge on the same spot on the heel I get a reading that is way of level. What gives? Is it the guage? The x01? The holder ? ( I have the upgraded pro model? Or me? Any help would greatly be appreciated!

http://picasaweb.google.ca/jaahaa99/Blueli...908855877450066

http://picasaweb.google.ca/jaahaa99/Blueli...908860271548018

When getting different readings on each side, check these things, in my personal estimated order of likelihood:

1. Burr. Yeah, I know you said you checked it. It can't hurt to check again.

2. Metal particles stuck to magnets on gauge. Always annoying and happens a lot. Will totally fork a reading.

3. Metal particles on blade. Wipe the blade with a rag before checking. Ground off particles often become magnetic and can annoyingly stick in place sometimes.

4. Grooves worn into contact faces of gauge from repeated applications to sharp blades.

What you've probably got is one of those four things screwing up your reading and the true reading is quite possibly between what you're seeing on each measurement. Definitely figure out why your reading is screwed though and don't accept it until the reading from each direction is pretty darn close. Sometimes you can even see that the part that sticks to the side of the blade isn't sitting flat - that's an immediate clue that you've got a particle stuck to the magnet or the blade.

[jaahaa 0]

Thanks for the info guys I have no burrs, fresh tape on bottom of gauge. No marks on the gauge itself. Any other suggestions??

TIA

J

[JR Boucicaut 3795]

do you do Heel to toe right to left on your passes too?

I go toe out, so when I make my passes I hit the toe radius first. When I check on the quick square, toe is down.

[rachael7 1]

Thanks for the info guys I have no burrs, fresh tape on bottom of gauge. No marks on the gauge itself. Any other suggestions??

TIA

J

Well, defective gauge is always a possibility. Have you tried another?

[mckjim 2]

The design of that type of gauge depends on certain absolutes:

1. The gauges parts have not been bent and are true, especially where contacting the blade. Both the top piece on the edges of the blade and the magnetic pickup reference portion.

2. That the blade you are testing is not bent on any axis being referenced.

3. There is no debris of any kind on the gauge parts or the blade. This would mean burrs, imperfections, steel grit, or dirt of any kind.

Have you checked any other skates to see if this problem is unique to your skate blade only?

The theory of this type of gauge is that it should not matter what direction the gauge is mounted, it should read the same, unless one of the absolutes for its effectiveness are changed.

The only other possibility I can think of is, the bottom of the gauge hitting the plastic holder, or a defect, scrape, gouge or imperfection of the plastic on one side of the skate and not the other. Anything that cause the gauge to contact the steel differently could cause it to be ineffective.

If there is no defects in the plastic holder, then please check other skate blades and see if you get the same result. If the result repeats on other skate blades then the gauge must be defective.

[SAK 2]

Wait...I thought it would. He complained about the inability to stop. Would that be affected with a ROH with more bite? Why would he want to go to a deeper bite if the bite angle affects stopping? His issue was not about glide...it was about difficulties stopping. You know your stuff for sure...just looking for clarification of why a deeper bite would be advantageous vs working towards less bite. I was always under the impression with a traditional ROH that the goal was to graduate to a shallower hollow. Is this different with the FBV?

What makes Flat Bottom V so cool is it is not about "deeper" or "shallow" we just change the bite angle. Orriginally the first thing we thought of was what our compitition is doing right now and that was to make the radi flat. We ran into a lot of issues with it as they probably are finding out by now. With the angles we can adjust by degrees which opens up so much more possibilities and effects the bite angle, release (when you transition from stop to start) and a host of other's that we are still discovering through research from the University of Ottawa. So what it comes down to is 100/50 is no deeper than 90/50 its just a different bite angle. Your freind is going with less bite, the degree on a 90/50 is less than on a 100/50. His speed will remain the same however he will not have as much agility as if he were on the 100/50.

Hi Guys,

I am pulling my hair out trying to figure out why when I sharpen on the x01 I get 2 different readings on my guage. When I have the toe of skate pointed to me and check the level of the heal of the skate I get a good level reading. Then when I turn the heel of the skate towards me and place the gauge on the same spot on the heel I get a reading that is way of level. What gives? Is it the guage? The x01? The holder ? ( I have the upgraded pro model? Or me? Any help would greatly be appreciated!

http://picasaweb.google.ca/jaahaa99/Blueli...908855877450066

http://picasaweb.google.ca/jaahaa99/Blueli...908860271548018

I would go with blade thickness, bent blade, or you are putting some sort of preasure on the boot. If you can get one skate you should have no problem getting the other. don't be afraid to adjust the holder, that's what they are there for. Looks like a couple of clicks and you should be fine.

[jimmy 194]

A spec of dust can throw off a gauge by 1/1000" or more, same for a little wax on the side of the steel. When you say way off, how much do you mean? If you are within 1-2/1000" it's unlikely it can be felt or noticed on the ice.

[jaahaa 0]

Sak,

Thanks for your input, I am a little confused when you say blade thickness, just to clarify the picture is from the same skate, the only difference between the 2 pictures is 1 picture is with the toe pointed to the camera and the other picture is with the heel pointed to camera. The gauge is on the same spot on the heel of the blade.

Cheers

J