Skates TOO high tech for NHL

[Viking 1]

so does that mean that the shoes or the turf is too high tech for football players?

Astroturf causes alot more knee injuries than grass.

Really should be "caused". I don't know of any major venue that still uses Astroturf.

I got to walk on the field at Skydome a couple of weeks ago, and the new non-Astro turf still feels pretty hard - noticeably a fair bit harder than a grass field.

... Not that that's really the point of this thread... I don't think it's just this year, or just the Montreal Canadiens that are having a lot of these types of injuries. The skating motion is naturally conducive to injuries to the hip and groin. Doing it at a faster speed makes injuries much more likely. Regardless of the type of skate they're using (and plenty of them buy the same high end skates as NHL players) , I don't know many adult rec hockey players who suffer from frequent groin and hip injuries the way NHL players do. Since skaters are faster now than they were 20 years ago, it makes sense that they are naturally more likely to injure their groins.

[fultonreed 1]

dr. Jack blatherwick highly endorses slideboard training to prevent groin injuries

[ktang 34]

so does that mean that the shoes or the turf is too high tech for football players?

Astroturf causes alot more knee injuries than grass.

Really should be "caused". I don't know of any major venue that still uses Astroturf.

I remember a debate on another forum a while back where somebody mentioned that the switch to plastic holders rather than tube skates changed skating styles that have led to all kinds of knee and back problems. I forget the rationale behind it, but it looked sound. Anybody have anything to add on that?

When everybody was switching from metal tube to plastic holders, our old-school coaches were saying that there would be more ankle fractures because the holders would not bend when players hit the boards feet-first. But, they didn't want us using curved blades, either...

[shooter27 116]

Having never skated on tube skates I have to ask - Have plastic holders really made that much differece in skating ability? Couldn't we put modern athletes on modern boots with tube blades and have them be just as powerful and agile or were the tube blades really that limited?

[DarkStar50 679]

The first advantage to Tuuk 2000(original name) holders was the weight reduction. I had tubular steel runners on my Bauer Supreme 91 and CCM Super Tacks. The difference in weight was noticeable. I have my CCM Super Tacks boots from 1972. I had tubular steel and put the Tuuk 2000 holders in 1976 or 77. The second advantage was that now Tuuk steel was stainless. The tubular steel blades were carbon. The carbon sharpened great but didn't hold an edge too long. Carbon would also rust easily. The Tuuk 2000 holder was a hard polycarbonate that was brittle. We did a lot of repairs to cracked holders in those days. The next generation Tuuk was more durable.

Today's NHLer could get around the rink on tubular steel, no doubt. However, he would feel the difference in weight which would have to factor in late in the game. The Tuuk holder is also more forgiving. Tubular steel was a rock, there was nothing to transmit or drive energy to the ice. This is a great question you have brought up. Sadly, I am old enough to answer it! :lol:

[shooter27 116]

Thats interesting, I hadn't thought about the weight aspect of it. I'm not quite sure what you mean by plastic holders being more forgiving? Do you mean in terms of allowing skaters to recover from bad movements easier?

I also wonder how these two types of holders would compare when it comes to torsional forces applied by turning and stopping. I would think the plastic holders would have more flex, but what advantages/disadvantages does the flexibility produce? I know when Easton came out with the parabolic runner one of the marketing pieces talked about how the blades would flex and make it easier to keep speed through turns. Would the same effect be apparent when going from a tube blade to a plastic holder or is it just marketing hype?

[mattopiela 0]

There is something to it for sure. When I was in one90's and one95's i often had slight groin pains...after I switched to Vapor xxxx which are stiff but become softer with wear...i can't even recall the last time my groin hurt.

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

The boot pitches aren't the same, there went your theory.

[Hudson14 0]

this is nonsense it's just some conservative hockey minded coach wining that all his players are hurt and is looking for a scapegoat

[mattopiela 0]

The boot pitches aren't the same, there went your theory.

i didn't call a theory just an opinion ... and you can talk about pitches all you want but a tweak from a very stiff skate can cause way more damage then a tweak from a skate that actually gives

[w0ahitsm3 0]

I think you cant really put all the blame on the stiffness of the skates. Since i mean, the players are able to choose what they wear right? And if I remember correctly, stiffness is also a custom option when they're made. So i see it as if these players are truly getting more injuries due to stiff skates, its simply a price they must pay from the benefits they do gain performance wise.

[JR Boucicaut 3804]

75% of NHLers are getting retail stiffness.

[DarkStar50 679]

Blame the skates? What about muscle fatigue, not enough recovery time, crappy diet(some guys still eat like they are on the bus in Jr), improper warm-up routines, and finally, hey maybe they are catching their blades on ruts in the ice? What about the other 29 teams in the league? Where is the chorus of the groin injuries from them? Can't they make ice in Montreal? That's weird!

[Jordan 13]

I think that you can also add the very nature of pro hockey. Very big, very fast men who have to start and stop and cut abrubtly. Aggravated by the fact that training camp is quite different from the season. They train to do a series 30-45 second sprints, with the average player getting maybe 8-10 minutes/game (some more, some less); while in camp they log a lot of ice.

Further, for a lot of these guys camp is when they fight for their livelihood. Not surprising that sometimes they push a little too hard.

If you watch an old vintage game from 30 years ago, it was sooooo much slower; back then they also came to training camp to get into shape. It was very different. My own opinion about the skates is that there would just as many injuries today on tube skates, although the nature of those injures may be slightly different - perhaps more ankle injuries, less groin etc.

[interpathway 9]

I'd blame ice conditions and inactivity before the boots.

+1

[Chadd 916]

With softer boots you would see more ankle injuries on bad ice instead of everything being higher up the leg. In a sense, yes, the boots are causing more groin injuries than in the past but they are also reducing the number of ankle injuries. In the end it's a wash, or even a reduction, on the total number of injuries but they are now more focused than in the past.

[sebseb 0]

the skates have nothing to do with the injuries of one team out of 30. come on now, it's not rocket science, if you don't do a proper warm up u can expect strains, groin injuries, muscle problems and such. the one to blame is the physical trainer and the coach. all of them are pros, they are getting payed for playing and that makes the trainer more responsible to keep his players in top shape, not with injuries from training camps.

the game is played harder and faster than 30 years ago, everything evolves, but here we are talking about injuries that occured in a training camp not in a game, which i think says a lot about how responsible the training staff is with taking care of his players

[jds 20]

So what sort of game is Guy Carbonneau playing since he is the one spouting this BS? I can see some clown sports writer dreaming this up on a slow day but for a head coach to make this claim......Maybe a case of "In my day...." getting out of hand.

[Chadd 916]

the skates have nothing to do with the injuries of one team out of 30.

You're absolutely right, though the primary cause is the bad ice. There have been more groin and abdominal injuries over the last 8-10 years than in the past though. Something is causing an increase in those specific injuries.

[VakarLajos 5]

the skates have nothing to do with the injuries of one team out of 30.

You're absolutely right, though the primary cause is the bad ice. There have been more groin and abdominal injuries over the last 8-10 years than in the past though. Something is causing an increase in those specific injuries.

With goalies, groin injuries might be related to butterfly technique as opposed to stand-up. Add in being bigger, stronger, faster, and it's no wonder they have the groin problems they do.

[sebseb 0]

the skates have nothing to do with the injuries of one team out of 30.

You're absolutely right, though the primary cause is the bad ice. There have been more groin and abdominal injuries over the last 8-10 years than in the past though. Something is causing an increase in those specific injuries.

i think this has something to do that in sport the bar is raised every year. every sport gets faster, stronger etc, and the human body is starting to reach it's limits. the equipement is designed to increase everything in hockey, that icludes protection, so i really don't think it's the equipement's fault for the injuries, that includes skates. i am sure that if they would play at this level with the equipement of the, 60s-70s, there would be not only more injuries, but retirements due to injuries. you would have guys in comas from head injurys on a daylie basis, not to mention broken bones

and about the ice, i'm sure it's better than 30 years ago. ask darkstar, he knows his sh*t

[Chadd 916]

the skates have nothing to do with the injuries of one team out of 30.

You're absolutely right, though the primary cause is the bad ice. There have been more groin and abdominal injuries over the last 8-10 years than in the past though. Something is causing an increase in those specific injuries.

i think this has something to do that in sport the bar is raised every year. every sport gets faster, stronger etc, and the human body is starting to reach it's limits. the equipement is designed to increase everything in hockey, that icludes protection, so i really don't think it's the equipement's fault for the injuries, that includes skates. i am sure that if they would play at this level with the equipement of the, 60s-70s, there would be not only more injuries, but retirements due to injuries. you would have guys in comas from head injurys on a daylie basis, not to mention broken bones

and about the ice, i'm sure it's better than 30 years ago. ask darkstar, he knows his sh*t

You're still missing the point badly.

[SuperMan3 1]

Are you trying to say that Chelios in his pre-80 gear would get injuries every year cause his equipment isn't good enough?

[bruins4777 1]

75% of NHLers are getting retail stiffness.

And about the same percentage of them don't know what's good for them or use improper equipment, that’s why they play on 2,3, 4 lines.

Cheers

really

[Chadd 916]

75% of NHLers are getting retail stiffness.

And about the same percentage of them don't know what's good for them or use improper equipment, that's why they play on 2,3, 4 lines.

Cheers

really

He likes making outrageous statements like that to see who will take his bait.